I resent spending money on cars, why isn't there an EV for me

Alternatively.....

1) EV technology will continue to evolve up to 2030 and beyond - both cars and infrastructure.....

So people for whome EVs don't work in 2023 will likely be driving them in 2032 happily enough.

2) worth noting that very few people in Ireland have experienced the very best of EV technology both cars and charging infrastructure in *2023*.

So no 400 mile Lucid Airs?????.

No 18 minutes to 80 percent on a 300 kW charger in a Taycan....

No driving to Rome in a Tesla with the car guiding you to superchargers along the way - with 50 percent added to the battery in 12 to 15 mins on V3 Supercharger.

No Nio battery swops in 5 mins....

Those are things happening in the wider EV world *today*.

By the time 2030 comes along I expect.....

1) cost of energy to be resolved for nothing to do with EV reasons.... Cost of electricity won't be fixed to help a Tesla driver. It will however be fixed to help 85 year old Mike who lives on an old age pension.... And Mary who employs 200 people in her family business.

2) a realisation that energy crisis probably needs more efficient use of energy. So EVs get rewarded over eFuels or hydrogen in that scenario. (Need to minimise use of current fossil fuels.

3) I think that Vehicle to grid should be here by 2035....

4) no one has yet come up with the costs of keeping older cars on the roads indefinitely as simply A to B transport. Everyone measures 40 mins at a charge point.....

No one measures the days of work needed to refurb an old ICE car just to get out of driving an EV.....

People talk of 10,000 to replace an EV battery....

But you'd quickly hit 10 k if commiting to an old car indefinitely.....

My guess.....

Current hardcore pro keeping old cars on the road normal drivers will decide that they can live with EVs after all.

Especially as the benchmark in 2035 isn't going to be a 40 kwh Nissan Leaf and 45 mins at a 50 kW charger in a wet and dark yard in Carlow....

It will be....

"Added 100 miles in 8 mins at a purpose built charging hub fully lit with excellent facilities. Had a coffee - came out and we had 170 miles added because the car was ready before we were"

No. And it looks you base your entire argument on maths you haven't even done? Not even "man math"?

Here's a quick one for you. I pay 7.9c per kWh night rate incl. VAT. I also have a large solar PV setup so I charge my car in summer from the sun, but I will disregard that

My large luxury EV uses about 20kWh per 100km, so costs about 20kWh * 8.5c (including charging losses) => €0.017 per km

If I had a similar large luxury petrol car, it would use about 11l per 100km or €1.56*11l => €0.17 per km

Petrol car costs 10 times as much as EV to fuel!

Currently 18 to 20 k EVs are typically 2nd hand Zoes, Leafs and original Ioniqs.....

However an MG4 is 27 k new - point been that we can expect over the coming years for EV prices to become cheaper when you account for inflation.

Trying to guess 2030 outcomes based on 2023 limitations is tricky.

Manufacturers like VW are aiming to deliver smaller cars.

Like this for 2025.....

Bear in mind inflation also would rise the i20s price by then.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-id-2all-concept-previews-sub-%C2%A322k-electric-car-2026

At least you're coming up with some math now 😘

Of course an EV is not cheaper for everyone. An old biddy happy with doing 500km per year going to church in her 1993 Toyota Starlet 1.0l, is better off just keeping that car. Better for the planet too. But for someone buying a brand new family size car, it really is a no brainer now based on total cost of ownership alone. If you don't believe it, do some sums for yourself. Say VW Tiguan diesel vs VW ID.4 electric doing 20k km per year

I bought an EV because they're much nicer to daily drive and generally nippy and quite well equipped. I didn't spend anything extra for an EV, I just bought a car I liked at a price point that I could afford. The major cost savings have just been an extra benefit.

I'm also on the magic 7.9c unit rate until September, so the first government electricity credit covered my entire 2022 driving with a few quid left over to put towards my €120 motor tax and the €145 I had to pay for a "service". Insurance also dropped by €80.

Expecting my unit rate to double in a few months but even then, I'll still be quids in at around €3 per 100kms.

Law of averages and what the majority have should be used here

Most electric cars do 15-20kWh/100km average 17kWh/100km

Most modern diesels will do 55-65mpg (4.5-5L/100km) average 4.75L/100km

Meaning 4.75L of fuel does the same as 17kWh of electricity, or 1 liter of fuel does the equivalent of about 3.6kWh

Most people are paying €1.60 for a liter of diesel, an equivalent of 44c/kWh while most people pay 49c per kWh or an equivalent of €1.76/L

So it's completely fair to say that for the majority the cost of fuel is higher at the moment in EVs.

However.... What is likely to happen when OPEC cut their output later this year and our electricity suppliers cut their prices later this year?

Also worth remembering that servicing is much cheaper, no timing belt, cam belt, fuel filter, exhaust or catalytic converter

49c per kwh, er wut?

Current cheapest night rate is less than 14c (and falling to be honest)

That's what a very large group of EV owners in the country are paying right now. Possibly even the majority. But even if you just compare a mid size 50MPG diesel at €1.60 to a mid size EV doing 17kWh at the currently best rate available of 11c for EV slot night rate and take into account 10% charging losses, the EV is still 75-80% cheaper than diesel per km

No matter what way anyone is trying to twist this, EVs are cheaper to fuel. Even if you had a 100MPG diesel, the EV would cost only half to fuel

Obviously this applies to an EV owner who charges mostly at home or free at work (as the overwhelming majority of EV owners do). If you charge your EV at fast chargers only, there isn't much in it either way. Depending on the charger and the rates, they might even be more expensive than diesel

Those reports are always flawed. They seem to take the standard rate of the main incumbent utility company (formerly state monopoly) without any deductions. The people that pay 49c on a 24/7 rate and never shop around deserve no sympathy.

Buying an EV is a bit like saying i will buy a Pub so i can have cheap pints, yes you will get Cheap Pints (cost per km) but you had to buy a pub (Capital cost of car, solar panels, chargers) to get your cheap pint. But at least you can get to sit at the bar and tell everybody you have a cheap pint.

Until the capital costs come done it absolutely makes no sense to buy an EV, especially for a family.

I am not anti EV, i have often came close to pushing the Order now button on a Tesla but my Return on Investment brain says No

Even if an EV was more expensive to run, right up to significantly more expensive to run, I would still choose to own and drive one over an ICE now. Having made the move there is no looking back.

When did EV buying become a commodity exercise where you end up comparing energy ratings of household appliances?