Wheel of Time (Amazon)

OwaynOTT · 03-09-2023 10:49pm

Episode 2&3 very good. Best run of episodes so far

Flinty997 · 04-09-2023 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064888#Comment_121064888

Its an incoherent mess.

Its not simply thats its "a bit different" to the books. But its been distorted so that it no longer makes sense even on its own.

Makes even less sense especially if you read the books. Which is quite something to have achieved.

VinLieger · 04-09-2023 7:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065876#Comment_121065876

*cough* Foundation *cough*

Sleepy · 04-09-2023 7:42am

Wasn't aware it was back! Is there a decent re-cap of Season 1 at the start of episode 1 or do I need to find one on Youtube or the like?

fitz · 04-09-2023 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066408#Comment_121066408

Man Of Recaps on YouTube did a good one.

pixelburp · 04-09-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066408#Comment_121066408

There was yes, though it lacked a little detail as it kinda skimmed the broad points.

Having watched episode 1, I enjoyed it on its own merits; the convenience of the non book reader I guess. There was a lot less bullshít table setting and clumsy world building from season 1 and the story just got going. The characters weren't these unknown quantities that needed dramatic backstories and purpose - the adventure and intrigue just started.

Black Sheep · 04-09-2023 10:49am

I'm dipping in and out at this stage, but my initial thought is that I'm glad that Rafe Judkins has obviously decided he has paid enough lip service to the source material, and can more completely do his own thing this season. It was almost more frustrating, as a fan of the source material, that Season 1 was half adaptation of the 'Eye of the World' and half the showrunner obviously being a bit frustrated with it, and eager to do his own thing. I'd rather one or the other, so based on what season 2 is so far - a very clear divergence from the books - it's potentially better all round.

I think we'll continue to see characters and plot lines from the books, but all bets are off in terms of how the characters are depicted, how plot lines occur and are resolved, and their chronology.

The only thing is, it does make me a bit sad, as now we'll probably never get a genuine adaptation of the Wheel of Time books.

A really earnest Japanese anime version probably would be the way to go. Japanese anime can be a bit saccharine sweet, like Jordan's Wheel of Time sometimes.

Flinty997 · 04-09-2023 11:54am

I think it's very common practice in recent years to plunder a story to get project funded. But after you get funding you go change it to make something different and usually pushing some agenda.

Black Sheep · 04-09-2023 3:21pm

I heard an interview with Rosamund Pike, and she has some quite interesting things to say about the Wheel of Time in general. She has the benefit of doing the reading of the audiobooks and being on the show, so she probably knows the source material better than the rest of the cast.

I've heard her talk about what she thinks the differences are between Judkins' characters and the originals. She's diplomatic, but often you get the sense that she's got a bit of a gra for the novel originals, particularly when it comes to Moiraine. She has said she likes the cryptic, high fantasy way that Moiraine talks in the books (And, in fairness, Moiraine is probably the best example of an Aes Sedai not lying but consistently being... Economical with the truth). She says the show's rather more straightforward Moiraine is largely a function of the amended character needing to be more at the centre of events, progressing Judkins' plots.

I don't mind there being more Moiraine, I could watch Rosamund Pike all day. But I do wonder what Judkins will eventually do with his Rand. I still get the impression he thought really, really hard about a way to avoid having such a conventional Dragon Reborn. Considering the other changes he made, he and his core audience might have been happier if they just did something like killed Rand off, and made Egwene the Dragon Reborn, and gave the books the two fingers altogether.

04-09-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121068626#Comment_121068626

She's a Cavill

Slydice · 04-09-2023 6:40pm

I watched this recap before starting. Felt a bit long, at just under 19 mins, as recaps go.

The Wheel of Time Season 1 | PV Recaps | Prime Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx7KbRoNEDs

2.1: Hmmm, feels like this is going to be a bunch of wider character development.. maybe even world development before some big event towards the end of the season. Glad I watched that recap, there's a lot going on. Also happy I spotted the trick being played on

Mat by yer wan in Red where she didn't mention the part of the letter that had his name. Had to double check that between the two versions being read

Dany Hitch · 04-09-2023 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066129#Comment_121066129

I've read the series twice and whilst it does not remain faithful to the source material, it is improving as a spectacle for non-readers. I had low expectations of it and season 1 whilst not great, did enough for me to return for season 2 despite the changes a tv/movie adaptation will undoubtedly bring to a fifteen book series. Just finished S02E02 and it's gaining momentum. I'm liking Mat: can't wait for his antics.

I'm trying not to quote specific things lest I spoil the plot and outcomes for non-readers on here but I would love to know at this stage, do non-readers follow the various story arcs and the world of the WoT? Or is just frilly lace, gilded furniture and a spoonful of honey in the tea?!

5starpool · 06-09-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066129#Comment_121066129

This is mostly my take on it too. I reread the books last year after the first season, and I enjoyed even the problematic middle books more than I did previously. I know it's not possible to adapt it and be the same, but it's just a bit all over the place, especially with only 8 episodes a season. They are trying to fit too much in, while cutting stuff out, and it doesn't feel coherent to me. The only character so far that is similar to how I pictured them in the books is Elayne, and she hasn't done much in it yet. I have loads of questions too. I haven't posted much since the new software came in so don't know how spoiler tags work anymore. Nothing should be too spoilery though below.

Why did Moraine get cut off, or is she only shielded with a tied off shield?

Can anyone see weaves that anyone else makes? That's what it seems like but I can't remember them explaining it.

Is Te'aran'rhiod not going to be in the series at all? It hasn't been mentioned that I can see and was pretty important.

Is that Elyas instead of Huron as the sniffer? I think so, but they don't use names very often.

Are the seanchan not using physically linked collars? I'm assuming this will be explained more fully later when other events happen..

Why do the damane have metal dummies? They look silly.

Introducing Verin as Adelas' sister (I believe that is what they are doing) instead of Vandene is different too.

If they wanted to cut out a chunk of the books then I think they could have eliminated the Children of the Light altogether. I know they are in it a lot and some events hang off them, but tbh, I wouldn't miss most of the events in the books that involve them.

Flinty997 · 06-09-2023 5:12pm

Agree totally I think there were better ways to condense and tighten and streamline the story.

But the director doesn't want to tell that story, he has his own agenda and wants to distort the source material to that end.

It's targeting a global audience who haven't read the books and are unlikely to ever read them.

06-09-2023 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077625#Comment_121077625

See that's the hypocrisy, absolutely in my own opinion.

If you want to make something for a new audience, work away.

Don't use an existing fan base, as hype generation, only to then gaslight them, when they complain about you ripping up the source.

We've the same in The Witcher and Lord of the Rings ROP.

People love the LotR films even when they are able to point out bad choices (Gimli character assassination) because the stayed true to central premises.

Expanse another fan favourite, even when making changes to Drummer.

pixelburp · 06-09-2023 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077625#Comment_121077625

It's targeting a global audience who haven't read the books and are unlikely to ever read them

Not exactly true: as is often the case, book adaptations have seen bumps in sales.of the original novel(s). Happens every time, and this series is hardly the first to take massive liberties with the original text (nor does it seem the worst, thinking of the recent attempt at The Watch). Honestly I've kinda lost count.

Say what you will about the series, but it's clear the TV show has driven new readers to the novels - and that's ultimately a net positive overall.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/wheel-of-time-book-sales-spike-amazon-prime/

Flinty997 · 06-09-2023 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077823#Comment_121077823

Agree totally.

Expanse is an especially good adaptation.

I enjoyed most of the Witcher, haven't read the books. Storyline seems confused though.

ROP, makes no sense to me what they did there.

Halo is a complete abomination.

06-09-2023 7:04pm

God help anyone ever trying to adapt Malazan

5starpool · 07-09-2023 8:26am

I presume Liandrin is taking the place of Elaida too, which is odd as both had very different arcs/motivations in the books.

Brief_Lives · 07-09-2023 9:52am

I had only read the first 9 books by 2002... then I stopped.

Now I am back reading Crossroads of Twilight, book no10. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed these books, even with their long winded descriptions of fat, brown ajah aes sedai.

This tv series is understandably changed. The amount of characters in the books is only rivalled by War and Peace.

VinLieger · 07-09-2023 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078010#Comment_121078010

The most egregious example of all is the abomination that is the "adaptation" of Terry Pratchett's City Watch books for BBC America.

I apologise for reminding or making anyone aware that this disgrace exists

Flinty997 · 07-09-2023 11:19am

If you consider something like Apocalypse Now that's a great adaptation that's very different to the book. But set out from the start to be different. But very common themes.

pixelburp · 07-09-2023 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079960#Comment_121079960

And yet, hot garbage as that adaptation might have been I'd be shocked if it didn't result in a bump in sales of Pratchett's novels (the Watch sub-series in particular). TV and film adaptations, or the death of musical artists: both nearly always have a substantially positive effect on sales.

Flinty997 · 07-09-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080111#Comment_121080111

Love the Watch. My favourite characters in Discworld.

Flinty997 · 07-09-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079683#Comment_121079683

Did the same.

A few years after Sanderson finished the series, I went back and re-read it all. Didn't changed my opinion on it. Too long, too many characters, too many story arcs. Still great series though.

Game of thrones books have similar issues.

VinLieger · 07-09-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080111#Comment_121080111

I think this might be the one instance where the source is so far removed from the adaptation that people literally didn't connect them or disliked the show so much they wanted no more of it.

Flinty997 · 07-09-2023 12:47pm

If the WOT series works for people who will never read the books. If they enjoy it, that's ok. But it could have been a lot better.

Ave Sodalis · 09-09-2023 9:42pm

I'm actually much more content with season 2 so far. In a way, I feel it's more true to the spirit of the books than last season. A big improvement in the costumes that have been dirtied up a bit and are less jarring to look at. Overall, I do believe (even as a book reader) they're on a better track.

Dany Hitch · 12-09-2023 12:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079304#Comment_121079304

No sign of Elaida yet and Liandrin looks to be taking a more prominent role in the series than in the books. Quite a few changes to the books which appear to be streamlining the original story arcs but alas, not remaining true to the original. Just finished S02E04 and so far, it's an improvement on S01. Elayne looks to be a strong character already and then there's Lanfear...

5starpool · 12-09-2023 10:52am

I was interested at their mention of the wolf dream in E04. I wonder how big they will get into that aspect of things as it is a very big part of the books. I still think they are being massively hamstrung by only 8 episodes per season. Some things they have to cut out of necessity, merging others are fine in context, but if they try to do too much in too little time, it'll end up an incoherent mess, which I hope it doesn't. I have a few big arcs in general that they can cut out and I'll be perfectly fine with it, but I won't go into it here for spoiler reasons.

Flinty997 · 12-09-2023 11:02am

Who knows. Anything goes in this series. Literally.

12-09-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100444#Comment_121100444

But let's spend an episode in season one on the funeral of a brand new Warder...

Flinty997 · 12-09-2023 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100508#Comment_121100508

Exactly. You could cut all the warder relationship ship stuff out and not effect thethe story. Of course the director will argue they are telling a different story..

5starpool · 12-09-2023 12:37pm

It's the TV equivalent of tugging at a braid or telling everyone how Rand/Matt/Perrin don't understand women and they wish they were as good Rand/Matt/Perrin as they understand them much better.

Markitron · 12-09-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099529#Comment_121099529

If I was to guess I'd say Morgase/Elaida are being cut out and Elaida's material is being given to Liandrin. Much the same way they have combined Elyas and the tracker character from book 2 (can't remember his name). It would seem that Logain is being given the job of Rand's teacher as well which was another character's job in the books. I am only on book 5 so I will hold back judgement on this until I finish them but so far I mostly get all the combinations and condensing they have done. No scripted TV show aside from sitcom ever gets 10+ seasons so this is all probably necessary if they want to get through everything. Book 3 is so similar to book 2 structurally I wouldn't surprised if they cut most of that out too and go straight to the end in season 3.

OwaynOTT · 12-09-2023 3:45pm

Elaida has been cast for season 3 apparently

Flinty997 · 12-09-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101841#Comment_121101841

You mean...Chrisjen Avasarala

OwaynOTT · 12-09-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101870#Comment_121101870

Not sure of her name. She’s in the expanse.

id have thought she make a good cadsuane.

Flinty997 · 12-09-2023 5:29pm

That's her characters name in the Expanse...

12-09-2023 9:24pm

She's too old now but I always picture Fionnula Flanagan when reading the books, as Cadsuane

Screenshot_2023-09-12-23-04-10-559_org.mozilla.firefox-edit.jpg

Dany Hitch · 12-09-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100983#Comment_121100983

I envy you with the rest of the series to read! I would have preferred more than eight episodes per season to cover more of the material in the books but that ain't happening. They are sprinkling more of the prophecy and history within WoT into the dialogue and that's an improvement of season one. Apparently, Elaida will be in season 3 so that's something to look forward to and we still have to meet Aviendha in season 2. Plenty of characters to get through in WoT.

Flinty997 · 12-09-2023 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103051#Comment_121103051

I could see that.

pixelburp · 13-09-2023 6:07am

Watched episode 2 and this has been a much improved experience. Everyone feels like they have a purpose, previously drippy characters suddenly more arresting and the various plots interesting enough - there's just more energy this time than the tepid first season and the tedious whistestop tour.

Still has that trouble with High Fantasy shows where all the names are such Made Up Bollix I can't keep track of. The illusion would be somewhat spoiled if the powerful wizard was called Mary, to be fair.

5starpool · 13-09-2023 9:09am

I always pictured Elaida as similar to Kai Winn from Star Trek DS9. Similar in appearance and character in some ways.

Flinty997 · 13-09-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103977#Comment_121103977

From memory, (open to correction) she's meant to be a good looking well dressed and smart queen. Hence the daughter is similar.

Seems the opposite to the Kai character. Who was small minded, and stupid.

That said they could make her like princess Fiona if they are telling a different story as they claim.

13-09-2023 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104178#Comment_121104178

Queen?

You thinking of Morgase?

Flinty997 · 13-09-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104377#Comment_121104377

You are right. Ignore me I got the names mixed up.

13-09-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104463#Comment_121104463

Saying that Elaida would be Kai Winn in personality and scheming but definitely not in looks.

Flinty997 · 13-09-2023 12:06pm

Kai Winn was such a poorly written character. It's was an utter waste to spend so much time of the last ds9 season on that story arc. Ruined Dukat as well.

pixelburp · 13-09-2023 12:17pm

Kai Winn was such a poorly written character

/threadbanned.

Wheel of Time (Amazon)

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