Wheel of Time (Amazon)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370295#Comment_118370295

..and embellish the sleeping arrangements.... 😱

Black Sheep

Rafe did a Q&A on IG yesterday where he said he knew most fans of the books probably wouldn’t like the series.

At the end of the day they have limited interest in the original IP’s fanbase- they’re a nuisance at times, probably. I’m not sure they’re right to think that, but that’s the mentality.

I’m trying to remember what the Randland equivalent of Christmas is… And failing… Happy winternight is the best I can do(?)

Sudden Valley

I don't think any series could survive with just the original material fans watching it. It is enjoyable but less impressive than the witcher. As has been said hopefully they have a better second season but really good series like Buffy had a stinker of first seasons

Heraclius

They have stopped Rand from having any cool heroic moment. I'm very disappointed in it.

If you're not even trying to attract the original fans why bother with an adaption.

Just make something other than WoT. I hate when people take loved material, with an inbuilt fanbase, use said fanbase to drive hype, then publicly sh1t on them.

I just don't understand that mentality

Heraclius

I'm not sure why they didn't go the whole way and make Egwene the Dragon.

Just finished.

What the actual feck was any of that. It bore no resemblance to WoT at all.

They should have saved the licencing money and made a bespoke IP. I'm honest here. That entire season would have been better served by not being called WoT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371407#Comment_118371407

Well they're made her a Ta'veren, along with Nyneave

twinex

I’m just confused now. Truly.

Look im leaving aside the departures from the book, until we agree to have a thread about it or not

My issues are that I can't get over how bad so much of it looks in 2021 for the budget involved. The special effects are a disaster and trollocs aren't worthy of 1995 TV, the scenery wouldn't look out of place in Knightmare

A special word for the sound mix, they seem not to have been able to introduce music into any scene without obliterating the dialogue or background effects, absolute amateur hour stuff

I thought Perrin was actually doing an interesting job for a while but now I have to say it does seem more like hes struggling to remember his lines, and possibly constipated to boot

Regardless of departure from book plots, important occurrences are horribly rushed and there's a huge feel of "things are just happening"

There's no heft, no weight, no *quality* to it and it's nothing to do with plot to say that that most of all does the books a serious injustice

Positives: now they arent obscuring it, our lead character shone a lot brighter. The cast by and large is interesting and decent, for all that Pike is acting the rest of them out of the park. I like how they are playing a long game with some elements

All in all I think Judkins needs this taken off him, not because of butchering the plot and whatnot, but because frankly he's spent a pile of money on something that simply does not pass muster in this day and age.

Shadow and Bone (for instance) shows up the quality control in this as the sham it is, and there's no way that should happen for an IP as big and a budget as colossal as the WoT- an absolute disaster of a production in context, whether you thought it a decent first season or not imo

twinex

After digesting that spectacle, I can now imagine the showrunner(s) in a supermarket sweep like setting, with all the chapters from all the books randomly spread out across the shelves and them flying around like a headless borderland guard grabbing as many pages as they could before the buzzer.

There you go, season one of the Wheel of Time.

Before anyone says "it's an adaption", it really isn't. It's wholesale changes with very little in common with the main beats of the story.

Expanse is how you do an adaption. There are considerable changes to characters and events (some replaced, some merged etc) but the core is the same. Main characters aren't changed on a whim and they act like they were originally imagined and appreciated.

Even the Witcher. That series of books is has horrendous narrative, at the best of times, so wholesale changes are required but guess what? Main beats are being hit, Geralt/Dandelion (Jaskier)/Yennifer/Ciri are all immediately recognisable as their book counterparts.

There's a difference in adapting Vs taking a vague inspiration. If you're going to use an existing IP then use it, otherwise make a new one.

Now that's the adaption issue let's talk about the show.

Insanely stupid creative and practical decisions all round.

Months into the story and our main characters are still in their original clothes which are in perfect condition. I've, honestly, seen better at cosplay or LARP.

Sets are small in scale and horrendously lit/shot, showing every flaw.

Everything is over lit/saturated

Morainne (and Suian) is an idiot, taking farm kids to the most dangerous place in existence.

Politics in Tar Valon was at the playground level.

Not using the gender divide already in the books (women rule everything, from women's councils, Ships, to Tar Valon). Why force what they're doing? 5 Ta'veren, 5 potential dragons, channellers getting hero battles but allowing the entire defensive army get overwhelmed/destroyed

One month later-ing the difficult journey to Tar Valon, after they were separated.

Most egregious, spending entire episodes on dead end characters and plot points. Did we need half an episode on a Warder death?

Fal Dara folk were morons, anyone think they ever fought?

Archers to the gap, channelers in the open and not on the gap wall throwing lightening bolts from a height.

Ballistas held at the city but on the ground (outside the gate), again not providing support at the gap wall.

Book wanker...

Spoiler Warning

Ballistas at this stage of the story? Matt will have little to discover at this stage

SouthWesterly

Having never read the books. I enjoyed it.

A bit of a lead in to the 5 being needed and 1 already dead soon to be brought back to life. Bid of an odd one really.

Black Sheep

I agree that the “original fanbase” could never sustain the new series - they absolutely need a broader appeal, for sure. But there’s a reason the original IP attracted that large fanbase, and that earning potential and enduring appeal did lead to the TV series getting made…

Update, modernise, revise too much at their peril, IMO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371967#Comment_118371967

This is the thing. Why call it Wheel of Time, then?

Very few people I know, who read the series, are liking this. If they had this much distain for the source material, and its fans, why not do something original?

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371996#Comment_118371996

It’s just how it is with entertainment these days, we have an endless rebooting of proven IP because it’s a safer bet. But they sometimes hand it to young guns like Rafe who (if they were honest) would tell you they think the WOT was retro rubbish.

Same thing with Rian Johnson and Star Wars. He’s a Woodie Allen and film noir fan, he was making movies like that up until he got given the Star Wars stuff. His take on Star Wars speaks for itself really, there is a gaping chasm between his approach to the IP and the storytelling principles that Lucas understood and which made it a mega hit in the first place.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371996#Comment_118371996

I'm in the strange position where I liked the early books and then gave up because I felt I didn't like how Jordan wrote interpersonal relationships of the characters. I'm rediscovering the positives of the books having seen the series though. It seems so poorly made and seems to have gone out of its way to shred the magic system and lore. I'm most disappointed that they took Rand's first moments wielding the power as the dragon reborn and gave it in such an unearned way to Egwene, nynaeve and characters with no names. The TV series has failed in a big way to make me care about Mat, Perrin or Rand. It held off personifying the threat from the dark one/ishamael until too late so it feels very low stakes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372013#Comment_118372013

My go to is actually JJ Abrams doing Star Trek. Making it superficial nonsense because he wanted to mould it into a Star Wars like Science-Fantasy

We're stuck with Discovery because of the 2009 film

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372017#Comment_118372017

I'll be absolutely honest that Jordan couldn't write interpersonal interaction for any money.

He trapped characters in stupid loops and situations because no one asked simple questions. That's where adaption could really have elevated the source material.

odyssey06

I havent read the books... I thought there were some intriguing elements in the TV show but it was executed in a largely mediocre manner & some of the acting was not up to scratch. It might have been acceptable as a 90s production on limited budget but not after LOTR, GoT etc and on that budget.

Case in point .... big scene showing a cavalry army ride out... only to take up position in a fortress.

For book readers... does season 1 cover book 1 or go further into the books... or just awol?

Loafing Oaf

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372034#Comment_118372034

Yes, it became too infuriating for me to read eventually. I loved the world and the core plot but I couldn't get past the annoying squabbling and pettiness of characters. I spoiled the last books of the series by reading how it ended because I couldn't face reading beyond the middle books.

I wonder how far the series will get. Has it alienated so many book readers that it won't have a loyal fan base or has it converted enough non book readers to make up for that.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372036#Comment_118372036

The first book is the first season.

Manach

Disappointed with the show. Having read the books when they were initially released, I knew the general arc of the series. Unfortunately the show seems to have diviated from the essential coming of age of the 3 lads from a small village into a rather confused ball of mud with no apparent character development.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371996#Comment_118371996

As I said, I never read the books.

highgiant1985

I’m a Big fan of the books and really tried to give the series a go but as others have said it’s just really poor and no quality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372080#Comment_118372080

Yeah and it's been good for you. So why bother antagonising existing fans when you can just make something new

BillyHasMates

Not going to make book comparisons. I was hopeful before watching it that it would be solid enough, maybe not GOT level of good but watchable. Having watched it I can only describe it as a disappointing mess. Could take issue with almost every aspect of the show and that's leaving out the storyline changes and omissions. For me there is not a single memorable scene in the show. The first season is entirely forgettable. 3 out of 10 for me. I liked the design of the fades and at times the showing of the One Power. The opening scene of ep 7 was decent but sadly by far the best scene in the show.

They really need to go back to the drawing board. Can't imagine that season will draw too many new fans to the series and will have pissed off quite a few book fans. If season 2 sees no obvious improvement I will quit watching.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372252#Comment_118372252

You're asking the wrong person. I only knew of it's existence just before episode 1 was broadcast

Sudden Valley

I think the creators lost some of the more vocal book fans even by the first episode by changing the race of some of the characters and adding the who amongst the group is the Dragon Reborn mystery. I can see the show ending after the second season or they will struggle on with a much reduced budget for later seasons as dont seem to have reached a big audience. The Game of thrones will be the only universally loved fantasy show in the forseeable future and that even the LOTR series wont reach the GOT viewing figures, Fantasy series may still not be commercially viable.