World cup 2027. Were do Ireland go?

Dubinusa

Another qf loss. Another 4 year cycle begins. What happens next?

This current squad will evolve and players will exit and new lads arrive.

Gone: Sexton to retirement.

Likely gone in the near future: Kilcoyne, Healy, Murray, Pom and possibly Herring. All are mid 30ish and offer little to improve.

Who should be gone from the coaching team? For me, it would be P.O.C, our line out was and has been a crap shoot for quite a while.

The new breed! Looking at the immediate future, we need a loose head. In my opinion Loughman is in pole position. Milne is not far off.

Scrum half. Casey needs a run over Murray. He will learn by doing and experience. Another 9 needs to be found. Doak?

Out half. Crowley should get the ball. RB will probably be the back up. Carberry is not good enough at international level. He should not get another look.

It will be more of a slow blood letting. Imo. I can't see Healy or Kilcoyne feature this upcoming 6nations.

Casey if he's playing well should be given the reins.

Go lads! Input@

Rugbymad2020

Best thing Ireland can do is build depth,teach ur props how to scrum cos they have gotten away with murder and lastnight a ref had the balls ping them.line out not much better.

it showed straight away when Ireland started basically a full strength team for every game then when subs called on they didn’t perform

riddles

Our best players in the world cup were most project players - De Flier and Aki can home grown players get to that level?

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240431#Comment_121240431

Was the team already just Leinster & project players .

Peter O mahony who’s time is now up and Henderson the only others started last night . Tadhg Beirne is from Leinster.

phog

We don't build for RWCs, we build for the 6Ns and hope for the best when the RWC comes around.

This year, we went into the RWC as the No1 team, having had a great 6Ns and tours but alas it all came unstuck last night.

Farrell, a coach I hugely admire seems to build a team of 15 first choicers and a few more that will fit in for we're playing the minnows or as injury cover.

The Scotland game was a game where he could have freshened things up but he went with the tried and trusted and had we won last night, we'd be facing into a SF with a tired and trusted 15. We'd have made history but we couldn't keep going with the same 15.

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240465#Comment_121240465

We keep doing the same thing and expect different results

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240431#Comment_121240431

Do you even watch rugby? If you mean Josh Van Der Flier he was born in Wicklow.

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240470#Comment_121240470

The physicality needed to win a world cup can we develop players who can bulk up to level need to win that arm wrestle. De fliers people I believe aren't Irish I'm sure you can correct me. Sexton, Henshaw etc can get there but injuries are a big cost as an outcome. I wonder what would be in the tank for next if we crossed the line yesterday. not a whole lost I suspect.

ErnestBorgnine

Where do Ireland go?

Out in the Quarter-Finals, obviously.

irishgeo

Australia

thehairygrape

Only four countries have ever won the WC. NZ, SA(3each) will always be there or their abouts. Aus(2) a bit of a basket case. England (1) have a huge player base and still rely on players not born in England. It’s not really realistic to expect anything beyond the QF for Ireland with a poor draw. France have never won it.

So, where do we go? We carry on. AF is a good coach. The players give their all. We continue to target GSs and six nation championships and the odd tour win down under. Sexton and Earls have retired but why would we throw away the experience of our older players? Whitlock is still doing a job for NZ and I think he was the one who finally put and end to our multiple phases in extra time. Our under age teams are doing well. Just keep going and keep supporting the lads. Hopefully we get a favourable draw at the next WC and at least reach the SF. I never thought we had a realistic chance of winning it as we just don’t have the depth atm as proved by the fact that we couldn’t rest players for the Scotland match.

Finally would like to thank the team and squad for a great few weeks and years.

Pete_Cavan

I think we are too focused on building a first team and we don't do enough to build a squad. Same story at previous WCs, the 15 best players have been decided upon well over a year in advance and they get all the game time regardless of form. We are too loyal to certain players, we make them indispensable which is a self-fulfilling issue, if nobody else gets a shot then nobody else can be considered good enough. If we dont have enough depth, that's because we don't do enough to develop it.

Look at NZ, SA and France, they have handled injuries much better than we could have (we were lucky in that regard). They also used their squad players more than we did. Continuity is important but we take it too far. We also need to stop relying on aging stars, they can of course bring a lot but there is a limit to what guys in their mid 30s with a lot of miles on the clock can do. Look at how NZ use Whitelock.

We need to switch things up the next 6N. Guys like JGP, Herring Aki and Murray may have something to offer in the short-term but we should be actively looking at replacing them with younger models. Apart from JGP, I wouldnt have the others in the 6N unless there is another player injured. Get Doak, Stewart and Osborne involved instead. Similar goes for Henderson and Conan to an extent although they have a couple of years at international level in them yet. They should be part of the next squad but need to be replaced well before the next WC.

Furlong should be left with Leinster to try find some form. He's not the player he was and Bealham and TOT can do much the same job. Bring in a young TH and try to develop him. Doris needs a kick in the hole, should be part of the 6N squad but shouldn't start, has to play his way back into a jersey. Bring in Coombes and give him some game time, he's at least as good a player as his opposite number would be for all 6N opposition bar France.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058318202/world-cup-2027-were-do-ireland-go

Lineout been a mess. But who replaces O Connell if you get rid of him and how much can be put on him?

Casey has to show why he should be ahead of Murray. Carberry how is he not good enough at international level. You've said it before but never actually said how he isnt good enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240431#Comment_121240431

No they werent and that you think Van Der Flier isnt home grown just shows that you havent a clue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240465#Comment_121240465

The single most important thing we can do moving forward is build for 2027.

F*ck the Six Nations, f*ck Grand Slams, f*ck any Autumn Series against whoever and wherever.

September 2027 is the only target.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241068#Comment_121241068

Won't happen. The IRFU make their money by charging outrageous prices for 6N and November friendly tickets to the daytripper, bandwagon fans. So while true rugby fans know that the World Cup is the true barometer of success, the IRFU need to priorities 6N and November friendly results to maintain the illusion of being a serious team, in order to keep charging what they do.

Expect to see the same team bar Sexton lining out in February, while everyone else looks 4 years ahead.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241089#Comment_121241089

To be fair there would be plenty of the corporates who would go and pay those prices for 6 nations and November tests regardless of what happens on the pitch so that isnt the reason.

You are very naive if you think every other team bar Ireland are going to be looking to 4 years ahead bar Ireland in feb

TRC10

Need to get Porter back to tighthead where he could actually scrummage. There's 3 excellent young looseheads at Leinster who can take over.

Joe McCarthy was good last night. He needs to be heavily involved. Hopefully Ahern and Edogbo can kick on this season.

We need to have a serious conversation about Caelan Doris. I've always thought he's been massively overrated. He's had a really poor World Cup and his handling is still a huge issue. Culhane and Gleeson have the potential to be much better. Savea showed how superior he is last night.

Any player who is a periphery squad member and over 30 should be thanked for their service and not included in any squad for the next 6N.

We had a ludicrous situation last night where Porter was asked to play 75 mins, and Sexton the full 80, because no real replacement was available.

Conor Murray and JGP should not feature in February, they will be 38 and 35 respectively in 2027. We have 4 years to find 3 quality scrum halves. Let's use the 20 6 Nations games and the 12 Autumn Internationals properly and build a squad.

We did not bring a squad to France. We brought a first 15. And they were knackered last night.

Clegg

It's a sad existence when you have to wait two full years to shite on a player after he proved you wrong again and again.

Doris is one of the best players in the world and had a good tournament despite what you want to believe.

Clegg

Putting all your eggs in one basket is a mugs game and any calls to build exclusively for a World Cup should not be taken seriously.

You're leaving so much up to chance that you won't get major injuries or see a wholesale drop in form. Can't throw away four years worth of Six Nations appearances for that.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241141#Comment_121241141

That isnt how you build a squad. You cant just throwaway every single player who wont feature at next world cup. You wont/dont build topquality players through throwing in them before theyre eady.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241179#Comment_121241179

What squad was built by sticking to the same tried and tested over the last 4 years? We had no squad at this tournament. JOB making his first tournament appearance last night, ridiculous. No viable backup for Porter, ridiculous. No out half trusted to take the reins from Sexton, ridiculous.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241152#Comment_121241152

Doris is one of the best players in the world

Christ almighty there's no end to the delusion

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241202#Comment_121241202

Been considered one of the best in the world by multiple publications over the last few years and made multiple World 23s.

You can keep lying about it, but you posted about your dislike for him years ago. But you were never able to back it up because Doris put in years worth of World Class performances. You're not all of a sudden right because you perceive him to have played poorly.

Shehal

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying here I think what's key is for us to start 2024 strong and build from there. What I noticed about all our previous 3 WC failings is we tended to be really good and consistent for the 2nd half of the RWC cycle and mediocre/inconsistent for the 1st half. Yes we should look to 2027 but the aim is to start the cycle strong and keep a positive environment in camp which will make introducing new players into the system far easier. The squad itself is in a much better place than the 2019 team was so there is not much need to radicle change, the only conundrum is who starts at 10 but I am confident enough that Crowley will take over the 10 jersey admirably, it might take him time to reach anywhere near Sexton's level but anyone who know's a thing or two about rugby would know this. Aim for the moment is look at who needs immediate replacing and what positions need depth to be added, LH prop for one, and go from there.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241152#Comment_121241152

I think Doris is a good example of the issue I was referring to earlier. He played his way into the starting jersey but his performances 12+ months ago meant he held onto the jersey despite his form having dropped off significantly. Once he got the jersey, there was no pressure to keep it.

The other no.8 in the squad being injured meant Doris had to start but bringing Conan when he was already injured is another example of sticking with a guy when we shouldn't have. He was injured and only plays one position, a position where we already had someone else starting. Prendergast got a run out but in truth, I think there was little chance of him getting picked over an established player despite the added flexibility.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241192#Comment_121241192

We did build a squad. I ws working til 6 this morning and am back in work in 2/3 hours so cant be arsed going through the irish squads and the stats but we very much built a squad.

Sexton has been one of the best 10s in world. even at his age. noone being trusted to take over from him considering his form isnt a problem or should be a criticism.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241226#Comment_121241226

Doris's form hasn't dropped off though. He's been a key player in everything we've achieved this year and last.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241214#Comment_121241214

The best players in the world, deliver in the biggest games. He underdelivered last night and he's consistently underdelivered in the biggest games for Leinster. He's not as good as you think he is.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241227#Comment_121241227

We quite clearly didn't built a squad. You don't build a squad for the world cup snd flog most of your first 15 for every single match.

No one being trusted start over form Sexton isn't a problem. No one being trusted to play when Sexton can barely walk is a massive problem and deserves significant criticism. Was the plan to okay Sexton for the full 80 minutes for the next two games if we won last night? Crazy stuff.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241246#Comment_121241246

His form this year for both Ireland and Leinster has been below what it had been previously. I think almost everyone would agree with that.

Dubinusa

The lh situation needs to be addressed. I'd be happy to give the 17 shirt to Loughman, if he's playing well for Munster, to build up his confidence and experience. Beyond that there's Milne, who still has work to do.

We missed Ryan yesterday. He's definitely our best lock for rucking. But lock is a position that I believe we have substantial depth. There's ready to go young players in the system. I'm very high on Niall Murray, I think he could be a good international down the road. Henderson still has time left as does Beirne but, over the next couple of years we need new blood.

I hope Cian Prendergast gets into the 6nations squad. He's on the cusp and is the big physical blindside that we need. There's always the Baird to blindside!

We also need to develop a 12. Aki is old and Henshaw is injured frequently. McCloskey won't make the next worl cup. Would Frawley be worth a punt?

Lots of options and I expect a really good 6nations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240465#Comment_121240465

Spot on, we were just that little bit off. Playing South Africa & Scotland took their toll. New Zealand very fresh & their 2nd string will wipe the floor with Argentina.

Keep doing what they’re doing is all i can say, the last 2 - 3 year’s have been an incredible success when you think about it.

Favourable draw next time & who knows?

Will have absolutely massive support again in Australia.

We wont be only team in transition, this is That NZ teams last hurrah also.

Australia, Argentina, Wales, England, Scotland will all be rebuilding too.

Think France & South Africa will become the dominant force’s of the next 3 - 4 year’s.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241227#Comment_121241227

I'm not sure he did build a squad, he built a team, the bare bones of a team.

If we truely had a squad we'd be second guessing the team right up to it being announced, anyone could print our team sheet the day before it's announced. As I said already, the team we played against Scotland last week would have been playing the final had we got through and the lads stayed injury free. That flogging lads, mentally and physically. That's not entirely on him but he has to accept some responsibility.

And in a way NZ and in particular Schmidt knowing how our team lines out in advance gave him the little nuggets to work on to beat us.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241388#Comment_121241388

I think we might see a dip for a year, but I'm confident it will be temporary.

I don't think there'll be massive change for the 6Ns. Obviously there's a gap at 10, but other than that the team could quite easily be the same it was last night with maybe Ryan coming back in and Healy on the bench. I'm not saying it will be, but there is never massive change in the immediate aftermath of a WC.

We'll probably see some newer faces in the wider squad like Osborne, Hodnet, C.Prendergast and Stewart.

shootermacg

Were do Ireland go?

Simple... We go again!

phog

There's absolutely no need to have a clear out and equally there's no need to (it wouldn't happen anyway) not to target a 6Ns, that's our bread & butter.

Augme

You can target 6N while also building towards a world cup. However, only playing the same 25 baring injuries for most games isn't going to be hugely detrimental to winning World Cup. How we haven't learnt this lesson I don't know. If our squad depth is as good as Irish blfsns build it up to be, then rosting pskyers against the likes of Scotlsnd, Italy, Wales and England really shouldn't have a huge negative impact on our 6N performance.

Mr Disco

When will the draw be made for 2027?

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241776#Comment_121241776

It should be done in 2026, I'd settle for 2025 though as at the very least it would ensure the seedings arent a million miles away from being accurate.

Donald Trump

They need to bring in your man Stephen Kenny as manager/coach.

(Obvious not a serious statement. But a point being that the rugby lads made a decent effort. I wouldn't be beating myself up over not winning a tournament. 4 years is a long time until the next one)

Dubinusa

We have Scotland; Wales and Italy at home this 6nations. There's no reason to be playing Healy or Murray. Seriously, today is day one of prep for the new cycle. We will have a good 6nations.

The S.A tour will be a great chance also to get up and coming lads into the cauldron.

I would expect to see Baird/ Prendergast to be the blindside option. Joe McCarthy to get more of an opportunity. I wouldn't mind seeing O'Toole start a couple of matches this 6nations.

I'm not too concerned with out half. I reckon Crowley is very capable and RB is a very capable back up. HB could get a look too.

As for P.O.C, I think he should be released. The l/o has been poor for a long while.

ScissorPaperRock

URC becoming more competitive with the South African teams will hopefully contribute to the development of broader group of test-ready players. Hopefully it'll also equip them with the ability to (continue to) front up in physical games.

Maybe Nienabar will be able to strengthen the winning mentality at Leinster.

Looking forward to the likes of Crowley, Frawley, Osbourne becoming involved more too. Ahern and McCarthy great prospects.

There are some reasons to believe we still have a strong foundation to build on in the next few years.

JPCN1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241470#Comment_121241470

Healy, wonderful player that he has been is 36... we really need to move on. Casey needs time over Murray and clock on POM also running out.

highball14

Obviously very hard to predict but would anyone have a go off predicting what our XV in 2027 could look like?

I’d be thinking 7/8 of last nights 15 are likely to still be starting.

Interested to hear what young players are expected to break through.

naughtyboy

There is no doubt Irish rugby needs a shake up. For me players with say 20 internatioalnal caps should be allowed play abroad and be available for international selection

I believe that having 4 provinces is actually a bottleneck and it is hindering the production line that we require to not only make a semi final but win the world cup

Ireland need more depth when it comes to all positions but especially in the forwards and even more espcually at prop.

Its a no brainer.

ednwireland

need to build a 30 man squad for the next world cup.

thehairygrape

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121242125#Comment_121242125

Interesting. Crystal ball stuff. Keenan, Hansen, Ringrose, Frawley, Stockdale (still young enough), Crowley, Doak, Dorris, Van der Flier, Baird, Ryan, Prendergast, Porter, Sheehan, a.n. Other.

Cant see too much change tbh. Lots of experience still around in four years.

Shehal

Our last few u20s side's have been very strong so I would expect the next squad to be alot younger at the very least.

magic17

We need to go into the transfer market again IMO. 5 All Blacks, 3 South Africans & 1 Australian would give us good options.