Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dutch Freedom Party wins general election. *Read OP before posting*

Options
1567810

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭TokTik


    The result was democracy. The government are there to represent the people, not lecture or nanny them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,499 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I think Churchill ( a despicable human being by all accounts) is credited with the memorable quote that the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an ordinary voter. I'd argue that the best argument against the EU is a 5 minute conversation with a EUphile - and I say that as someone who believes the EU - or something like it - must exist for Europe and Europeans to thrive, and believes Brexit was the wrong answer to the right question. As the ordinary UK voters who voted for Brexit have found out to their dismay post-Brexit, they weren't locked into to the EU. They were locked into the London political class.

    The EU is so incredibly popular with the desperately unpopular neoliberal types in each country because they believe that in alliance with their fellows they can create a set of "facts on the ground" enforced by international and EU treaties that ends domestic politics. The end of history as it were. Whoever is elected, whatever their manifesto - they will be obliged to comply with the neoliberal realities imposed by an EU framework that dominates every EU member state. There will be no more debates about the direction a country should take, merely at what speed the journey should occur at.

    I don't agree with Brexit, but it's wholly unrealistic that you can have a technocratic system and democratic legitimacy. Pick one. EUphiles will always side with technocracy. Every time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,110 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Have a look at who is cheerleading for Wilders. Why are they so keen to see the breakup of the EU?




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Serious question and not a dig, but are you able to write sentences and paragraphs without this "....." interspersed.

    Most of the above post is random gibberish anyway but the "...." make it impossible to follow



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,499 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I'm tempted to try find an EU voting constituency map for Russia with Moscow, 0 votes. St Petersburg, 0 votes, Kazan, 0 votes and so on. At some point EUphiles have to confront the reality that it is ordinary voters in the EU that are voting this way, right? They're not all Russian agents.

    I don't want to see the breakup of the EU - but if the EU wont change to reflect the will of the people, then it will break.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,110 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But why would Russia want to see the the rise of a party like Widers' one? What's in it for them? They can't be punching the air with delight for no reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Alexander Shulgin


    It's only Putin ,the GB news hypocrites like Halligan who availed of an Irish passport & Rees. Moog who moved a portion of his Somerset Capital to the IFSC , Italy while under Meloni would never leave the EU just look at their bond spreads , its pure populism , even Mary Lou who went to palo alto to reassure yank investment knows the EU is the cornerstone of our economy ! I just hope their slide continues, the snowflakes realise they're truly wolves in sheep's clothes, Rip Paul Quinn , Robert McCartney and all those who stood up to as Mary Lou called "good republicans" , like Slab Murphy , never worked a day in his life but holiday homes & big cars ! As for women , look at their treatment of Maria Cahill , the Sinn Fein propaganda puts Russia Today another slick operation in the ha'penny place !



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The EU remains overwhelmingly popular, including in the Netherlands.

    A Nexit poll is incredibly unlikely to take place - none of the potential coalition partners would support it - but even then it would be a giant waste of time and fail miserably.

    The likes of the PVV are popular for a variey of reasons and much of it is to do with disaffection. However, outside of the UK, no one else seems uninformed enough to think that disaffection is as a result of being in the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,499 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    What difference does it make? Where are you going with this line of thinking?

    I noted it previously - people would rather engage in conspiracy theories than face up to the reality that Dutch voters are responding more to 30-40 years of neoliberal/progressive policies than they are to Russian secret agents.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Because he's seen as friendly to Russia. Disorder among the EU will hinder any more help for Ukraine.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,110 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Irish Eurosceptics are nearly forgetting that the Netherlands were one of the six founding members of the EEC in 1958. It's their project....they are hardly going to try and destroy the very thing they created. The Brits could use the excuse of being outsiders when they took off in 2016 : this was how Farage & Co. could invent the narrative of it being a dictatorship that was oppressing them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I don't think you're looking at it the right way. I've applied for work there so I've done some research. They've a serious housing crisis, even by normal European standards. Bread and butter will trump (pardon the pun) any sentimentality about being founding members of the EU. Just existing in a European city these days is bloody expensive and governments across the board refuse to stand up to NIMBYs and invest in infrastructure, green energy and housing.

    I lived through Brexit. Stoolies like Farage just cynically exploited austerity and the migration crisis to hammer home their corrupt capitalist project. As much as I enjoy the sight of the puce-faced Muslamic Ray Guns brigade losing their fragile little minds over immigration being at an all time high, it's not worth it. Wilders is simply an agent of corrupt capital. He couldn't care less about Dutch people.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭TokTik


    I love the way people use a man, who was proven right, look at Rotherham, Huddersfield, Rochdale, Newcastle etc as some sort of meme.

    I’d suggest watching BBCs excellent drama Three Girls, which used some of the actual court records to see how Muslimic (sic) rape gangs destroyed so many lives in the U.K. rather than using it as some sort of joke. Thousands of real lives ruined and used by people like you as a throwaway line as if they don’t matter. If someone did the same about the Magdalene’s you’d probably lose your sh1t.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    It's obvious why, anything that destabilises European unity is a cause for celebration in Moscow. The more pertinent question should be. 'Why is the EU persisting with policies that are driving European electorates further into the hands of the far right to the point that Moscow is cheering?'

    They seem to have so little self reflection that they have become the epitome of the meme:




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭weisses


    Wilders just put forward a gay, left politician to spearhead the search for a coalition to govern



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭weisses


    Yeah... problem is that Wilders is not the only one looking to drastically reduce migration ..NSC an the VVD hold the same view, heck even the previous government collapsed because the migration policy wasn't strict enough according to the VVD.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    According to the VVD. The last government collapsed due to a scandal so they're not being honest there.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Who says it is EU policies that are the problem?

    Again, the Dutch - as with many European populations - have a far higher regard for the EU than they do for their own domestic governments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I don't agree with Brexit, but it's wholly unrealistic that you can have a technocratic system and democratic legitimacy. Pick one. EUphiles will always side with technocracy. Every time.

    Just to be clear, we already have this. Big tech companies, can easily influence political elections, and some of these companies have a higher turn over than the GDP of a lot of countries. And now with advancements in AI the control swings even more so in their favour.

    I get what you're saying about the EU, but I think the next alliance will be held together via some big tech company either in the light or in the shadows... it's all very weird.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭granturismo


    The rape gangs ethnic backgrounds were from former UK colonies. These ex subjects and offspring of ex subjects, of the crown were largely entititled to immigrate into the UK and are also 1st and 2nd generation. Their predation, criminality and lack of integration into UK society had nothing to do UK membership of the EU. Farage used voters to further his career and bolster his bank balance. Their vote wont stop immigrants from former colonies and hasnt done much to slow down illegal immigrants.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's not weird. It's the logical result of exponential growth of wealth, power and influence in the sector combined with no regulation or government oversight. All countries are guilty of this but you'll never hear the sovereignty brigade ever call attention to it unless they lose a vote since they're the beneficiaries most of the time.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The Number 1 priority of neo-liberals wherever they reside is to replace historic nations with denationalised economic zones into which cheap labour can be moved around freely and plentifully.

    Voting against this state of affairs is what normal people everywhere increasingly wish to do.

    The right-left dichotomy is not useful here imo. Neoliberalism and labour protectionism are fundamentally opposed to each other - not two differing versions of the same thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Voting further to the right isn't going to change that dynamic however. Harder right rhetoric may talk the big talk about getting rid of immigrants to whip up the permanently red faced who have been tuned to blame the other for all their ills, but they won't do it. The right love their cheap labour. Something which often lost on a lot of people. You know, aside from a dip caused by Covid, immigration has actually gone up under the Tories, even with Brexit in effect.

    As to your last para, Neoliberalism is an entire political outlook that's wedded to free market ideals and corporate rights over that of the citizen. It is very much a right wing set of ideals. Labour protectionism, on the other hand, is just a tool which has been used by both the left and the right at various points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yeah I'm aware the Tories are complete fakes on this issue. A guy on Twitter gave year-on-year figures for a Labour vs. Conservative comparison of in-ward migration a good while back.

    Wilders did better than he expected to and his voter coalition includes people you might not think of - like gay guys who've been beaten up by Morroccan immigrants outside of gay bars.

    I ask you in which of the roughly 195 countries in the world would a majority of normal people like to see their national existence dissolved and replaced by the establishment of Airstrip Five Economic Zone? None of them.

    'Elites' - or whatever we're supposed to call them - are totally out of control. Immigrants shouldn't be scapegoated or blamed - but the policy of immigration should be dialled way back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Wilders is a fucking chancer as was Trump and any number of Tory fakes you'd care to mention. Don't make the mistake of trying to assign any kind of higher honour to him just because he has a gay guy to trot out. Big deal.

    He'll do nothing to alleviate the problems of Dutch people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭growleaves




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Ah ok, so it’s ok to make fun of it. Sure weren’t all the women in the Magdalene laundries Irish, like their tormentors, let’s think up a few jokes about them too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭weisses


    Decent amount of Muslims voted for Wilders in the last election apparently.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement