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SCEP or Sceptical

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  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭Rusheseverywhere


    The problem is there is nowhere to input their weights. Scheme application closes last day of May and by sound of dates on terms and conditions gos live the 1st July also you need to input weights under the old scheme within 7 days of weighing them so hard see how manage it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    I’d email the department for advice on what to do if they were mine. If you sell them there’s no way back then



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭Dozer1


    I weighed mine last week and inputted the weights in ICBF, same as I always have done I imagine this is what most will do. was able to book the scales etc as normal via the online system



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    I imagine you can sell away because they were not born during the upcoming scheme



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭Rusheseverywhere


    Yeah but that is just weight recording. To record for the scheme was a different section and when you click on that it says "RECORDING FOR BEEP-S CLOSED AT 5:30PM ON 1ST NOVEMBER 2022" cut and paste job so in Caps.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    Submitted application today….



  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭zetor 4911


    Anyone joining this scheme would what to read the terms and conditions particularly pages 14 to 18 on penalties. Very punitive penalties for breaches of scheme rules more so than the previous scheme. Tread with care.



  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭Jack C


    From Ts & Cs.

     "Applicants are required to ensure that by the 31st October 2023 at least 50% of their yearly reference number are eligible females that are genotyped 4 or 5 stars on the replacement index (on a within breed or on across breed basis) at the time of purchase (for replacements brought into the herd) or at the time of genotyping (for those replacements bred within the herd)."

    Does that disqualify non genotyped animals bought in and then genotyped 4 or 5* ? Surely not.

    Also what's deducted for cost of genotyping?



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭Rusheseverywhere


    So if cattle go down in stars but were 4 star or 5 star when genotyped you are ok?

    22 euros each on ICBF did it before privately, hair sample if you test privatley



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    If u look at someone with 10 calves, and have to sell weanlings in Sept or oct. say 3 calves born late and can't meet the 5 month requirement. No payment of 20% or 300 euro for no compliance, plus 10% or 150 of a penalty. Plus 50 euro to rent a scales. Plus 250 euro to genotype. So your 1500 payment is down to 750, that's a small amount of money for all the work involved , in my opinion. Plus take a day off work for training.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭zetor 4911


    Definitely would want north of 30 cows to make it worthwhile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz


    But there simply isn't any alternative. The money has to be made somehow from the other schemes that are ending.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,965 ✭✭✭893bet


    It a free money. And a couple of hoops. And the idea that you need 30 cows to make it worthwhile is not accurate IMO.


    slightly off topic but I have a 5 star replacement heifer in calf for end of year. Highest replacement index on farm I think.


    Mastitis. No idea how long she has it but I suspect 1 spin will be gone. Randomly felt her udder by accident thinking she was a different cow from behind. Very disappointing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz


    I'm not sure that's entirely correct, if the calves under 5 months don't qualify you just won't get paid for them. I don't see how someone could get penalized as well for that, I could be wrong though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    Ya on the terms and conditions it says u lose the payment for that element (20% of scheme) plus 10% penalty. That's if you comply with less than 80% of that requirement . That's what I understand from the document but open to correction



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    5 months there for a reason. Very skimpy calf coming off the cow at 4 months



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,965 ✭✭✭893bet


    If suckling why would you be weaning and selling the calves at 4 months? It’s not like you are summer grazing and have to get rid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    Just doesn't suit my system to keep them after September. Fair enough, my setup is unusual .



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Yeah I don't how anyone would have to get rid of calves so soon, the argument doesn't make much sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz


    You mean less than 80% being 4 or 5 star possibly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 freekerry


    Maybe I'm reading it wrong. In fact it's only for surveys which is 10% of payment, not the 20 I said earlier. Under 80% submitted , no payment and penalty for that bit. Surveys are on calves over 5 months



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,965 ✭✭✭893bet


    After September? No grass? That tight on shed space to keep a few calves a month or two longer.

    Its hard to keep us farmers happy anyway 😀😀 . And hard to turn a bob suckling without turning down free money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    It's going to be very difficult for everyone that joins to have 75% either 4 or 5 star by the end of the scheme. It means that 3/4s of the cows in the scheme have to be in the top 40% of the cows in the country. Not sure if that's possible really. The more frustrating part is the method of star calculation is flawed. Will likely join anyway and if the stars fall in place correctly well and good, if not will deal with the consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭50HX




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭endainoz




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭50HX


    Merely pointing out that throwing money at a suckler scheme doesn't mean you have to stay at sucklers

    I've sucklers myself but switching systems as the cow costs are excessive

    I've looked at the scheme & tbh it's v restrictive with no real option to exit b4 scheme ends

    Would suit someone who is committed to pedigree breeding as you'd meet the star ratings easily anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    Did the star system move much over bdgb? As things stand now 75% of mine are 4-5 stars but only a handful are genotyped. That's my worry with it that they'll move. Rather breed my own stars that panic buying to meet scheme



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭tanko


    The figures moved very little for me anyway, some moved from a two to a three or a three to a four if they were on the borderline but very little movement other than that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    If you haven't entered any of the suckler schemes in the past and don't intend entering this one how much does it cost to get cattle genotyped. Do ICBF offer the service without being in a scheme?



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