A wonderful illustration showing how much public space we’ve handed over to cars

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956907#Comment_120956907

Majority of cities are heading in the same direction as small towns. The retail parks in the suburbs are more attractive to customers and retailers than city centers these days.

Of course they prioritised cars it was the main form of transport in the country for decades and is still the primary mode of transport for most. Its stupid to focus on transport strategies that don't recognise that cars are still the main form of transport, any plans need to be inclusive of all forms of transport until public transport is suitable for everyone.

g g murpho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957461#Comment_120957461

Or maybe find some storage for your sitting room on wheels.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955748#Comment_120955748

They were businesses not closing because of reduced car access. They were doomed anyway

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958598#Comment_120958598

As a disabled driver, I rely on my "sitting room on wheels".

I already consider Dublin City Centre out of bounds. I take my business where parking is facilitated.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957401#Comment_120957401

That depends on household size.

I do a weekly supermarket trip for two older adults with a backpack. This involves a bus journey and about 700m walk. Totally doable.

Not sure I'd want to shop for a household with 4+ people or any teenagers that way.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957461#Comment_120957461

Did you read the posts on this thread regarding Dublin city centre and how the majority of people access it via public transport? That's the way the majority of cities are heading. However you're right 100% about small rural towns & villages are being abandoned & destroyed by rural people, they'd rather drive miles than walk a few metres while heading the way of the US is with a serious rural obesity problem. As you say, the retail parks are more attractive than local businesses for a lot of people.

There's no loyalty when it comes to rural, traditional indigenous family owned butchers, drapers, bakers, post offices & grocers. The old street butchers, cobblers, hardwares, locksmiths, clothing alteration etc.. will only be available in metro areas like Dublin, Belfast and Cork while the rest drive their cars to carparks to get their vac-packed meat & new shoes.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958631#Comment_120958631

Disabled drivers are a tiny minority of the cars on the road and are accommodated by parking available close to many buildings and can also park in places that others cannot. A general debate about general commuting cannot account for outliers. Car free cities would actually be a good thing for people like you who would then have more options available with exemptions etc.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958697#Comment_120958697

I was addressing a person who lives 600m form their Tesco

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958920#Comment_120958920

That's why I noted the 700m walk.

I wouldn't want to be carrying groceries for 4+ people that far. A granny trolley wouldn't be strong enough for the weight involved. And Tesco trolleys wheel-lock outside their grounds.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958631#Comment_120958631

Facilitated with 500 dedicated spaces? Oh poor me, poor me.

https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/parking-dublin-city-centre/accessible-parking-locations

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958935#Comment_120958935

There are alternatives

https://twitter.com/daymobrew/status/1448938548166529025?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

https://twitter.com/neasabh/status/1518333196710170625?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

fits

I did grocery shopping by bike when I lived abroad. Just panniers on a regular bike. For larger amounts delivery is a great option.

just bought an e bike for short trips into my hilly village. Absolute joke jumping in the car to go in there to the shop but it takes too long to walk. We will see. No bike parking of course.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957146#Comment_120957146

Especially when you look at how bad Irelands public transport is. Had to travel from Bray to Tallaght stadium again the other day by public transport. I was actually in the square for a while. Too wrecked to buy anything by the time I got there. Usually about 20 mins by car. Over 2 hours using our state of the art public transport. It was 3 hours on the way back and I was lucky to get off the Luas alive.

I have to go to Skryne tomorrow and then to Oldtown. Going to have to bum a lift for that. Jesus help me. I dare anyone to do that on public transport.

We dont have convenient public transport in Ireland. Its an illusion to those who think Ireland is just one small city that they never have to leave.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958954#Comment_120958954

How reductive of you.

Not all 500 are in the City Centre, that total includes retail areas. You are also aware of how often these spaces are abused.

Dublin City Centre is simply not worth the bother.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958918#Comment_120958918

A poster above mentioned a ban on all private cars in their city centre.

Anyway, as a member of a "tiny minority" and an "outlier" I'll stick to the retail parks for shopping, thanks.

Its also a good thing that I am no longer a daily commuter into the city centre either, since covid, as no viable PT options.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958984#Comment_120958984

Ireland's public transport system is in the condition it is in because we prioritised cars and allowed PT to become neglected. It is improving despite massive opposition but you and expect miracles within a few short resistance-filled years.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959037#Comment_120959037

No miracle required. If you want people to use it and get excited about it then build the fukin thing. Dont just talk about building it for 40 years and still not build it, and then wonder why people are still dependant on cars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958598#Comment_120958598

You mean like a driveway, have one of those.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958713#Comment_120958713

Dublin has more retail parks than any other city in the country, they are undeniably also the busiest.

Dublin has the highest percentage of car owners per capita for a capital city in western Europe, its up on 70% which is crazy when you consider the size of Dublin and the population density. If 70% of Dubs think they need a car what hope is there for the rest of the country.

Dublin has more car commuters per capita for a capital city in western Europe.

Dublin has 40,000 less daily commuters now vs pre covid numbers which will have an impact on city center retail. Walk along the Liffey towards Heuston station there are so many derelict shop fronts.

Not everybody lives in Dublin and investment in public transport outside of Dublin in regional cities has been marginal at best for as long as I can remember. I would love to have a public transport system fit for purpose but its currently not so any transport planning needs to accommodate cars when its still the most viable option for the majority.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959121#Comment_120959121

Very good. Dublin has a lot of people! That's why it has a lot of things!! However, the truth remains, the majority of people in Dublin use public transport to access the city. And you're right, we need huge investment in the city to give the people what they want, improved public transport.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959041#Comment_120959041

Firstly, it has really only been in the last few years that actual investment in PT has been made - the past 40 years saw very little happen bar a few major projects e.g. Luas but no large scale plan - previously it was piecemeal at best.

As for building it, there has been massive opposition to PT improvements from NIMBY resident groups, people not wanting to give up garden space for bus lanes both of whom have been backed by populist politicians. PLus (as per this thread) you also get people committed to their cars who don't want to see existing road space shared with anyone else - again many of whom have been backed up by populist politicians.

The problem here is that we want our cars and this has been encouraged by TDs and councillors through massive investment in infrastructure. We've created a culture whereby one can safely assume a right to be able to drive somewhere - it simply goes without question. The political backbone to encourage people out of that expensive culture hasn't been there.

magicbastarder

good news is that they're doing preparatory works for the metro near where i live - AFAIK they're confirming the location of all the services in anticipation of the actual work starting?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959483#Comment_120959483

So what you are trying to say is that it has been all talk and still no adequate public transport in Ireland? If its not 40 years its damned close to it. I cant remember the first i heard of metro north or dart underground or dundalk electric or transport 21. I was a young man then anyway. Im retired now.

Build it and people will use it. Very simple. If you build a sh!t network then people wont/cant use it, so dont do that either. Build it properly so people can get around Ireland easily. Look at the UK as an example. I lived there for years. Even if you were out in the sticks a hundred miles from a city you could use public transport very easily. In Ireland you cant. Even in Dublin you cant. Very few people who drive want to be driving if they could avoid it. But the alternatives are like torture.

Like I said. Stop talking about the future and build something worthy of the future and people will just use it. Until its there we are stuck with the inadequate infrastructure we have now.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959534#Comment_120959534

I wasn't talking about the future - public transport imporvements are happening now. We now have a number of 24hr routes, etc. Where I live (Leixlip), there are more services both into Dublin and around orbital routes to Celbridge, Naas, Blanch, Red Cow, etc. We just need more improvements - a lot of the delays were down to opposition to change and misinformation.

However, in the past there was a lot of bullshit spouted by politicians about improvements which never happened because the money wasn't put on the table or whatever. I remember the various announcements too.

Much of Transport 21 happened but unfortunately the celtic tiger bubble bursting put an end to it.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959489#Comment_120959489

Weren't they talking about the Dublin metro lines in 2007? I thought it was due for completion in 2014, no?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0705/90863-metro/

This is a huge issue with public transport, that it takes so long to get anything actually built. Another huge advantage that cars have

magicbastarder

this is ireland. the urgent drives out the important.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957175#Comment_120957175

Care is needed here as if you reduce the cars access the car drivers will just go to the retail parks and shopping centres as is happening in Limerick

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958976#Comment_120958976

How many people were in the household you were shopping for?

Suggesting delivery services is missing thd point: there is still a vehicle involved, just someone deserves driving it. So no nett benefit in terms of vehicle reduction.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959846#Comment_120959846

They will anyway! There's always going to be people uninterested in culture, food etc...

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959846#Comment_120959846

I hardly ever go to any shopping centre or retail park these days. Everything is moving online which is the main reason for the demise of so many shops.