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SCEP or Sceptical

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  • 21-03-2023 8:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭


    Read the t&Cs today and did the calculation, comparing it with the combined bdgp and beep-s payment that it replaces.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    And are you getting around the same payment? I think I am. But will have to genotype more animals so that expense will increase. Still think it’s too much to leave behind me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭893bet


    It’s easy money for us who are 100 percent AI. Don’t really have to worry about the stars and everything else takes care of it self really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    This is exactly what my advisor said to me today. I do nearly it all anyway so might as well get something for it. Only additional thing would be the bord BIA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Micey.ie


    I had a 4 star bull last year that had genotyped evaluation results out on the July proofs in 2022-wonder is he eligible?

    says on t/c that calves have to be from a genotyped 4/5 star bull at time of service.-He would have served cows in May/June before the July Proofs we’re out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,196 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Still a small few sucklers here, hobby for the boss really, but I'm not going in because no way am I making another 5 Yr commitment to them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    Small suckler with 12 or 13 cows. Not for me. Have to keep calves 5 months min, there's always a few late ones and don't want to keep them in winter months. Also, deduction for genotyping cost, training day cost, pay for the scales rental, penalty if sell calves under 5 months. Just not worth the hassle



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    I am going to apply as I was in BDGP & BEEP-S schemes already so doing the requirements of the scheme, only difference is the higher % of cows that are needed to the 4 & 5 star. I have some 1 star cows which I rate very highly, under this scheme there will be less space to carry these type of cows.

    The requirement to genotype 70% per year will mean sampling bull calves / bullocks every year. You would think they could combine the Genotyping with the BVD sampling then all animals within the herd would be genotyped and it would save on costs.

    @ €150 / cow we will be be down a few euro on the combined payment of the BDGP & BEEP-S schemes with more or less the same work so that is disappointing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,961 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Surely the training day won't cost you anything? Normally get paid for these type of things for lads that miss out on a days work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,961 ✭✭✭endainoz


    The 150 a cow is more of an average, it might vary a bit depending on the reference number.

    The journal had a better way of explaining it. I'm down a bit from the genomics scheme and beeps but don't really have much of a choice but to apply for it. Have to try to replace the schemes that are ending, similar with ACRES and GLAS.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    @endainoz that is just it, you have to try and make the best use of whatever payments you can get and try to work them to your advantage. The BEEP-S was really just money for jam and was very handy the only bit of additional work was the dung samples as I would be feeding some meal before weaning every year anyway.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Got the text about it and will probably go for it, not sure yet how much it will be worth as we have cut cow numbers a good bit.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    I didn't notice that 5 month criteria. That could catch a couple of lads out based on some of the age of weanlings you do see going through the mart in Oct & Nov.

    Pity that they can't just use the sample when you tag for bvd & do 100% genotyping then. Save alot of hassle!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,961 ✭✭✭endainoz


    But then the poor labs and mullinahone won't make a few pound.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    Have to take a day off work and this time they are not paying for doing the course



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,961 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Ah yes your are correct, it say no payment in the terms and conditions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    lLogin into ICBF, under Services access the BDGP

    Under the DAM tab, select years, between 2016 and 2021, to see cows calved for each individual year. Take you best 3 years and calc average.

    This average is divided by 1.5 to obtain your maximum eligible Hectares.

    the first 15 HA is @ €225 and the balance @ €180

    That's my interpretation, anyone think differently?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,961 ✭✭✭endainoz




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    I think that entering this scheme will spell the end of stock bulls on farms. To make the necessary steps to increase the star rating of stock it will require either high starred cows,or a high high star rated bull. This will put serous cost on the system to meet the requirements of the scheme.

    The only real cost effective way is to be selective ai and culling. For most suckler farmers the thought of ai is a killer, from the time perspective, facilities, farm fragmentation and part time work. The only real means to achieving it and not having penalties on the payment, is either buy a super high starred bull, sync all breeding stock or invest in heat detection technology



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭Rusheseverywhere


    THe problem as I see it is that all the emphaise is on the replacment value of the cow. I have seen lots of AA and HEX off Fr or Ho cows that are 5 star and nearly 200 replacement but there progeny will not be as good as those of suckler bred cows; that as most of mine are 3 star. I see that they are bringing in CBV and surely same rational apply to dry stock lads you must have 5 star cattle as they are the most efficent greenest etc ie kill soonest at best weight. To produce those you need cows that are high terminal value and they are not going to be dairy cross cows.

    All the cattle I have are 300 plus on CBV ie 5 star.

    For me would have to get rid off all my cows to be in the scheme and even if I could do that think value of weanlings would make up for scheme. I hope so!



  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    If you genotyped a number of this years calves now as they are small, would that cover you for the scheme? As in they would be already done say by the summer when they send out the tags. Always find it harder to be doing them then rather as calves when they would be inside anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭893bet


    This scheme is only replacing bdgp though it includes elements from beeps.


    there is a second scheme in works I think according to Agriland that replaces beeps



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    With 30 cows it’s worth 4 1/2 grand. Don’t think I can afford to leave that behind me. Sickens me to have to get back into Bord Bia though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭tellmeabit


    Same boat here with 14 as reference number. Can't see myself getting the stars on cows. Have few heifers that are 5 but am happy with the calves cows produce. Would teynand hit 5 star bulls alright



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭MeheeHohee


    Anyone know if you have signed up to this can you now sell weanlings? If i've signed up, can I record weights and then sell, even though the scheme is't up on ICBF yet, I can just manually put in weights under weight recording?



  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Would u have got money out of them from last years scheme? Weighed them in October or anything?



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭MeheeHohee


    No wouldn't have been in last scheme, they would be august /sept calves, generally weigh the autumn calves in the spring before weining / selling and get the beep payment



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    @893bet yes I read in the Journal yesterday evening that there is a beeps scheme coming in at €65 per cow. So over all up to €215 for the first 22 cows €4,730 before deductions, that would be nearly 4 extra weanlings so not to be sneezed at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Katie 2018


    Were can I check my star rating of my cows I wasn't in the last scheme bdgp



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    You have to be registered with ICBF to see the cow's star rating, using your herd number and username. There is an annual subscription.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    I would check with the higher orders before you sell them. Be gutted to have got rid of them and you hadn’t weighed them etc.



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