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SCEP or Sceptical

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭tanko


    What is the average calving interval of these two star cows?



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭SuperTeeJay


    You can see the myostatin results on herdplus from any calves you have got dna tested in the last 2/3 years.Saves you the additional charge .You can't see it from the mobile app.Only on desktop version.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    So spent time with Advisor today getting the details right for this. He said in my case as I was never in BDGP more than likely my cows will be genotyped 1st as I'll need 50% 4/5 star by end of year to meet scheme.

    I've joined anyway. Just need to sort BordBia out



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭tanko


    I assume you have to sign up to herdplus with ICBF to join the SCEP?

    That will tell you the stars for your animals pretty quick



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What if 80% of your cows / heifers are already 4/5 stars? Surely there is a little bonus?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,965 ✭✭✭893bet


    It’s 80 percent of reference number required?

    so if you have 15 cows divide by 1.5 to get 10 as reference number.80 percent of 10 is 8. So 8/15?cows need to be 4/5 star.


    thst correct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Lots in the BDGP had the same cow from the start, were 80% on stars until the last year when some slipped to 3’s. They were out buying star heifers to comply



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Stationmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Also, can a cow's stars increase and, if so, how?! Thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Yeah they can, as an animal has more calves they generally increase, add to that progeny that get slaughtered at a certain weight, how their siblings get on, how their sires progeny perform. Loads of factors involved, how do they calculate all these stats? No idea but there's a lot involved, much of the time it's out of the farmers control.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    They can increase but I have very rarely seen it, the only 1 I have that increased was 1 that was sired by a weanling calf belong to a neighbor. She was a nice quite CH heifer so I kept her for a cow. When I got her DNA'ed first she was a 1 star animal now she is a 3 star. What I see is most mine stated off 4 -5 star and have been dropping since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    We had a one star cow, calf every year and good weaning weights. She was rated minus €22 on replacement. She got an improved rating in her final year, minus €19



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭tanko


    ICBF are obsessed with fertility, if a cow isn’t calving every 365 days or close to it, stars suffer, 393 is pretty high, losing a month every year. I’m not saying it’s right but that how they look at things. Overall it’s a flawed system, ICBF were told to come up with a system and schemes to fook up Suckler farming and that’s what they’re doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Packrat


    I'd say it's more a scheme which suits pedigree cattle more so than commercials.

    Definitely continental biased.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    in that example you would only need 5 calved cows if you had 3 heifers that are 4 or 5 star. As there is a provision that 50% of your qualifying animals need to be calved cows

    (that’s my reading of it anyways



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    If they were 4 stars when they were genotyped They were eligible at the end of the scheeme



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Unless they left your herd then they became ineligible for the buyer



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    It definitely is a flawed system. I joined last week and as I posted in the chic chat thread nearly all the feeder cull dairy cows that are in the herd are 5 star including pure Jersey and crossbred Jersey cows. It's a ridiculous system that promotes dairy beef over beef bred animals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    That’s been mentioned here before, also a bias to PG/Munster bulls. Herdplus has done harm to beef production, but maybe that’s the intention



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Cows that were genotyped at start of scheme as 4 stars qualified. Even though they are 1 star now



  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    I have given up trying to understand how they calculate star ratings for cows. It's a pile of nonsense if you ask me. I think its gimmick to sell more of c AI straws to be honest. Attached is a screenshot of one of my worst rated cows. One star since forever. 12 lactation, 16 calves, adg never below 1kg even with multiple sets of twins. And mainly heifer calves. Bulls hitting above 1.4 to 1.5kg. Extremely quiet, good for milk. Calving interval of exactly 365 over 12 lactations. She wouldn't breed my best calf but she would hold her own in the middle of the pack. You would think with that much data behind a cow she would be higher than 1 star. She is not my only example of abnormal star scoring. Some too high, some to low. Wouldn't instill confidence in the calculations/genomic testing



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Seanhorse91


    Same as that. Pedigree Limousin cow by sympa. Always bred well. 1 bull was reserve junior champion in roscrea and exported. 13 calves, and a calving interval of 352 days.

    Replacement index of €51 then after all that





  • Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Interesting article on Agriland about weanling weights from starred cows -




  • Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Have any of ye got a letter yet with your reference number? Or is it on agfood?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭tanko


    It’s on Agfood, click on SCEP, the numbers for the six years and the reference number are there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    I signed up there a week or so ago and I now see on ICBF I have a "Pre SCEP Report" which has a "Listing of all beef females in your herd born on/before 30th June 2022 and their Replacement Index details".

    Over 70% of the cattle on my list are currently 4 or 5 star and over 110% of my reference number. it would be interesting to see if the figures are the same at the end of the 5 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Interesting as in no definitive conclusion can be obtained to say the star rating is progressing beef progeny. Less than half of the 1000e weanlings are from 4 and 5 star herds and over half are from 1 to 3 star herds. Marginal difference at best. If the star rating was credible this differential should be significantly higher. Load of assumptions then from the icbf commentator about meal quantity fed and cow size with no data to back it up. Its no wonder there's still no increase in certainty around the star rating since 2015 if this is the level of data analysis the icbf are presenting. If a 12 year old presented that you would have to bite your tongue instead of laughing i out of the room. Another quango masquerading as intellects.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I think you can’t really blame ICBF for all the flaws in the system. They can only go on the information that they are given by us. It’s so much easier for accurate dairy information with milk recording etc.

    In beef it’s a lot harder to get accurate information, one of the ‘best’ farmers in our dg had dlwg of 1.7 all bulls killed u 16 months. Teagasc thought it was fantastic.


    One of the other lads in the group does ai so he knew when the cows were served. Let’s just say the birthday was a bit off.

    now the gestation period is ‘a bit off’

    cow 365 calving is ‘a bit off’

    weaning weight is a ‘bit off’

    lifetime dlwg is ‘a bit off’

    The only thing that is accurate is the CW and grade. Then people come on here and blame ICBF for bullshit stars.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    There is inaccuracies been input for sure. But these would be consistent across the entierity of data range and should balance out. All one needs to do is look inside there own herd and compare the stars across their cows and try comprehend why some cows are rated 1 star when they should be 4 or 5 and why some cows are 4 or 5 when they should be 1. Surely the guy that inputs incorrect birth dates is doing it for his 1 star cows as well as his 5 star cows.



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