Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

But the price differential across the border in Ireland was substantial enough before MUP, and of course is a lot higher now on many drinks since MUP. Before MUP in Scotland there was no incentive to go to England to buy alcohol at all.

Remember our MUP level is set higher than Scotland's, our VAT rate is higher than NI (and rest of UK), our excise rate is a lot higher than NI (and rest of UK)

So MUP in Ireland took a situation where there was already an incentive to shop across the border and made that incentive bigger.

I can pop over the border in a few minutes, so that won't bother me.

Was it them who came up with the idea of the ration cards? Or where did that suggestion come from?

Nope, it's not out of thin air and frankly it is absurd to suggest that.It's on the continuum from the policies they have openly advocated for.

Likewise you also accuse me 'completely out of thin air' of lambasting them on this basis alone or directly attributing specific statements to them. How about pointing specifically to the post in which I did that- well?

And I don't think anyone who has actually read the posts on the thread could come out with a ridiculous example such as Jeffrey Epstein, when a similarly ridiculous comparison with Putin was already dealt with.

If an organisation or party started advocating for policies such as making abortions more difficult to access, and made no statement that they support abortion being legal in certain circumstances ... would it be out of thin air to question that they might be in fact ultimately set on trying to get abortion outlawed fully? Would it be illogical? Clearly not.

I am judging them exactly on what they have said AND what they have not said. Because what they have not said is directly relevant to their core area of policy. I attributed no direct statement to them NOR did I 'lambast' them specifically or solely for that. But it is reasonable to come to a conclusion about their stance and POV on an issue that directly relates to that core area.

Similarly if a manager is having a run of defeats, and the chairman \ board does NOT come out with public backing, it is entirely reasonable to conclude they they are considering the manager's position.

And as I've explained below:

Let us imagine a party which pitches itself as pacifist and in its agenda say it will cut military spending etc. It does not give any commitment to retain say a nuclear deterrent. Is a discussion that said party ultimately seeks to get rid of the nuclear deterrent based on 'rumours'? Would there be no basis for saying they plan to get rid of it? I think we can see such a standard would preclude debate of any political topic outside the present exact text of a party \ organisation's agenda or manifesto

But the latter issue around ER and Gardai resources can also be tackled by changing licensing to be less restrictive as in other european countries, so far all weve done is restrict licensing and sales and the problem of violence requiring those resources has if anything only gotten worse. However AAI are also against changes like extending hours or cafe licenses despite all available evidence showing they might very well have a positive impact. This shows clearly their fundamentalist attitude being simply "alcohol = bad".

Do you know who his dealers are, and whether they can be relied on to supply good cocaine?

I was responding to the post that said there are going to be ration cards. Not just me, but thousands more could get round that by going over the border. It would also fail because people could pass on their purchases to others. Or they could hoard their purchases and then have binges. And it would probably need overall EU agreement to reduce the import limits currently in place.

Some of my other posts are pointing out the flaws in arguments claiming that MUP is going to lead to prohibition.

Doesn't really matter. AAI are not the ones dictating this policy. This is wide political support, support from the producers, the retailers, the Vintners. While AAI might be vocalising the debate, the only reason that they are getting anywhere is that other powerful groups also want this.

It seems odd to me that people are so focused on AAI. If AAI are so powerful, why are licencing laws being amended?

You're muddying the water by using the word Reasonable. It is all over legislation (including 16 times in the Public Health (Alcohol) Act), leaving it to courts if necessary to judge what it means in any given circumstance. Just come out and say that you have definite proof.

reasonable

adj., adv. in law, just, rational, appropriate, ordinary or usual in the circumstances. It may refer to care, cause, compensation, doubt (in a criminal trial), and a host of other actions or activities.

Yes Tesco.

Well that surely makes Brexit worthwhile, eh! </SARCASM>

The VAT on alcohol and soft drinks in restaurants is still 23%.

Temporary VAT Reduction to 9% for Hospitality Sector

The VAT rate for the tourism and hospitality sector was temporarily reduced from 13.5 per cent to 9 per cent on Nov 1st 2020. This was to help the sector during Covid and was announced in Budget 2021 .

The reduced 9% VAT rate was due to end in August 2022 but it was extended until 28 February 2023 and has now been extended again to August 31st 2023.

The 9% reduced VAT rate on hospitality applies to: – catering and restaurant services (food not soft drinks or alcohol), tourist accommodation, cinemas, theatres, museums, historic houses, open farms, amusement parks, certain printed matter, and hairdressing.

*I expect people to jump in with the usual "but it's not cheap, it's the most expensive alcohol in Europe".

But it's relatively cheap, and pre MUP supermarket beer was relatively the cheapest it's ever been.

Relatively doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

In the last six EU countries I have visited namely Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Italy and Germany I could buy wine and beer cheaper in a supermarket than here. I could also buy a bottle of Irish whiskey cheaper than here.

And just for fun I'll throw in the UK which I visit more often.

In France I could buy a lovely win for 4 maybe 5 euro, here the price would be at least 12. So your comparison on salaries only works if our average salary is more than twice what there average is. FYI its not.

It is absolutely correct to say Alcohol across the board is expensive in this country in fact its correct to say its the second most expensive in the EU.

Your comparison between pubs and off sales is completely disingenuous and if you dont think its a vested interest from the vintners can you explain why they show up in the lobbying register well over 20 times to specifically lobby for minimum unit pricing being enacted?

Also lets not forget this little nugget they quietly stopped spouting about as it made them look ridiculous https://www.lobbying.ie/return/29668/vintners-federation-of-ireland

I remember very clearly an interview done on Newstalk back in about 2016/2017 when the president of the VFI was on radio pushing for MUP by claiming it was safer for people to drink in bars than at home because barmen were trained professionals..... the implication being you wouldn't/couldn't get fall down drunk in a pub etc because the barmen wouldn't allow it. I'm in my late 30s and can count on my fingers of one hand how many times ive seen someone refused service in an Irish pub for being too drunk.

Teelings whiskey is produced here and yet is virtually the same price here that it is in France, a wine produced in NZ that I enjoy is more than twice the price here than it is in France so once again your logic doesn't pass the smell test by any stretch.

Especially considering in 2020 France consumed more alcohol per capita than we did, theres no figures for France 2021 yet but we also consumed less alcohol in 2021 than any previous year continuing the 2 decades long decline. This was all prior to MUP being introduced and during 2020 and 2021 while everyone was stuck at home with no pubs to go to so everyone ,going by the pro MUP argument, should have been drowing themselves in so called "cheap booze". The arguments for MUP are completely flawed.

It's not Irish producers that make wine much more expensive here than France. It's primarily tax but MUP also has an effect.

What a completely nonsensical post @BlueSkyDreams

But in many countries I can buy a bottle of Irish whiskey for well under half of the cost of the same bottle here, explain that??

It absolutely is. Have you ever been in a supermarket in Spain or France? off-licence in Germany? Corner shop in Czechia? Or basically anywhere else in Europe apart from Scandinavia? All sell a wide range of domestic and international brands at prices which are way less than here.

2 euro a can for mass market ~4% lagers is very expensive - between two and three times the cost in many EU countries for similar, and around twice the pre-MUP special offer price here (and no evidence has ever been produced that that was a loss leader, either).

The supermarkets, brewers and distributors are all laughing all the way to the bank at our expense. For mass market lagers produced on a very large scale, the brewing costs are extremely low. It's a very profitable industry which, for some bizarre reason, our government has chosen to make even more profitable.