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Dutch Freedom Party wins general election. *Read OP before posting*

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    #182
    m2_browning
    Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411103#Comment_121411103

    I never said that

    both the far right and far left (and the extremist greens) are as daft as the religious extremists whose culture is completely opposed to any European values that grown since the enlightenment era

    Most people are on the center but burying head in sand and denying there might be issues that need solving only results with them gravitating to all the political extremes



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    #183
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411136#Comment_121411136

    You didn't but you imply it with the both sides argument. The far right can do as it pleases and they're always exalted.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #184
    m2_browning
    Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411164#Comment_121411164

    No you completely miss my point and are mistaken if you think I support any political or religious extremists on any side of the political spectrum

    Being polarised into an extreme position is precisely what the far right (and left) want while their puppet master in Kremlin laughs at us in Europe self imploding over what can be resolved fairly easily by stopping immigration of young uneducated and uncultured migrants from cultures and religions that **** hate us and our way of life. yesterday has shown we have enough of our own young gopnics to deal with first.



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    #185
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,101 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Interesting to hear that even potential coalition partners for Wilders are saying that 'Nexit' is out of the question and a referendum on Dutch EU membership is off the table as far as they are concerned.



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    #186
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411351#Comment_121411351

    I'd say it's likely he'll be PM but nobody who isn't extreme will agree to a referendum after what happened here. We just assumed remain would win and that didn't turn out to be the case.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #187
    lumphammer2
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    These stupid far right parties need to be banned simple as ... treat them like we treat Al Qaeda or ISIS ... they are the same thing and are not for the good of their countries or their people ... what is more worrying is how they can fool people into voting for them ...



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    #188
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411423#Comment_121411423

    Banning them would just bolster their support.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #189
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411423#Comment_121411423

    Who gives you that right though? If we ban far right, should we also ban far left? What about left and right? Maybe we should only allow centre politics from now on? Should we only allow what you agree with?



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    #190
    m2_browning
    Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Instead of talking about how to prevent more occurrences like this in other countries including Ireland the topic of discussion seems to focus on how awful this party is

    Reminds me of threads and threads discussing page after page of how awful trump is (and awful he is) but very few comments on how to avoid nutcases like that

    And when people put forward pragmatic proposals they get shouted out with various accusations



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    #191
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    A good and concise analysis of the election result:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-STafxrNwE


    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #192
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411756#Comment_121411756

    This is exactly it - and is the same in every country in Europe. All shock horror from established parties when more extreme parties do well but they never acknowledge why.



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    #193
    rogue-entity
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405873#Comment_121405873

    Downright dangerous, fanatical and repugnant policies, to call them toxic would be an insult to actual toxins.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404276#Comment_121404276

    Though you said it elsewhere, for the parties involved its also about capitalising on an opportunity to seize power and enrich themselves without regard for anyone else. I do believe this was a similar tactic used (among other things) to pass the Enabling Act in 1932 and we should remember where that roads leads.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404346#Comment_121404346

    The 'Nationalism' you refer to in Ireland/Netherlands is more correctly referred to as jingoism (of the sort you see in the US). That being the blind ideological adherence to belief in your nation's superiority and that of your nation's citizens over others - now where have I seen that before from my history books?

    In contrast, 'Nationalism' in Ukraine is a reflection of support for their nation's right to continue existing as an independent sovereign state, with its defined borders, freedom to ally with those they choose, to follow their own destiny and not be bullied (and then invaded) by another power on the whims of a tyrannical leader unhappy that the Ukrainian people don't want to remain under the Russian boot, and in their so-called 'sphere of influence'.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404522#Comment_121404522

    I disagree, Europe has a shared history, shared values and those include granting people freedom to be themselves without expecting or requiring that they conform to some arbitrary convention; we cannot want freedom for ourselves without granting it to others who make their home here. Quite a few of the folks I know and have met who have immigrated to here from other countries, have brought unique perspectives, a taste of a different place and culture, have integrated themselves into the community and who contribute to making Ireland a vibrant and lovely place.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403912#Comment_121403912

    I don't see an issue with talking about immigration policies, but, I don't see how you can impose a limitation without effectively saying "we don't want too many of your kind here". It is striking to me how some of those who support hard-line policies (as evidenced by some of the posts here).

    There's never a problem with suggesting that the policies in place don't work, but there's a fine line between saying "we should limit incoming numbers to a level we can manage" and "we don't want too many from $region" or "too many who follow $religion"

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403867#Comment_121403867

    That's the biggest issue to which I think folks are (willfully) ignorant of, the common thread that seems to attach to all of the 'far right' parties: PVV, Front National, FPOE. The inevitable association with pro-Russia policies and receipt of funding from Russia.



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    #194
    hymenelectra
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Some people have utterly lost the run of reality.

    Yes, we can end migration. There are two things standing in the way of it. The gigantic finicialisation of migration, and the secondary effect of turning a population against its own interests in pursuit of that profit.

    Everything else is a bit of paper.


    The multiple crises in this country are readily linked to the mass migration over the same time period. Full goddamn stop.

    Add in the cherries atop like murders that go along with it, it's a no brainer to put a full stop on migration, regardless of whether German, Islamic, or Easter Island asylum seekers.

    The only thing that divides jingoism from genuine self determination is action. Anyone can step up to the plate with promises, but if they don't deliver at lightning speed, they can be quickly replaced.

    And I do think that's the future political landscape of Europe, ever more rapid turnaround politics until the desired results are achieved. The old establishment, right or left, are simply history.



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    #195
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404038#Comment_121404038

    Not unlike the UK. I can see why the UK wanted Brexit, as many there thought it would reduce immigration. It did not. White Britons only make up approximately a third on people in London now.


    Interesting to see so many Dutch contemplating Nexit now. People do not want overall muslim majorities in a generations time, as is the case in Leeds, Bradford etc. .

    What happens in the UK and Holland happens here in 10 years time.



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    #196
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    The funny thing is if there was no riots and people held a peaceful protest about controlled immigration policies being introduced here after the poor kids being stabbed. Theyd still be labelled far right. It's just muppetry at this stage.

    Post edited by Mr. teddywinkles on


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    #197
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,490 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I saw an interview with John Gray recently where he noted that neoliberals or so called progressives are so prone to conspiratorial thinking because they cannot accept that the rise of populism (i.e. groups with popular policies) is the natural reaction to the policies the neoliberals/progressives have implemented for decades. I'm paraphrasing a little, but that point struck me.

    Whenever there is an upset where the voters make the "wrong" choice, there is a rush to explain it as either some malign manipulation by a foreign power, malign manipulation by internal troublemakers, or just the voters being morons. There is never any allowance made that voters might be making a legitimate choice in reaction to the policies of the neoliberals/progressives, which is handy because it means they never have to examine their (wildly unpopular) policies.

    I'll expect the Dutch political set will be doing everything in their power to ignore the election result and build a coalition from the less popular parties. This might well work to the advantage of the FP, as it further delegitimizes the Dutch regime, and allows the FP to build up further as the principle opposition party. I'm not sure FP getting into power would be all that revolutionary in any case - as demonstrated by Trump and more recently Meloni in Italy, there is no shortage of politicians which champion those voters rejection of the ruling policies, and then calmly continue their implementation when they get into office. Wilders is likely just one more former firebrand now trying to show he is a safe pair of hands.



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    #198
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121412926#Comment_121412926

    Thing is, we can sort of already see what happens with the more out there governments that get elected. They're generally a shambles or in the case of Orban, just a step into totalitarianism.



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    #199
    m2_browning
    Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121412926#Comment_121412926

    You were saying something

    Untitled Image

    There is both a migration problem

    AND

    external manipulation by scum from Mordor who would think of nothing in eradicating yourself and everyone you love, said scum is also busy pouring oil into the migration problem



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    #200
    getoutadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121410647#Comment_121410647

    You need to ditch the Father Ted re-runs.



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    #201
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404704#Comment_121404704

    You mean Catholicism right? All of those bishops who thought that the laws of the state against raping kids and covering up crimes were irrelevant to them and the priests under their control?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #202
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,490 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121412945#Comment_121412945

    I don't know that totalitarianism can be ascribed to a few governments or parties in Europe. If you look at some of the other threads in this forum, people who would consider themselves moderates are calling for violence against their political enemies and state repression to be used against them in the same manner as terrorist groups. In Europe and the west more generally, assets of private individuals are seized, its commonly accepted that holding views the government doesn't like should endanger your access to day to day services, posting something on social media that the government doesnt like will lead to the police paying you a friendly visit, there is increasing calls to monitor people and what they think or say, media that politicians don't like is banned, "centrists" openly discuss banning political parties they don't like, where they haven't already banned them.

    It seems pretty totalitarian already. I think Orban's main crime is that he has seemed vaguely competent at holding off centrist/progressive attacks on himself and his party. That doesn't mean Orban is a good guy - but I dont see that anything he has done is wildly out of step with what his critics do themselves.



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    #203
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404712#Comment_121404712

    Total drivel

    HUGE numbers of what we call "native Irish people" (how do you define that?) have ancestors from all over the place not that long ago. De Valera was half Cuban ffs.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #204
    m2_browning
    Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413063#Comment_121413063

    Right because we already have a bunch of homegrown religious numpties we should totally bring in a load of foreign religious numpties to balance things out

    /s



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    #205
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405037#Comment_121405037

    Which is why the Catholic Right established from the late 1920s total control over media - radio, cinema, newspapers, books, magazines - to as far a possible prevent people hearing any opinions not approved by them. A tacit admission their bullshít notions could not pass muster in the light of day. Britain was decried from the pulpit as 'godless England' yet hundreds of thousands of Irish people went there to escape utter poverty here and made decent lives for themselves.

    (Oh no - migration as a positive both for the migrants and the host country - and the home country too as they sent home money - nope can't be talking about that 🙄 )

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #206
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405146#Comment_121405146

    🤣 often the anti-immigrant types go on and on about Ireland/Europe's Christian Heritage(tm) but where the hell do they think that originated from..?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #207
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,559 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    hymenelectra threadbanned



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    #208
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413122#Comment_121413122

    A lot can change 2000 years



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    #209
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403734#Comment_121403734

    so if you call someone a racist or bigot and they then go and vote for a racist or bigot, then they arent racist or bigots? Im confused ....



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    #210
    tinytobe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's not a surprise.

    Does anybody honestly believe that Islam belongs culturally to Europe? And even worse, as long as all the issues with immigrants are happening.

    There is a simple reason, why people vote for right wing parties.

    They are not content with the current immigration politics in Europe, especially Islam.

    Austria will certainly be next, with a landslide win for an anti-immigration party.



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    #211
    lumphammer2
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411490#Comment_121411490

    Far right = war, violence, hatred, death, anarchy, terrorism, dicatorship, fanaticism .... that is what far right is .... no one should allow that and far right parties (I mean real ones not ones labelled as such ... Bolsonaro aint far right or either is Meloni for example) need to be banned .... some are like Al Qaeda and ISIS but others exist in government like Paydari, the Republican Party, Taliban and possibly others .... This guy in the Netherlands has a history of incitement to hate .... some examples of far right ...

    Spanish inquisition ... the Holocaust ... Milosevic ethnic cleansing ... the excesses during the invasion of Iraq ... 9/11 ... Al Qaeda/ISIS beheadings ... January 6th 2021 ... what happened in Dublin yesterday ... that is the far right and that is what should never be allowed in any country ...

    Far left is the same as far right ... Stalin, Khmer Rouge that sort of thing .... pretty much the same .... meets full circle ... everything non violent is centre .... centre left centre centre right ... or normal politics ... extremism is never the answer ....



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