Dutch Freedom Party wins general election. *Read OP before posting*

ancapailldorcha

The Dutch Freedom Party (PVV) has won 37 out of 150 seats.

A summary of PVV's policies:

https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1727608887916818612

Basically, end free movement, various anti-Muslim measures, a halt to green measures and efforts to reduce carbon emissions, end foreign aid, abolish the public broadcaster and an end to asylum for refugees. He's not a covid denier so there's that I suppose.

As someone who's toying with the idea of moving there, this is dismaying though the Dutch system means he needs coalition partners to govern and he may not be able to do that if they shut him out. If they do that and people don't think things will improve, he's likely to remain a persistent sore in their sides.

Mod warning

Anyone attempting to discuss the Dublin stabbings and resultant riots will be threadbanned

Threadbans

hymenelectra

Boggles

He wants to hold an "Nexit".

Shudder.

Calahonda52

How did the new farmer's party do?

Mullaghteelin

This is will get Irish politicians and media even more upset about what they call the spread of misinformation and far-right conspiracy theories.

According to their worldview, this result could only be down to voters being wrong. The voters must have been led astray and fooled by far-right propaganda. Any legitimate fears the Dutch electorate had will be ignored.

We should expect further talk about restricting free speech on social media, etc etc.

ahnowbrowncow

This is what happens when you shut down people from voicing legitimate concerns regarding uncontrolled immigration by calling them racists and bigots. They'll vote for someone who takes their concerns seriously, even if they're on the extreme end of the spectrum.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403685#Comment_121403685

Bit under 5% of the vote, and 7 out of 150 seats.

zell12

The opinion polls suggested third place for the PVV

A measure of Mr Wilders' success in winning over voters came from one Muslim voter in The Hague who said: "If he wasn't so opposed to Muslims, I'd be interested in him." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67504272

Maybe the Dutch will be told they did not understand the election and tell them to vote again 😉

Peregrinus

The opinion polls suggested third place for the PVV

No, not really. PVV pulled ahead strongly in the middle of the campaign, and pretty much all polls in the last week of the campaign had them coming either first or second.

Maybe the Dutch will be told they did not understand the election and tell them to vote again

"Vote again" is not an impossible outcome.

On the figures, it's going to be difficult for any party to negotiate a viable coalition, so expect discussions to be prolonged. Wilders' problem is that, although PVV is the largest party, (a) they're a long way short of a majority; they will in fact a minority themselves in any coalition grouping, and (b) he arouses strong feelings; voters who don't like Wilders really don't like him, which increases the political cost to other parties of joining a coalition with him, particularly one led by him.

So possible outcomes here include:

• After months of negotiations under a caretaker government, no coalition ensues and it's back to the polls.
• A coalition is put together, but it's unstable and fails to run a full term; back to the polls.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403766#Comment_121403766

Apparently 70% of voters were undecided the day before the election.

The polls hadn't a chance of predicting the outcome.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403782#Comment_121403782

And yet they did. The last poll taken before the election correctly predicted the parties that would come first, second, third and fourth.

Thelonious Monk

You may all rejoice that the woke brigade are getting their come uppance, the Journal commenters are creaming themselves, but breaking Europe up will not be good for Ireland and will make Russia more powerful and more able to spread into Eastern Europe. Surely we can have governments with immigration policies that doesn't mean the end of EU movement and the Union itself and everything that's good about it without having to vote in the likes of this eejit, or Trump in America.

It just goes to show though that we'll never be able to implement policies that are required to save our environment if they mean people will have to make do with a little less, people will just vote for the party promising to scrap all green measures or any other measures people don't like, and for this reason we're pretty f**ked as a species.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403833#Comment_121403833

I meant the PPV result.

They won 33% more than polled.

That's colossal.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058323850/dutch-freedom-party-wins-general-election

Ridiculously tabloid thread title.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403867#Comment_121403867

Surely we can have governments with immigration policies that doesn't mean the end of EU movement and the Union itself and everything that's good about it without having to vote in the likes of this eejit, or Trump in America.

But try talk about such policies or suggesting ways to find a middle ground and you get called a racist and bigot, or a climate change denier.

Thus voters swing towards people that tell them what they want to hear, in this case Wilders, in America's case Trump.

And interestingly in Ireland SF, not right wing but certainly populist.

HalloweenJack

Using the recent elections in Spain as an example, I predict that no-one will go near them.

Vox could have played a crucial role in forming a coalition in Spain but they are so toxic to people who don't support them that they contaminated their likely coalition partner, Partido Popular. No-one would go into coalition with PP because they knew that Vox would be another coalition member. Outside of their supporters, their brand of politics is unpalatable and intolerable for a lot of people.

These guys might have won the biggest number of seats in the Netherlands but another way of looking at is that a majority of people voted against them and, again, a lot of people who voted for other parties probably won't want their vote supporting a coalition with them in it. I can see a coalition of smaller parties that will likely struggle to make much impact just to keep them out, not unlike the 'anyone but Sinn Fein' coalition in Ireland.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403912#Comment_121403912

Ok but a Europe full of ruling parties like these guys will not lead to better lives for all of us, in my opinion, it could spell disaster.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403920#Comment_121403920

Why exactly do you think that people are voting this way? It wouldn't be because many think that we're already living in a disaster, created by status quo politics and politicians?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403933#Comment_121403933

I think people are taking a lot of what we have already for granted

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403907#Comment_121403907

Nope.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403945#Comment_121403945

On the other hand, people might want to protect what we have.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403945#Comment_121403945

What's that getting up early going to working hard and getting home late tired every day.

For granted ain't the term I'd use.

It aint so from my point of view it's there because people do this.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403959#Comment_121403959

Leaving the EU would be disastrous for Ireland, this guy wants a Nexit

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403961#Comment_121403961

I meant living in a stable wealthy country with lots of opportunities

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403966#Comment_121403966

The EU needs to go back to a trading bloc with free movement of people. Cut out the federalisation crap.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404019#Comment_121404019

It was never that. I don't know why people pretend that it ever was.

Butson

No surprise.

I've been going to Holland for 10 years with work, usually once a month for a few days.

The change has been nuts in the demographic make up of the country in that time.

m2_browning

Good to see their farmers party do so well too, they shouldn’t have tried to ram green nonsense policies down farmer’s throats in what is the agricultural engine of Europe

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404038#Comment_121404038

Compared to Ireland where are they/us?

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404027#Comment_121404027

Its simple: to cover up their real intentions, attract more voters and wind people up a la Nigel Farage.

There is a spectrum of views. The extreme end is out-and-out racism then this slides through anti-multiculturalism, anti-free movement, anti-immigration and so on. The further racists move their rhetoric along the spectrum, the more people they appeal to and the more votes they can win.

That's not to say people who express more moderate views are racists but racists will change the tone or focus of their message to something more palatable to get more people on their side while secretly holding onto their original, less popular views.

Similarly, if expressing concerns about immigration isn't getting people to turn on the EU then change tact and make the EU the boogeyman: a federal EU, conscription into an EU army, they're taking away our sovereignty.

The means justify the end for these types. They want out of the EU (for whatever reason). If they can't convince people using their actual arguments then they'll shift to another one in order to convince them.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404117#Comment_121404117

is having a big problem with rising nitrogen levels on the land not something to be concerned with? it's hardly green nonsense. look what happened to lough neagh, which is a kind of green nonsense now, literally.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404131#Comment_121404131

It's a serious problem but populists only care about scoring cheap votes and farmers only care about lining their own pockets.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404174#Comment_121404174

right but if they carry on as is, farming will be f*cked anyway?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404185#Comment_121404185

A lot of people find comforting lies, particularly simple ones to be preferable to the truth.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404131#Comment_121404131

As opposed to people starving on a planet that adds 150 million people each year (that’s 23 Irelands more people every year) with the bread basket of Europe currently carpeted by land mines and overrun by Orcs

take a wild wild guess as to where these hungry people then migrate towards?

Instead of working with farmers there was an attempt to bully them in Netherlands and it backfired

PokeHerKing

I wouldn't say we're far off a hard line immigration party sweeping elections here as well. Like solely elected for that stance.

The silent majority have a breaking point and I think we're close to it. The loudest minorities wo t learn from these examples though.

They'll just keep shouting their crazy heads off.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404226#Comment_121404226

but you realise that if they continue on as is, as the farmers party want, the soil and water in netherlands will all be contaminated and they wont be able to farm any more?

but that'll stick it to the wokes alright.

riffmongous

Austria is next up in 2024, the far right party on course for 30%+, their last massive corruption scandal forgotten already

acceletor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404230#Comment_121404230

What hard line party would that be?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403966#Comment_121403966

I agree and we all know what the main persuasion points pushed to get the UK to leave.

The failings and disregard for proper immigration into this country could well lead to a similar situation.

It's not a vote for the far right in Netherlands in my opinion but a vote for change.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404232#Comment_121404232

[citation needed]

I suspect the farmers on the ground know better what’s good for their land and business than a green ideologue on talk forum in another country

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404240#Comment_121404240

Hardline on immigration. Could be any of the existing parties changing their spots or a brand new one.

This content has been removed.

acceletor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404256#Comment_121404256

So none exist then, gotcha.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404232#Comment_121404232

That's the thing though. It's about xenophobia and ethnic nationalism. Nothing else. They couldn't care less about farmers, Dutch or otherwise.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404234#Comment_121404234

I assume no other political party in Austria is putting its hand up and saying "Wait a second, we need to talk about immigration"? That's why people are starting to vote for the Melonis and Wilders of this world. They're the only ones who aren't clapping their hands as migrants come in. Most people exist somewhere in the middle of the "All migrants are great, let them in" and "Deport them all" spectrum. Few if any political parties acknowledge that, and it's the same with the mainstream media (shudder....I hate that phrase but I can't think of another just now). When reasonable people try to argue that there's good migration and bad migration, that there are problems, and that there needs to be a cap on the number of migrants any country can take, they're shouted down. They're labeled as far-right or bigots. When you suppress reasonable debate in the way that has been happening, it's no wonder people turn to these parties.

Wanderer78

...it ll be interesting to see what happens when these type of folks get settled in here to, what horsesh1t they ll bring....

howiya

The thread title reminds me of all the people who thought Sinn Fein won the last general election here just because they were the largest party

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404027#Comment_121404027

The EEC, which became the EU started as a trading bloc.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404304#Comment_121404304

It seemed like a fair enough title. Enough media outlets reported it this way and you can't say that VVD or anyone else won.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404310#Comment_121404310

It didn't.

Bluewolf

If he ran for election here tomorrow he’d win by a landslide also.

people are very fed up and also sick of the two side of the same coin political options here.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404276#Comment_121404276

Nationalism in Ireland/Netherlands bad. Nationalism in Ukraine good. Or something like that?

Seeing that clown Martin who’s previously said about Ireland that “we need to move away from the backward thinking of nationalism” then volte face and say of Ukraine “They chose for themselves a simple flag . . . a nationalism which we and so many others can relate to.” proves that politicians don’t care about what they say, they’re just snakes out for themselves.