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World cup 2027. Were do Ireland go?

1235

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Granted the team will probably look a lot different come 2027 but that performance on Saturday was straight out of the top drawer and would have produced a victory against most teams on most days, even the All Blacks. We made some mistakes that cost more than the mistakes they made and honestly they adapted their game to ours more successfully. That's one thing about our team and our coaches, I'm not sure how much we ever adapt to different teams and adjust our tactics. The mantra seems to be 'we go out and play our own game and don't worry about the opposition'. sure we adapt defensively but I'm not sure we are the kind of team that are capable of big tactical adaptation to meet particular opposition in the way both SA and NZ do. In hindsight this match reminds me of Landsdowne in 2013 and going down at the death to the ABs. A few years later we beat them finally and then didn't look back until Saturday. Maybe that mental thing lifts in the same way in terms of world cups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,810 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Dont disgree, there will be scrutiny on the lineout and by extension Paulie in the 6Ns, it definitely needs to improve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Paulie has not done the job. I'd be surprised if he's kept on. Line out has been a weakness all year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,153 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    He was coach when it was running well so should be given a chance to fix things. it has had issues for a while but he should be allowed try fix them. if you remove him who do you replace him with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I have no idea who'd replace him. It's frustrating watching the line out, it's like playing bingo! Maybe he stays, who knows. I'd say if the line out was a strength we'd have won last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    you would question, when farrell resigns or is fired. Does it make sense to get a coach, who has actually won the RWC...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That is a question for 2-4 years from now.

    Also given the availability of world cup winning coaches I'd probably say no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Paul has to go, no extra time to get it right again, the bloody world cup was the time for it to work not when we are hammering Italy in the six nations, we need to be ruthless with our coaches too, if our set piece was up to scratch we are contesting with a very good chance of winning a world cup final



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,153 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    And he was coach when it was working fine. Who do you repqlace him with if you remove him?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Not sure but someone with a proven track record in that area, there must be many out there, Paul is an Irish legend but he is unproven as a line out coach



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,363 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We just won a Grand Slam with him as a coach, how many coaches are out there with that sort of experience



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    24 nations apparently. Even further reduce the jeopardy for tier 1 nations in the group stages. And even more hammerings to savour.

    Maybe they should add on a few extra weeks too. Should be great.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    Increasing to 24 would reduce the duration of the tournament, as they won't need the by-weeks.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Would it not be the same length, just the by-week teams now have someone to play?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    I think what I read was that they would have 4 teams per pool, thereby reducing number of pool games per team



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    So an additional knock-out round them presumably? Haven’t read up on it so happy to defer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    Yes, with an additional round of 16, but given that each team can play their pool games each week and that the number of teams per pool is one fewer, it ends up one week shorter I think.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    That sounds right. It would make it 3 weeks of pool games instead of 5, and 4 weeks of knock-outs instead of 3, so 1 week shorter in total, I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Best uncapped XXIII at the moment?

    1. Michael Milne
    2. Diarmuid Barron
    3. Jack Aungier
    4. Edwin Edogbo
    5. Niall Murray
    6. David McCann
    7. John Hodnett
    8. James Culhane
    9. Nathan Doak
    10. Sam Prendergast
    11. Diarmuid Kilgallen
    12. Jamie Osborne
    13. Thomas Farrell
    14. Tommy O'Brien
    15. Stewart Moore
    16. John McKee
    17. Denis Buckley
    18. Roman Salanoa
    19. Thomas Ahern
    20. Alex Kendellen
    21. Paddy Patterson
    22. J.J. Hanrahan
    23. Ethan McIlroy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,810 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I quite like the idea of 6 groups of 4 and an extra knockout round. Sure the group stage will be a breeze for the top 10 sides but the extra jeopardy of a round of 16 will make things interesting.

    Perhaps the last 16 seedings could be decided like Europe used to be. I.e. the team with the best result from the pool stage is No.1 seed and the team with the worst that qualifies is No.16 and No.1 plays No.16 with the winners playing the winners of No.8 v No.9 in the quarter finals and so on. That way teams would have some extra to play for in the group stages to get rhe best seeding possible even if they have qualified comfortably.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Would give Ireland a great chance of finally winning a knock out game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    World Rugby need to find a way of getting 2 of France,SA or NZL in the pool next to ours to ensure we are playing a top nation in a QF!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    Yeah I quite like the sound of it too.

    The round of 16 would also increase the competition between teams that don't qualify 1st or 2nd in the pools, given that 4 of the 6 that come 3rd in their pools would be through to knock-out rugby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’d have gleeson over culhane on that list. I might move culhane to 6.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    I’d probably have forde from Connacht in at 12, Frisch at 13 and Osborne at 15



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Stewart Moore is currently comfortably better than Forde, as is Postlethwaite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Probably have a biased against ulster as I think they’re on a big downward path but Postlewaite for sure isn’t anywhere near Forde. How many senior appearances does he even have?

    Moore is probably better at the minute in fairness but forde has more potential. Would be curios to know how much you’ve watched Connacht?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Yeah, in fairness, Postlethwaite is a stretch - you're right to call me on that.

    I watch some Connacht games. Forde has been impressive, but Moore is better, I think, whatever about the slippery idea of "potential".

    Completely agree with Ulster being on a downward path, but Moore was superb before Dwayne Peel and Payne left - don't think Forde has put together a run of games like Stewart Moore did a season or two ago (when he would have been the age Forde is now).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Surely we will finally win a knock out game if it moves to a last 16 stage!

    The less group games the better and a small group of 4 also. At least more teams qualifying for the knock-outs will mean less nothing games in the group stages and something to aim for.

    The current 4 x 5 group format is just daft. At least 3 teams in the group are just canon fodder for the big nations to practice on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    I’d argue that Forde was vital to Connacht turning their season around after Christmas last year, while Bundee was with Ireland.

    I’d also argue that he’s better suited to irelands needs and wants from a 12 than Moore is, hence the potential term being used. Forde can do the battering ram bits that Bundee and McCloskey do but also has brilliant hands as he was an outhalf up until u20s. Also a work horse defensively.

    I could see Moore being involved with squads in the future but more as a utility back and there is a lot of competition for that sort of role



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Fair enough. You're probably right about the battering ram bit, but I'd say Moore is more skilful and elusive, and simply started featuring at FB as McFarland was determined to get him on the pitch when McCloskey was available.


    Either way, centre is going to be an interesting battleground in the future for Ireland. I'm less convinced than others that Ringrose will be as comfortably first choice in the next three/four years,



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm less convinced than others that Ringrose will be as comfortably first choice in the next three/four years

    Why?

    He's still very much the lynchpin of our defence and an excellent strike runner. I would like if he passed a bit more, but I can't see anyone else on the radar even remotely at his level. There is a reason it's never been 2 from Ringrose/Henshaw/Aki when all fit, it's always been one from Henshaw/Aki and Ringrose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Greengrass53


    It's way too long with far too many meaningless matches. 1 month is enough just like the soccer WC



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus



    The simplest thing to say is just that three/four years is a long time.

    People are very excited about a number of young backs in terms of their raw ability, Leinster are getting a new head coach, and the Irish gameplan will have to evolve (and I'd say will change very quickly if Catt is gone.) Every one of those factors will influence Ringrose's hold on the 13 jersey, aside from his own form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Given his age we should definitely be trying some new 13s in this cycle. It's probably one of the jerseys that we've "under-shared" in the last while. GR is clearly excellent, and when everyone's on form and fit he's our best. But then if he's on a bit of a dip, or has a small injury, he still gets backed because of his experience.

    The fear is that we over-value the experience meaning his standards slide that little bit too far, and we miss opportunities to grow someone else into the position.

    Off the top of my head I'd be looking at Hume, Osbourne, Frisch and Sean O'Brien(the ex-connacht, now at Munster one) to pick up some meaningful minutes in the next year or two.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He'll be 32 in 2027? That's fine.

    I'm sure other players will get chances over the next cycle, don't get me wrong. I don't really doubt Farrell's ability to be ruthless in selection either. I just think that today he is easily the frontrunner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Yeah I don't think he'll be retired or out of the picture or anything. I just think that he's more likely to be picking up niggles (I know I am) and the likes. He'll probably lose a small amount of pace over the course of a game too.

    And he is still the front runner. I'd just like to see him benched for some meaningful games so that we have the potential for a meaningful choice going forward. I'm thinking Italy and either Wales or Scotland during the 6N and something during the Summer.

    I'd be putting them along side Bundee or Henshaw though, so not a full 2nds team or anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think Osbourne will put pressure on Ringrose. Ringrose is not done by any means and still is only 28. Ringrose does have a fairly long injury list over the years.

    Cathal Forde has been great everytime I've seen him. A very talented youngster. Moore is very talented too but he needs to put pressure on McCloskey.

    If Catt is leaving who comes in? I'd look at R.O.G and Pivac. Rennie would be worth a look, as would Townsend. I doubt any of the domestic coaches would get the job. Farrell will have his say.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,153 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    ROG doesnt appear to have any interest in coming back to any role in ireland any time sooq.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    ROG is waiting for Leo to move upstairs, so he can land his dream gig



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Taoiseach?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    If Catt is leaving who comes in?

    Munster fans won't like the answer to this question



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Predergast has to be favourite by a distance, even if he was overseas he would be

    Other option maybe Nigel Carolan at Glasgow, they have a nice attack



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    If I remember correctly on the Emerging Ireland tour last season the first choice centre partnership was 12. Moore, 13. Osborne, with the second string being 12. Forde, 13. Frisch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Prendergast would change the entire style of ireland.

    So, would Farrell hire him and let him do that, because that would def lead to selection going in different directions. If he doesn’t want to give Prendergast a big say in hiring, then that would be a bad call as system offensively tends to drive selection.

    Secondly, that severs the link between ireland and leinster. We currently play a system that at least shares large elements with leinster. Leinster have spent a long time optimizing all the way down to schools for certain player types in certain roles.

    Thirdly, that knocks on to hurt the cohesive element of leinster-Ireland.

    I think it will be someone who suits what ireland do now mostly.

    edit; if you are a munster fan and this happened, its bad but probably increases the amount of players in ireland camp. You basically have a ton of guys who now have intimate knowledge of how the system works that the international team plays. That makes it way easier to walk into practice and outplay someone who has spent the majority of his rugby life playing lancaster ball for leinster or lancaster ball+ for ireland.

    It would also prob make casey-crowley a cert. they both really suit prendergast’s game.

    Joe McCarthy would be amazing as well actually in that style. Let him keep adding weight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Catt and Farrell never worked for Leinster? Paulie is from Munster. Actually Farrell worked for a while with Munster

    What link would be severed if they hired Predergast?

    If this is trying to drag in some sort of conspiracy between Ireland and Leinster it's a very poor attempt.

    FYI if you hadn't heard Lancaster left Leinster last season so nobody in Ireland will be playing "lancaster ball" or "lancaster ball+"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Catt could be an alien from Mars. You can just watch ireland and leinster play, and see that they have the same style. That’s changed somewhat over the last year but especially when ireland started getting better it was very pronounced.

    They basically both play a transition game based on long kicking. Prendergast plays like a french style ball possession game.

    When i mean it severs the link, you can no longer say that a Leinster winger will have an intuitive understanding on how to slot in. Also on the lancaster ball thing, we’ll see on that. That is embedded pretty deep.

    if they hire prendergast and try to implement the pure version of the system, then i don’t think it will work very well with the current squad.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,091 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I know the IRFU like to promote from within but I'd prefer the replacement for Catt come from outside the system right now. New, fresh voices are a good thing.



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