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Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    Cillian Burke & G o Sullivan the only bright sparks. The management are not up to it at this level. Dara Moynihan picked game after game is a sackable offence!! While D Clifford has the skills he doesn't have the brain to help his game, his positioning is awful and he has proved time and time again that he is not clinical enough when it comes to big games. Jack needs to bring in coaches and tactical coaches from other counties as again we have proved we are not up to scratch in the modern game. D O Connor needs to be dropped from the panel along with Moynihan & T Brosnan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭Forge83


    David Clifford is positioning himself where he is told. It was fairly obvious tonight that he was instructed to stay near the box. High ball after high ball kicked in. Before Jack was appointed it was well discussed that his tactical knowledge of the modern game was poor. Paddy Tally’s defensive work at the time won them an All Ireland. With Morley only back and Breen plus Beaglaoich injured, our defence is gone back to being terrible and amplifying Jacks tactical ineptitude. As for outside coaches, please stop, we have plenty top coaches within the county. If I was Jack I’d be making a phone call to Eamon Fitzmaurice tomorrow morning. While I never liked him as a manager, his knowledge of the modern game is one of the best in the country and would be a huge addition.If going outside the county for a forwards coach, I wonder could Peter Canavan be tempted 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    Relax lads its a league game in February... if im correct didnt we get a hiding from Mayo last year in Castlebar.... yet come summer we were only a kick away from winning all-ireland... an all ireland that was thrown away.... a bad habit that we have gotten into since the start of this millenium... we threw away 2002 v armagh, 2008 v tyrone, 2011 v dublin, 2019 v dublin and 2023 v dublin... with 2011 and 2023 being the worst though 2002 isnt far behind...

    i personally am not worried bout that defeat tonight... i think you learn alot more in defeat than you do when you win... Kerry will learn alot from tonights game... and hopefully we will see the graph start to rise when the clocks go forward and summer football kicks off...



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭Danny healy ray


    too right lad that league is a joke roll on next summer



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭wonga77


    They should bring you into the management setup. You seem to have all the answers



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    is Paddy Tally gone from the setup?? Defence is definitely gone to pot.... its the lack of desire/hunger/passion thats lacking that worries me... are our lads afraid to tackle opposition players... we just do not play on the edge like the Limerick hurlers do or the Kilkenny hurlers did in the 00's or even the Kerry team in the 00's.. Paul Galvin, Declan Sullivan, Aidan Mahony, Darragh Se, Tomas Se.. lost count of the number of games those lads were lucky not to be sent off in... we do not have players that play on the edge like them boys did...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Rosita


    You're misguidedly trying to rewrite reality about thrown away All Irelands. In 2002 the second half score was Armagh 1-5 Kerry 0-3, 2008 second half Tyrone 1-8 Kerry 0-6, 2019 second half Dublin 1-8 Kerry 0-5. All fairly emphatic margins over more than 35 minutes of football.

    There might be an argument about 2011 that if Kerry had been more controlled it was there for the winning, but let's be honest, if Kerry had come from 4 points down to outscore Dublin 1-3 to 0-1 in the last ten minutes of a final they'd hardly say Dublin threw it away.

    Likewise the 2023 final was there to be won at 1-13 apiece in the final minutes and it was Dublin who got the clutch scores which is what happens in close matches sometimes where one team presses on and gets the critical scores. Same thing happened Dublin v Mayo in 2017. It doesn't mean that match was thrown away. Sometimes very good/great teams are defined by the ability to get these scores when the real pressure is on in the way the Dublin's 14 men also got the equaliser (under the most intense psychological circumstances with history at stake) against Kerry in the drawn final in 2019. Would Kerry have had the ability to survive that final for so long a man down and come up with such a high pressure score to level it?

    The only final of those you mention where Kerry were fairly clearly good enough to have won if they'd managed the game better was 2011 as they had a winning lead late on but even allowing that they were well outscored late on. In 2002, while the margin was very tight, Kerry were out fought and outplayed in the second half by Armagh who should get credit for coming from 4 points down at half time to win (and even took the hit of missing a penalty).

    Don't torment yourself about thrown away All Irelands by Kerry. They haven't really lost one they definitely should have won since 1982. They did all the heavy lifting that day coming from 3 down at half time to go 4 points up and missed a penalty as well. That one was well and truly blown big time. None since that though.

    Kerry have the misfortune to have been such a great football county that even when not having a vintage team themselves they are very often still good enough to be around when various other counties produce their exceptional teams.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,409 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Couldnt agree with 2019. They just about held on against a 14 man Dublin who dominated them in the last 10 mins of that game and were easily the better team in the replay.

    No doubt whatsoever that the best team in the country won the AI that year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    No I'm not rewriting anything... they were thrown away.. kerry were thumped in 05 by Tyrone and well beaten by Dublin 2015... you are referring to replay v Dublin in 2019.. kerry well beaten that day... drawn match was one kerry left behind.. Dublin left plenty games behind them too back in the day... should have beaten meath a couple times but were caught... it happens all teams.. but im just worried bout matches involving Kerry



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,409 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Your 2019 half time was the replay. I imagine that while I dont agree with the poster about Kerry throwing it away, the poster was talking about the drawn game where Dublin were 3 or 4 ahead at HT.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    D Clifford's positioning is his own decision mostly, he has been given too much leeway from Keane & O' Connor, he has kicked away important games as well. Spectacular at times but unlike Con o Callaghan he is not clinical enough when it counts most. WE need outside coaches because it is plain to see the players are not shifting through the gears and there are no tactics. Fitzmaurice may have knowledge but he sucked as a coach at this level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    Couldn't get over how poor Kerry as a team was tonight defensively. It's been said that was the biggest score Kerry ever conceded in a league game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,376 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Kerry were stuck to the ground tonight. They were lethargic last week as well and just about got over the line against Mayo.

    The league nowadays seems to be a balancing act. You have to balance training with matches. Jack was sitting up in the stand for a lot of the match disinterested. His decision on substitution's seem to indicate he was agnostic about wining the match not like last week.

    However except for that 15-20 minute period after half time we were nothing the match. Even against Derry with a lot of inexperienced players we put up a better performance.

    This was a game Dublin had to win, they away to Derry and Galway the next two weekends and have Tyrone at home for the final game. We have Roscommon away and Tyrone and Galway at home. Completely different run it's.

    You would have expected Adrian and Connor Geany to be bought on if he was really interested in winning. No sign of SoB, Killian Spillane or O'Bealoigh tonight, they cannot all be injured IMO.

    However it was still a poor enough display. Disappointing for the fans that travelled. The other problem is it makes it harder to make the league final, Derry have one step in it we are part of a contingent that all could make it. We really need that game this year

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Rosita


    The poster had not mentioned the drawn game in the post I replied to so I had no way of knowing that. In any event that doesn't hold water either. Dublin had 14 men for most of the game and Kerry still didn't lead until late on and couldn't hold it. Rather than "throwing it away" they briefly had a chance to pull off an unlikely win because of circumstances.

    If you need the half time score in the 2019 drawn game it was 1-10 to 0-9 for Dublin. With 15 men for the second half, and enjoying that half time lead, Dublin would likely have won by a similar margin to the replay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    It's only 2 years ago kerry went thru league and champ and only conceded was it 1 or 2 goals the whole year... where did defensive masterclasses put on that year disappear off to??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭thesultan


    Gooch needs yo show Clifford how to.finish one on one..



  • Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭Forge83


    You are delusional. Clifford was clearly instructed yesterday to stay close to the square at all times. He made hardly any runs to the wings which he normally does. If you couldn’t see that then you clearly have no ability to read a game. Look at all the high balls that were kicked in! Clearly discussed and planned by the management team. He may not have been clinical and that’s 100% on him, but questioning his positioning is ridiculous. I suppose his positioning for kicking the winning point last week was poor too.

    Again showing your complete lack of football knowledge on Fitzmaurice, he has never coached Kerry. He was the manager. They are two seperate positions. He has shown with his commentary that his ability to read the tactics of a game are unrivalled, this knowledge alone would be a huge benefit to the current set up.

    I wonder sometimes if you are just a wind up merchant or you actually believe what you post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    He has shown with his commentary that his ability to read tactics of a game are unrivalled. You call me delusional yet you come out with this lol.

    Fitzmaurice's team's were badly coached, his management skills were worse.

    2019 AI & Replay, 2020 Cork game, Tyrone 2021, 2023 AI and yesterdays game Clifford has misfired and his positional play has been mostly poor. This is his 8th year playing at the top level yet only one good display in a game when it counts 2023 AI. He is a great talent but he has been badly coached and given too much leeway. Thats why I want better coaches brought in to get the most out of Clifford and the team in general. Just look at the talent S 0 Brien had in the beginning and look at how he turned out. James o Donaghue & Declan o Sullivan were better forwards overall than Clifford is, yes Clifford has the spectacular and the skills but those two I mentioned produced in their game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    Cooper a better finisher than Clifford for sure, had composure under pressure. Clifford is going for glory every time. His pot-shots and monster kicking and lack of composure is getting more erratic. His positioning is naive at times as well. While a great talent he is not improving his game and a proper coach needs to be brought in who is not in awe of him and gets him to knuckle down on the nut's & bolt's of the game.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,376 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I would not rate Cooper to Clifford. Cooper had significant failing in big matches. He had way better players around him than Clifford has.

    Of the present team only Foley, Graham O'Sullivian, and the two Clifford's would be in with a shout of making the noughties team. Foley and DC would have been the best additions.

    Gooch had the best big strong type full forward we ever had in Donoghy beside him. He had Declan O Sullivan at CF along with Paul Galvin and Donnach Walsh.

    In defence he had Aidan O Mahoney, the O'Sheas, Tom Mccarthy, Seamus Moynihan and the real Tom O Sullivian.

    We have not had a dominant MF since Darragh O'Se.

    If I wanted anyone back to get involved in the Team it might be Kieran Donoghy to put a bit of bite and bollax into the players. Very few of the present team play on the edge, Duarmuid O'Connor would have been eaten alive by Darragh in a match even towards the end of his career not to mind in his heyday

    We are missing Jack Barry, Fenton and O'Cofaigh Byrne woukd not have ruled the roost if he was there last night. David Clifford is missing the blocking run he made to get David free. I knew we would miss him but not by as much as we do.

    Yes I think Clifford is taking a few pot shots, but I am more annoyed by the choices he is making for some of his goal chances, he be better off putting the ball over the bar.

    Jack choice of a sideline panel last night was a bit strange. There are two players if we lose we will not be at the races this year and that is DC and Shane Ryan. I cannot believe we have not sourced another goalie.

    On the forwards we have to hope that Cillian Burke comes through fast and Dylan Geany improves as well. We had to replace of the backs and our structure collapsed.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭beeker1


    They must have played minus a goalie !!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    Cooper was better one on one with keepers, scored important goals in AI Finals, a better footballing brain. He was finished as a top forward after 2011, there were games that yes he should have influenced more but overall he was more clinical than Clifford.

    I want to see Donaghy as a future manager with a professional set-up around him like Gavin & Farrell and now Harte at Derry. Donaghy has the force of personality and and has the required backbone to get in players ears, he has walked the walk on the pitch and wouldn't be afraid to tell Clifford that. He is also learning the dark arts in Armagh that Kerry teams badly needs.

    Clifford is turning into a youtube footballer at this stage with his Hollywood attempts. He needs to be brought down to earth fast..he doesn't need other players when he is one on one with keepers or when he is kicking for scores, that is down to him alone and he is responsible for his easy misses.

    Cillain Burke showed no fear last night and was creative in a big game, will be a very good player for us, D Geaney is another good prospect, shows composure kicking points and has a good eye for a pass on him.

    Diamuid O Connor, Dara Moynihan need to follow M Burns out of the panel. Just not good enough at this level after 6 years.

    Jack O Connor needs ASAP to bring in player coaches and tactical coaches for the summer as clearly the current set up is not remotely up to scratch at this level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭wonga77


    Your dislike for Clifford makes you hard to take seriously tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭tom23


    Jaysus, yis seem to 'throwaway' a lot of matches... So Kerry dont loose matches...? just throw them away like a pair of old Penneys jeans? Is that it? theres help for that I'm sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭thesultan


    I too am on about Cliffords goal attempts.. Final.last year against Dublin cutting in on the Davin end and blasts wide. Shot the other night blasts over.

    He is relying too mich on power and not accuracy.

    Post edited by thesultan on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    Whether the Gooch was a better footballer or not then Clifford I couldn't answer... but Gooch definitely was a better finisher... when he was one on one with a keeper he was cool and calm in the way he would practically pass the ball into the net... David can be a bit wild close to goal...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭tom23


    Yer asking why Clifford is wild close to goal and why Gooch was a better operator? Gooch was a great player in a great Kerry team. He had an incredible supporting cast. Clifford is carrying far too much pressure, not helped been declared the best player of all time by Media and supporters alike. This Kerry tream is no where near the level that Gooches peak Kerry team was. There was less pressure on Gooch. Far too much on Clifford imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    I want Clifford to be at his best as it is best for Kerry, as I said he has talent to burn but he has bad habits in his game that are proving costly for the team. This glorification of him by supporters & media is not good for the team. His brother Paudie plays for the team more. David is too easily rattled mentally especially by Dublin and resorts to erratic shooting & play. All he has to do is do the simple things well under pressure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Piskin


    Cooper had pressure on him the same as Clifford has by supporters & media, " the greatest to play the game" etc. Fact is Cooper was more clinical than Clifford in scoring, that is down to individual skill & composure not other teammates.



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