I resent spending money on cars, why isn't there an EV for me

MojoMaker

That's a lower trim level and also a manual gearbox (yuk) so you've got to head up to the DSG options to get a realistic comparison. 40,880 before dealer charges so it's actually more expensive than the Model 3 here.

Time to take that €7K purchase cost delta off the table above I think.

Also- 116bhp? Sweet Jesus.

eusap

The VW website must be different to the mobile site

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530991#Comment_120530991

You will never be able to compare apples and apples, but what you can compare is a normal customer (not car nut) who wants to buy a new car, has had a diesel all his life doesn't mind manual etc... there is not a financial incentive to buy an EV. If he wants to save the planet and already has solar panels etc... and wants the latest gadget then there are plenty of options for EV but its not going to save him a fortune like most will tell you. I am now considering pressing the order button on the tesla again (not for financial savings)

crisco10

OK, but by your own calculations, the OPEX difference for the first 100k km is €9,500. (or €1,900 per year at 20k km per year). Readjusting only the sales price of the tesla, reduces the CAPEX gap to €4.5k (if you accept that a low spec manual golf is the equivalent to a Tesla for spec). At that rate, you've paid back your initial premium in more like 2.5 years, which is shorter than the standard PCP duration. I.e. even over 3 years PCP you win.

In my case, I did the sums for Skoda Octavia v IONIQ 5 (new v new obviously) at 15k a year, and reckon I will be ahead by year 4 to 5. Which given I plan to hold onto the car for 8 years is a no brainer.

EDIT: I really think you are making the opposite point you are trying to make BTW. Those numbers demonstrate the investment case for EV's very well.

Cyrus

if a manual diesel golf with half the bhp is your direct comparison then im not sure what to say, i know what id rather drive.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530977#Comment_120530977

You are still using the incorrect purchase price for the model 3. And I’d nearly use a higher offer for electrical costs as the 10c rates are not around at the moment. The model 3is an every day people’s car now that it’s cheaper to buy and run over 5 years than a golf.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530977#Comment_120530977

Using your example with real world values.

The gold can be adjusted if it’s cheaper or swap to a 1.0 TSi.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530992#Comment_120530992

first off you have picked the absolute base spec, so spec-wise, vehicle segment-wise, power wise entirely an inferior car (and im not tesla fanboy).

Then you have taken the rrp not the on the road price (which is 1,705 higher for dealer delivery) of 37,310.

if you want to use man maths to illustrate a point it needs to be a bit more realistic.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531027#Comment_120531027

Nearly one third the power!

116v 280ish

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531060#Comment_120531060

even worse!

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531056#Comment_120531056

i took the base model, base spec of both cars as you will never match the specs

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530844#Comment_120530844

What sort of maths is that? 😂

Total fuel cost + purchase price= total cost of ownership over 5 years? Nothing about maintenance, depreciation, motor tax, tolls? 😁 Depreciation alone for the Golf would be thousands more than on the Tesla.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531093#Comment_120531093

But still messed up the cost to buy.

Look at my table. I used a more favorable diesel cost, a higher electricity cost and ignored the servicing of the ICE and the Tesla is still cheaper.

Would be more savings with an MG, BYD etc

cgorzy

For me I would compare the models I would buy. So in Ice would I pay for automatic over manual etc decide on a model and do the same for the EV. The spec may be quite different but they would be what I decide between. Cost would be just one factor in deciding. There are different types of buyers of new cars and my feeling is each to their own. All I would say is if I buying an EV to save money it is probably worth knowing how likely it is that it will work out cheaper.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530844#Comment_120530844

So what you are saying is that if you include servicing costs and repairs of maybe €1k/year on the ICE and €100 a year on the EV you're in effect saving €4,500/5year? €7,500 on the Tesla with proper pricing

Of course, because Tesla is one of the most expensive cars out there... If you instead compared to a more cost friendsly car such as MG (30k), opel/peugeot (32-36k) you'd get much more favourable savings

eusap

Even changing the figures and comparing to an ID3

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530915#Comment_120530915

M3 is 57.5kWh usable battery (60kWh total) and 400km range

Meaning 14.3kWh/100km, 143Wh/km or about 7km/kWh just using the maths of the supplied figures

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531226#Comment_120531226

Updated

eusap

With service costs

kanuseeme

Is the grant still 5000 euro? Its going to be reduced I believe.

Maybe another similar/better comparison would be Kia niro, if you compare the hybrid with the EV, you would get a more realistic fuel use, the difference between urban and motor way would not be as big as a 520d.

mailforkev

We've been transported into crazy town here, comparing a base VW Golf diesel with a Tesla Model 3. A GTI would be more realistic.

If anything a Model 3 is about 15 grand cheaper than it's vaguely comparable rivals, which I would see as something like a 3 series or A4.

I am neither a Tesla owner nor fanboy but a Model 3 is an absolute bargain at 40 grand, that is a fairly cheap car these days.

eusap

I changed the variable to 3 years and included if you disposed of the car

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531291#Comment_120531291

we moved on from tesla

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531241#Comment_120531241

Why are you putting in a 40k Golf?

This thread was created because I said where is the replacement for my Kona that I got brand new for 21k and I'm just an ordinary man that's not prepared to spend a years salary of 45k on an ID3, for 45k I'd want to be in a Merc or nice BMW, not a boxy cheap goofy looking ID3

I think the new Fabia is a fabulous little car, it's 20k and will sell well. Where is the EV equivalent of that?

Do up a spreadsheet of an EV to take on the 20k Fabia :)

mailforkev

The average price of a new car in Ireland last year was close to 40k, so it's actually a good price point to work from.

https://www.independent.ie/news/average-price-of-a-new-car-in-ireland-soared-by-4500-with-a-third-of-the-cost-going-to-vat-and-vrt/42013676.html

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528417#Comment_120528417

It might not be a lie, but it is disingenuous to say that "Petrol car costs 10 times as much as EV to fuel!", particularly for anyone considering one and reading this thread today. Under very select criteria that may be true, but isn't representative of the market whatsoever.

1. 7.9c is not available to people today, and if you charge outside of home even say 10% of the time on Ionity (71c/kWh), the average cost of electricity would approximately double.
2. I know that the justification for the 745i or S500 comparison will be engine power, but we know that a Model S trumps absolutely everything in BHP terms, so choosing absolutely the most inefficient competitors here totally skews results. If boot space was my yardstick, the closest competitor a to a 40k Superb Combi is a 75k E-Class - an unfair comparison.

Correct for the above and most EV's probably comes in at ballpark 1/3 or 1/2 the fuel cost in totality of a car in a similar class. Even at this rate, subtract servicing, insurance, etc. and the EV will be cheaper to run of course.

I'm not anti-EV whatsoever, I just don't think a "petrol vs EV" argument should be settled using an 745i vs an unavailable night rate. After running similar figures with my brother, it turned out a 33k brand new leaf would breakeven with a 22k second-hand Golf in just about 3 years - so that's what he went for at it was a great choice.

eusap

I think the conclusion is "You can't use figures to compare Cars" buy the car YOU Want and are happy to drive

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531362#Comment_120531362

of course you can, you just need to be sensible when doing it.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531354#Comment_120531354

It's only cheaper because the tax on fuel is huge.

Unkel would not be driving a Model S if fuel was 50c a litre, he'd be in a S500 or 750i

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531314#Comment_120531314

out of interest i done the Kona