A wonderful illustration showing how much public space we’ve handed over to cars

Ezeoul

The vast majority of pedestrians are very careful...

I wish I could agree with you on that but that is not my experience, and especially when I used to drive around Dublin city centre. I wouldn't even pull my car of my driveway now without making sure my dash cam is on and recording, no matter what journey I'm making. Too many fools with no regard for their own safety.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966370#Comment_120966370

You provide a poor example there regarding pedestrian safety given that the onus is completely on you to exit your driveway safely!

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961777#Comment_120961777

Investing in services that are required now but which we won’t see until well into the future. Decades after they’ve been needed. 🤷‍♂️

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966370#Comment_120966370

Too many fools? give me a fool walking over a fool driving a 1.5 tonne vehicle any day.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966378#Comment_120966378

Reverse in, drive out, and "spot the tot" every time.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966384#Comment_120966384

Decades? It depends on how the money is invested. In some cases the difference can be immediate e.g. busses. Historically it took decades to see a public transport project finished because there wasn't any emphasis on it (alsong with normal government tardiness). That doesn't mean that we couldn't do it more quickly and efficiently whether it is a new train line (or even a childrens hospital)

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966370#Comment_120966370

Pedestrian is king in Dublin city centre. They will literally walk out in front of slow moving traffic and it's up to the drivers to not run over them, that's the street culture.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967943#Comment_120967943

The families of these two people might disagree with you.

https://m.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/two-pedestrians-killed-within-15-minutes-of-each-other-in-dublin-horror-crashes/1950526759.html

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967943#Comment_120967943

Indeed, even though it is illegal for pedestrians to cross the road within 15 metres of a pedestrian crossing without using it.

g g murpho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967943#Comment_120967943

If you’re driving a 2,000 kg mini sitting room around YOU need to take care

John_Rambo

I did say it's up to drivers to stop & avoid running over pedestrians.

07Lapierre

A stupid law..pedestrians should be free to cross the road anywhere. It’s us motorists who are “guests” on the roads…it’s up to us to drive with due care and attention at all times.

growleaves

As mentioned upthread many roads were originally built for horse-drawn vehicles. Roman roads, like the one from London to Chester, allowed wagons, chariots, ox-drawn carts and horse-drawn carts on it. If these road vehicles didn't exist the roads would not have been built.

I wouldn't get too carried away with this idea that pedestrians own the roads and everyone else is just visiting. I'll sometimes yield to cars when I am out walking because when it seems safer to me. I go by instinct and intuition - not some ideological rule that tells me I'll have the moral advantage if I do get hit by a car.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969107#Comment_120969107

It's a stupid law because you don't like it, and it completely disproves your previous assertion that pedestrians have a right of way to cross the road wherever they want? 😏

Roads are meant for traffic, with appropriate pedestrian crossings. Footpaths are meant for pedestrians. And even where there are no footpaths, there are still rules pedestrians should follow for their own safety.

"Section 18 Rules for Pedestrians" of the Rules of the Road covers all this. Notably,

• The most important rule for all pedestrians is to behave responsibly, exercise care and not endanger or inconvenience other users of the road.
• If there is a footpath, you must use it.
• If there is no footpath, you must walk as near as possible to the righthand side of the road (facing oncoming traffic).

It's too long to post the whole PDF here, but I've linked it for your convenience. It starts at page 205. But the first bullet point basically states that pedestrians also have a duty of care to behave responsibly.

Because the reality is, even at low speeds of 20/30km, the average stopping distance for a car is estimated at between 9 to 12 meters (and that's on a dry road in good conditions).

A driver may be able to see much further ahead than that distance and driving with all due care and attention - but there is only so much they can anticipate, and there is only so much they can do if some idiot steps out onto the road 5 meters in front of them. The best a driver can do at that stage, is perform evasive maneuvers.

In that circumstance, I wouldn't be putting the sole blame on the driver for any accident that happens. JMHO.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969107#Comment_120969107

No citizen is a guest in any public place, whether they're using their feet, a skateboard, scooter, wheelchair, baby buggy, bicycle, moped, motorcycle, car or public bus.

Riad safety is everybody's responsibility, not just one group of people.

magicbastarder

exactly! just as gun safety is everyone's responsibility, not just gun owners.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969429#Comment_120969429

"Pedestrians crossing the road have right of way" read my posts properly! ;) Us motorists are guests on the road. Roads are meant for People. The only roads where motorists have priority over pedestrians, cyclists etc. are motorways.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969727#Comment_120969727

Poor analogy.

Would you take a stupid risk like walking in front of someone who had a gun pointing in your direction? I bet you wouldn't. Because that would be stupid, and dangerous.

Just like not taking due care for your own safety when crossing the road, is stupid, and dangerous.

You can hope for the best that person holding the gun has the safety on. Or, if not using a crossing, that the driver has good reflexes.

But it's you choosing to take the risk.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970177#Comment_120970177

A bicycle is a road vehicle just as an automobile is a road vehicle.

Moreover e-bikes and e-scooters are automotive road vehicles.

"You do not have right-of-way over traffic until you step onto a crossing. However, you must never step onto a crossing in such a way as to cause a driver to brake or swerve suddenly."

https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/road-users/pedestrians

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970177#Comment_120970177

We've been over this already.

Pedestrians have priority in certain circumstances.

I'm not going to address it again.

Read the Rules of the Roads for Pedestrians, please. I posted the link above.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969727#Comment_120969727

Road safety advice from the RSA for pedestrians:

"If you are sharing a path with cyclists, you should always be mindful of their presence. Paths are usually marked with lines to separate you from cyclists – but not always. Be vigilant at all times for everyone’s safety. 

Here are some simple rules you should follow: 

• Cyclists are generally travelling at a faster speed than you, so do everything you can to avoid collisions that could cause injury to you both. 
• If you are using a footpath with clearly marked cycle and pedestrian lanes, only walk in your designated lane. 
• If you are on a footpath with dual markings to show that you are sharing the path with cyclists, watch out and listen carefully as cyclists can often approach you from behind."

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970261#Comment_120970261

it was made half in jest, half with an actual point. just a comment on the trite 'road safety is everyone's responsibility' line, as if there's some sort of equality between a pedestrian and a car (or other vehicle) driver in terms of their responsibility for road safety. but i guess that's the sort of line the RSA have been peddling for years so many just accept it.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970309#Comment_120970309

What are they meant to say? Its a just a polite way of saying "Don't run out into traffic".

Unless you ban road vehicles outright they are going to be zipping up and down roads at fast speeds. Even with the greatest deference and sensitivity in the world in the part of road vehicle users, pedestrians will still have to watch out for themselves - just due to the nature of what is happening all around them.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970344#Comment_120970344

Maybe it wasn't your intention but what you're saying here is that it is a pedestrian's responsibility to not get knocked down i.e. classic victim blaming.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970373#Comment_120970373

It's your responsibility to not run out into traffic indiscriminately.

What is controversial about that?

If the driver is not at fault, he will not receive any blame nor should he. Where my cousin lives in the US a young girl in his neighbourhood ran out in front of a car at the last second and was killed. The driver felt terrible about it but was not at fault at all. There were no legal reprecusions for the driver.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969357#Comment_120969357

You Sometimes yield to cars but you shouldn't have to right?

I too sometimes have to do things for my own safety that i shouldn't have to. Example, when i'm walking on rural roads, i DO NOT do what the RSA recommend. I don't walk on the extreme rightside of the road. I walk out from the ditch (after all, i have every right to be on the road and if i'm approaching a bend in the road i walk in such a position that allows me to see as far ahead as possible. If i was to walk on the extreme right of the road, any vehicles approaching me (usually driven by fools/inexperienced or just downright arrogant pricks) simply keep coming towards without slowing down. But if im walking out from the ditch, they usually do slow down and usually will move over and pass me at a safe distance.

When cycling. When i'm stopped at traffic lights at busy intersections, i keep an eye on the opposing traffic lights. As soon as the opposing light turns red (and i know my light is about to turn Green) i set off so that i don't delay the motorists behind me. See motorists don't like been delayed, by cyclists and if i didn't move off as quickly as they thought i should a lot of them will floor the accelerator and blast past me with only mm's to spare. i do this for my own safety but to non-cyclists who witness this...all they see is some stupid moron who has no regard for his own safety!

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970344#Comment_120970344

there are lots of situations where people have no option but to share roads with fast moving vehicles. The vehicles of course should not be "zipping" around..instead they should be driven with due care and attention.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970309#Comment_120970309

Pedestrians and vehicle-users have different responsibilities. One isn't "more" and the other "less". They're just different. In some circumstances, they are equal, in others the responsibility lies mainly with one party or the other - but it isn't always the same.

Certain activists would like people to believe that all pedestrians are victims (they ain't - the vast majority are never injured), that bicycles and trains are the most beautiful mode of travel, and that anything private with an engine in it is evil. Many people don't subscribe to those beliefs, and struggle to see any reason for them.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970725#Comment_120970725

By "zipping" I merely mean travelling at fast speeds. Road vehicles are not always going to be going slowly.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969531#Comment_120969531

Responsibility for Road safety is not shared equally. Motorists have the greatest responsibility to ensure other road users are safe. There's only so much pedestrians and cyclists can do. Over 100 people were killed in or by cars on Irish roads last year. Of the 9 cyclists killed, all were wearing helmets, 8 were killed during the hours of daylight.

If we want to make our roads safer, its Motorists and their driving behaviour that needs to change.