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A wonderful illustration showing how much public space we’ve handed over to cars

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,539 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    those were different plans scrapped during the recession. thankfully we have greens in government now and they have progressed the project and it's looking very likely that it may have advanced too far for it to be scrapped before the next government is formed, although i wouldn't put anything past SF never mind a bloody farmers party being in government



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,568 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah there will be more of them though is my point.

    Why are shopping centres and retail parks doing so well then? When these shops close up in City centres they can go for 2-3 years without occupation. 6 weeks usually in retail parks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    There will always be a reason not to.

    I have a family of 4 and we get a Tesco delivery every week. We also have a milkman who drops milk every Wednesday. The only time I go to a supermarket is to grab a sandwich when I am on lunch at work or I might pop up to the off licence on a Friday (about 1km away). Yes it takes a bit of extra effort and planning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits


    No idea. I’m just saying I don’t use them. I don’t like spending my free time at weekends doing any kind of shopping.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,646 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    So you shopped for a household of four by bicycle when you were overseas? Yes or no?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Yeah. That uses a tiny fraction of the energy for same journey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    And people who want to complain about cars and want rid of them dont seem to understand that. The public transport system must be in place first. You arent going to get rid of the car and THEN put in the transport. The country would certainly grind to a halt if you do that. And you are right. all that happens is talk about improving public transport. Yet it never happens. So you get a new bus here or there. You change the timetables for a bus. All terrible and pathetic efforts in the grand scheme of things.

    I sold my car 6 months ago. Worst decision ever.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I'm not on here defending cars but defending automated transport.

    Give me a grass lane and I'll ride a horse to work. I don't care.

    But walking and (unassisted by motor)cycling cannot replace cars sans huge expansions in other forms of automated transport (e.g. electric trams) for anything other than relatively short journeys.

    People now live longer but in a diminished capacity - e.g. Parkinsons medication keeping you alive with decreased motor function instead of your just dying.

    Many people in the coming decades will have parents who are too healthy to go in a home but must instead be driven to hospital appointments, physio appointments, eye and ear appointments etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 g g murpho


    The same van will serve several homes in the vicinity at once, so yes, it very much DOES reduce vehicles on the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    They do not necessarily have to be driven. There are taxis, buses, trains, trams etc depending where you live. One of the hysterical points about the waterwork/infrastructure upgrade in Fairview that shut the roads was that due to diversions old people will miss so many hospital appointments. Funnily enough not a whisper from anyone that actually missed an appointment.

    Your point about an aging demographic is well made though and the decisions of many local authorities that granted planning for one off housing with no amenities will indeed come back to bite us on the bum in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Is the taxi shortage over? I haven't taken a taxi in a while so I don't know.

    An expanded fleet of ambulances would be nice too.

    Considering that a 'giveaway budget' will only fuel (potential) inflation I would just plonk extra revenue on new transport infrastructure, if it were up to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Just looking at the OP's question: Why is there a persistent mindset that the “car has right of way”?

    I think the answer to this is:

    1. A lot of people currently have cars and spent money on them. They don't like alternatives being made available as it undermines their decision to own a car. These people also have votes.
    2. Car journeys generally are more pleasant than public transport as it exists in this country.
    3. A general resistance to change.
    4. Once things are car dominated as they are, public transport such as busses that share the same space as cars suffer thus creating a vicious circle.

    So probably back in the 60s or 70s we made a decision that the car would be the normal mode of transport for normal decent people and now we're finding it difficult to change. It's still the dominant point of view that if you introduce more busses you will cause traffic congestion for decent people in cars.

    So, as well as the usual "stick" based measures against cars, we better need investment in public transport. In cities, I'd like to see a decent metro as well as more Luas style lines. Also encourage more residential use of inner cities so that people can live and work in the same area.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This same horsecrap gets trotted out all the time. You cannot improve public transport while people in cars are dominating the space required for the alternatives. And this "removal" of people from space reallocated towards PT needs proper enforcement by a willing police force which we don't have here.

    However, the biggest part of your post that I disagree with is your comment that people want rid of cars. This is complete bullsh1t trotted out to strengthen anti-PT posts because nobody has actually called for it! As I posted in this thread yeaterday, even the motorist's public enemy #1, Eamon Ryan, hasn't called for it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,289 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Many people in the coming decades will have parents who are too healthy to go in a home but must instead be driven to hospital appointments, physio appointments, eye and ear appointments etc.

    but an obvious response here will be that people who are active walkers and cyclists will stave off the effects of aging in this way for much longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Im sorry but have you read the thread. Have you even read the first post. Thius is full of people who want rid of cars. Im sick saying it at this point. People wont even want cars if you provide them with a viable alternative. What could be simpler to understand. Sick of hearing of all these great plans and how this time its different. And next year ... blah blah blah. Yet it just stays the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,070 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    You want less cars…………..invest in better public transport.

    we simply haven’t done so, that’s why there are so many cars. Cars are expensive. People aren’t using them for the craic.

    I don’t know of any large city that I’ve visited, capital or otherwise where such appallingly poor public transport exists.

    Copenhagen has a similar population to Dublin… yet has had for years..:::

    Metro (4 lines)

    S-Train (7 lines) basically like their Dart., but fast efficient and actually very good.

    and of course buses.. land and waterway.

    In comparison Dublin has 2 lines of a Luas and buses and Dart… Luas is 19 years old, nothing since.

    26 out of the 69 Luas stations/stops serve the north side and mostly inner city. 43 out of 69 serve the south side. Dart is slow as fûck. No use to most Dubliners as only 1 line. It’s an anomaly…

    Despite living in a busyish north Dublin suburb….I’m still about 2.4 kilometres from the nearest Luas stop, about 5 kilometres from the dart yet I’d have to take two buses to get to either … and I’d be going away from the city to get both.

    I can drive and be parked up in Brown Thomas car park in 20-25 minutes vs taking 35-40 minutes walking and on the buses just to get to the Luas stop, then the Luas journey itself has to be factored in…… basically 20/25 minutes driving vs 65/70 minutes and a shît load of effort on public transport..

    nothing has been handed over to cars. The political leadership in the country has simply failed commuters for decades… that cannot be argued. They can find money, the will and the planning asap to help a certain war torn country and its citizens out here almost overnight but cannot efficiently or effectively manage to get public transport infrastructure in place for citizens and taxpayers..decades it’s taken and nothing.

    Yes, still waiting on that metro… left with a poorly planned, poorly ran and poorly integrated public transport system. The metro also has been planned and designed for a city with a far less population then it will be forced to serve. So when it does arrive it’s going to be absolutely chaos trying to use it….

    nothing has been handed over to cars…. But if you want less cars… build better public transport… but we haven’t. Not like we haven’t the money…. Look at what we are spending on and where it’s been spent 😏🥱



  • Posts: 573 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is it though? The most up to date CSO figures still indicate that more than 55% of commuters in Dublin rely on cars and 70% of Dubs own cars, just over 30% of Dublin commuters rely on public transport.

    If the Irish city with the most potential to switch to public transport is failing so badly what hope is there for the rest of the nation. This isn't a Dublin centric conversation Public Transport needs to work for everyone and at the minute its not even close to working for half the countries population. Money needs to be spent on public transport to convince people to get out of cars. Trying to frustrate them out of the cars will not work and will make city centers less attractive for those that do drive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Country is full of people horsing cocaine and eating ultra-processed food on the regular.

    Gym, tennis, walking, cycling and careful diet would be much better yeah. Yoga also for range of limb movement. But there just will be lots of people needing assistance in coming decades there's no getting around it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Is there a taxi shortage? Every time I have ordered one it arrived. I don't do it too often though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,608 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Well, from CSO.ie "Just under half of Dublin city and suburbs workers commute by car, which is the lowest across the State" and don't forget Pre-COVID 19 Dublin traffic count showed 71% of commuters using sustainable transport, car use declined to just 28% of commuters entering city centre, bus use overtook car use for first time. Data from November 2019 showed a further decline in car use into Dublin City centre in the morning rush hours, with an increase in people walking, cycling and taking public transport.

    Just because we own cars doesn't mean we use them for every trip!! I frequently cycle, or walk by my car!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Yep, nail on the head. If the service was there and was clean and safe then it'd be used a lot more.

    We have no excuses. We just elect people who don't get the job done. It really is as simple as that.

    They can waste money billions easy in an "emergency" OVERNIGHT on face masks and hand sanitizer or give it to the ******* banks and property developers, etc etc etc and act like big ****** statesmen.

    But anything that is a long term strategic investment and they roll over and ****** die. It's not like rail transport is new. It's been done to death all over Europe.

    And you know the ******** recession will come around and they'll say they have no money. When that is the EXACT time to build cheaply and invest in the economy.

    It's like we kind of never left the UK and are lost and still waiting on instructions now, from some other overlord to decide what we do next.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Articles about taxi shortage in the national media begin mid 2022 and trail off around May 2023. It was discussed a lot here on boards too. Might be resolved now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,443 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Getting a bus isn't a realistic option, for me in Dublin I'd have to walk, wait for Bus number. 1, again walk wait for Bus 2 or walk an additional 15 minutes, wait for Bus number 3 then walk to office, in Bus fares so for the week it would be €39 enough to buy 20litres of Diesel for the car, and would add on another 7 hours a week commuting time...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,539 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It's not comparable to covid though. New rail, bus lanes etc. impinge on people's property and annoy motorists and local politicians will fight tooth and nail to stop these things. Maybe you would oppose it too if it meant your driving or parking was affected.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I have indeed read the thread and don't recall anyone saying that we should get rid of cars. Actually, given that you used it as an example for your point, maybe you can show where in the OP it mentions anything about getting rid of cars...

    I'm not defending the lack of pace in the rollout of public transport infrastructure (I don't think anyone on here is!) but going back to your earlier point about building the infrastructure first and then people will get out of their cars won't work because you need to reallocate space in order to build that infrastructure.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,070 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Fûck all point in getting on a bus if it doesn’t go where I need to be going without changing or it’s going to take twice the time to get there,

    Teznor07 has a similar but worse dilemma…

    …..

    Public transport is piss poor. In addition the NTA have published the requirement for multiple new Luas lines/extensions. This is apparently planned to start construction post 2042 sometime… 😏😵‍💫 so the requirements have been identified now but…. Again, it’s down the line, closer to 2050 when we’ll see a tram….if we are lucky….

    the country is always chasing its tail, politicians always going trying to fix a broken leg with a few bandaids…

    we need x now, y going forward. 100 billion ? Ok if that means we have to cut our cloth to suit our measure well and good. If that means cutting back on give away euros, so be it.

    For 2023, the Government has provided a gross allocation of over €1.233 billion for Official Development Assistance (ODA). This is the ninth consecutive year in which Ireland's allocation for ODA has increased, and the second consecutive year in which the allocation has been over €1 billion.. ODA…. Overseas Developmental Aid / assistance….

    what about our requirements towards our citizens…..? A fraction of that money even 5-10% to be invested here would have a truly world class public transport system… it would take so so many cars from our roads. Ease pollution, citizens would be multiples more happy, healthy, relaxed and have a clean, comfortable, reliable, on time and efficient public transport service. Be able to spend more time at home with family and friends having not been stressed to the gills.



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