I resent spending money on cars, why isn't there an EV for me

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531348#Comment_120531348

Yeah, was looking at the RRP's for a bunch of the most popular sellers in Ireland over 2022/2023: (This years TOP 10, plus Kona and Kodiaq which did well in 2022)

I just took the median price of all the specs listed on the SIMI website (https://www.simi.ie/en/motorstats/recommended-price-guide)

Apart from the Yaris and Corolla, all the other top sellers are above 30k. And then if you exclude the Kona, the remaining 8 models are €35k+

PS; some serious inflation on new Kona Prices, the cheapest base spec is now €28k, which is 33% higher than €21k.

So while Fabia may be a great car (and I agree, used to own one), that segment of car is not selling well compared to CUV/SUV.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531362#Comment_120531362

respectfully disagree. You can use figures to compare cars, however comparing specs of different brands is quite subjective.

Nonetheless, it is possible to agree a reasonable baseline and then use figures to compare.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531362#Comment_120531362

You can if you use the correct figures which unfortunately you haven’t from the start.

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531427#Comment_120531427

whats wrong with the figures for the VW Golf / VW ID3 comparission ??

MojoMaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531393#Comment_120531393

I'm not sure about that at all actually.

There's an enormous amount of "been there, done that" about ICE cars now. Once you've switched over to EV, let alone to a premium or performance EV, there isn't much in the ICE field to attract you to be honest. It's a different way of appreciating motoring, that just so happens to be (in the main) cheaper right now. Temporarily cheaper or otherwise, but always better.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531400#Comment_120531400

Kona starts at 25,895 and the 64kWh EV starts at 42,995

Also I don't see cost of credit in your calculation or are all EV's owners loaded and don't do pcp loans?

Limerick Motor Centre | Used Cars Limerick | New Hyundai Limerick | New Isuzu Limerick | Used Car Finance Limerick

Kona EV | Hyundai

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531018#Comment_120531018

Thats a fair point. And lets be honest. Most people dont really actually care a whole lot about the environment. If they did they would be buying solar panels and heat pumps with the money they spend on their EV and drop the car altogether.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531354#Comment_120531354

Valid points, I just did the comparison for my current car vs my past cars that are comparable. And I made that very clear.

Everybody should compare the cars they short list for buying. But it is no doubt fair to say that even if you had to sign up for a new electricity tariff today, presuming you did at least 90% of your charging at home, a typical EV would be at most half the cost to fuel compared to a comparable ICE car

And fuel is only the start of it. Believe me, you do not want to be selling a 5 year old diesel that you bought new today in 5 years time as nobody will want to buy one, unless it is dirt cheap. But I guess most people don't believe me, still buy new diesels, and will find out the hard way. They won't be able to blame anyone but themselves...

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531555#Comment_120531555

Not to re-hash the specs discussion, but any reason you chose base model ICE and not the base model EV (€34k, not €43k)?

Difference in PCP payments between those 2 is only €40 per month on that link you just sent.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531555#Comment_120531555

The link you provided shows base EV at €34,995. Why didn’t you use that figure when comparing to the base 1.0 petrol at €25,800?

mailforkev

That's it, all each person can do is compare the best for their own situation and in my case I'm quids in.

Just worked out my numbers from last year and the total cost to drive around in a brand new car loaded with all the toys for just over 8,000kms was less than €650.

That's tax, insurance, "service" and electricity. Paid cash so no interest. Even if you add on the one-off cost of the charger (which I consider a home improvement) it only goes up to €1250. Obviously I'm not including depreciation, as I'd be suffering that no matter what I bought, and it wouldn't be realised until changing time.

DownByTheGarden

Im trying to do the calculations with a trade in on a model 3.

Is there any link on their purchase website to see what kind of trade in value they willo give you on your diesel.

If there is I cant find it.

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531700#Comment_120531700

the base ICE has nearly 2k of delivery related charges to be added to it

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531745#Comment_120531745

So the figures mean nothing?

What are the real figures?

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531745#Comment_120531745

And this alters the point that you deliberately picked the higher priced version of the EV how exactly?????.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531717#Comment_120531717

Google “Tesla trade in”

Theres more to the internet than boards 🤣🤣

https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/tradein

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531818#Comment_120531818

I literally went to to the Hyundai website and took these two figures and added 2k to both for delivery charges

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531648#Comment_120531648

Which is why buying an ICE car now of decent value, NOT on PCP is a bad idea. Sure PCP GMFV mightn't be great, but at least it's guaranteed.

Imagine pay 27k for a 3yo Golf, with Zero guarantee of what it'll be worth in 3 years time. There's a very good reason that VW PCP APR has gone to 9.9% for an ICE Golf, and 1.9% for an ID.3.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530977#Comment_120530977

What I find curious is that the purchase price of the Tesla, that you used, was pointed out to be significantly wrong yet you kept pushing that figure above and you haven't acknowledged that you were wrong with your original assertions about 6yr payback and analogies about pubs and pints!

Instead you have "moved on" as you put it (i.e. moved the goalposts) and are now comparing other cars because it didn't suit your agenda to say you were wrong. You can pick loads of spurious examples to make a point.

Just to clarify, do you have any vested interest in ICE.... car sales/parts or anything like that?

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531902#Comment_120531902

I'm not gonna drive around the slowest charging car on the market, the 39kWh Kona is absolute rubbish, takes an hour to charge and does about 200km on the motorway

I don't care about spec, base Kona is 25k and base 300km motorway range EV is 43k

The 39kWh Kona is so bad it shouldn't even be on sale, it chargers slow than 10 year old LEAF

Why can't I buy the 64kWh in base spec like the ICE?

I don't want or need heated seat for 8k more or need 200bhp

The thing about current EV's like Kona and eNiro on sale now is you think you have a choice but you don't.

You have to get ones with good specs and you clap like a seal saying thanks

eusap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531953#Comment_120531953

When it became clear that the comparison between a golf and a Tesla was not considered like for like i changed it to be same brand similar size.

The analogies about buying a pub to get cheap pints is still correct, if i want to pay €3 per 100km instead of €10 for diesel for driving i first need to spend 40-60k, which is not for everybody.

If anything the last posts about the Kona / VW actually show its cheaper to own an EV over 3 years than an ICE due to depreciation being less, I don't have any vested interest in ICE or EV just a confused consumer trying to make sense of a changing car market.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531969#Comment_120531969

Manufacturers make higher margins selling higher spec models. They aren't interested in selling low margin lower spec models whilst their still ramping up EV production lines.

There are plenty of people who buy cars who don't want a low spec box with a battery on wheels. Those are the current target market.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532017#Comment_120532017

When it became clear that the comparison between a golf and a Tesla was not considered like for like i changed it to be same brand similar size.

OK, but the Tesla would be considered much better than the Golf and it was cheaper to run so it blew your original assertions out the window, so I dont understand why you needed to move the goalposts.

An acknowledgement that your figures were way off would have helped I think and you continued to use the €43k figure for the Tesla even though you were shown you were wrong... it just looked like you had an agenda.

And tbf you seem to be coming around to it now...

If anything the last posts about the Kona / VW actually show its cheaper to own an EV over 3 years

I don't have any vested interest in ICE or EV just a confused consumer trying to make sense of a changing car market.

Thats fair enough too. There is alot to learn on the EV side.... kW's and kWh's and charging infrastructure and range etc etc. You can be forgiven for not knowing it all! 😀

I would exclude depreciation costs in any calculations as none of us have a crystal ball so you will be 100% guessing the depreciation (EV and ICE). If we were in a normal functioning market with no ongoing wars, cost of living crisis, supply constraints etc you could predict reasonably accurately what your depreciation would be but the market is all over the place the last few years due to supply shortages and second hand cars going up in value... its pointless trying to second guess depreciation out for the next 3-5yrs. You just have to make a call on depreciation and take a chance that you call it right. Purchase and running costs are much easier to compare so stick with those.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532017#Comment_120532017

The same was true for second hand diesels back around 2015... There was huge savings on fuel to be made but the cars were more expensive than the petrol equivalent, the same can be said for electrically assisted internal combustion engine (hybrid) cars in the last few years, vastly more expensive than petrol equivalent but there were savings in fuel...

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531969#Comment_120531969

Why can't I buy the 64kWh in base spec like the ICE?

Because the manufacturers dont want to provide that, yet. They have even said it publicly. They are focussing on the higher margin, higher spec versions first, partly due to supply constraints but also simple profit reasons.

Nothing any of us can do about that.

If your current car buying philosophy is to buy the cheapest entry level spec ICE then you may find it hard to justify a switch to EV particularly if you have low mileage. If you do above average mileage then it starts to make sense.

However, most people dont have this mindset of buying the cheapest they can get. They tend to plumb for the higher specs and hence that's what you should compare.

e.g. If, for example, your normal purchase decision is to buy an auto diesel mid spec VW Tiguan at €48k then compare that to the ID.4, Model Y etc. EV can actually be cheaper to buy not to mind to run over 5+ years. If you compare the entry level Tiguan its going to look like EV is expensive to buy but they are not comparable really.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532076#Comment_120532076

Exactly, thanks Liam

And it will never be available, the base price of 40k for a 400-500km EV is gonna be here for a long long time, the BOM on EV's is ridiculous, it costs 20k to replace a 500km petrol tank and 150bhp engine in an EV

It's just impossible to make a 400-500km Fabia EV for 20k

Dacia will bring out an EV Duster soon and it will be shockingly expensive compared to ICE duster now

It's sad that in the the future you will have to spend a years salary to buy a car.

unkel

@Stevie2001 - "It's sad that in the the future you will have to spend a years salary to buy a car."

Don't be dramatic. There's a Leaf for sale on DoneDeal for about €2k. That's a month's salary for someone on the minimum wage.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532500#Comment_120532500

Brand new? A brand new Leaf was 22k a few years years ago

Min wage is 1.6k

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532438#Comment_120532438

That Dacia and was due last year too.

But you don’t have to spend a years salary. That’s YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532531#Comment_120532531

Has anyone on minimum wage ever been the target market for new car sales?