Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

ohnonotgmail

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes, remember this is supposed to reduce alcohol consumption!

so people buy less alcohol because it is more expensive and this is somehow supposed to generate revenue for the government. Does not compute.

odyssey06

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so people buy less alcohol because it is more expensive and this is somehow supposed to generate revenue for the government. Does not compute.

Yes of course it doesn't compute.

It's promoted as a measure to significantly reduce alcohol consumption...
However, given how inelastic alcohol sales are, if alcohol consumption stays at nearly the same levels there will be a lot of extra money going to the retailers (of which the government takes a cut but not the significant part).

ohnonotgmail

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes of course it doesn't compute.

It's promoted as a measure to significantly reduce alcohol consumption...
However, given how inelastic alcohol sales are, if alcohol consumption stays at nearly the same levels there will be a lot of extra money going to the retailers (of which the government takes a cut but not the significant part).

that is true but incomes will also stay the same so the extra amount spent on alcohol will mean a reduction in spending on other vatable items. there is no net vat gain for the government.

elperello

This letter was published in the Irish Times on Wednesday.

The writer is Professor Sean Barrett of Trinity College. He was a Senator when the Bill went through the Oireachtas and was the lone voice against it.

It's a bit long but give it a read. He's not really on our side but when it comes to the economics he knows what he is talking about



Sir, – The minimum price of alcohol proposals by your correspondents (Letters, May 1st) increase the incomes of the alcohol sector by allowing the sector to keep the extra revenues from higher prices. The Oireachtas Library and Research Service estimated in 2015 that this windfall gain was worth over €78.3 million a year to the alcohol sector. We do not return tobacco tax, fossil fuel tax, or other levies on demerit goods to the sectors producing demerit goods.

Recent data in circulation indicate that minimum pricing of alcohol will reduce healthcare costs by €7.4 million in year one. Thus for every €1 claimed health reduction costs from minimum pricing, the alcohol sector gains €10.58.

The Alcohol Sector (Profit Enhancement) Bill is a more accurate title for the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill.

The income distribution aspects of the minimum price proposals also require analysis. Higher-priced alcohol, presumably consumed by those on higher incomes, is not deemed a demerit good under these proposals and will not increase in price.

The attempt to export minimum pricing to Northern Ireland was ill-judged. In order to protect the annual €78.4 million income gain for the alcohol sector from minimum pricing in the Republic from cross-border shopping, the Republic sought to have its policy implemented in the neighbouring jurisdiction.

In next year’s Assembly elections the number of candidates seeking higher prices in Northern Ireland at the behest of the alcohol sector in the Republic is likely to be minimal.

The irony of negotiating a border in the Irish Sea and then complaining about cross-border shopping over the previous land border might also be examined.

The policy of income transfers from consumers to the producers of demerit goods is deeply flawed and regressive.

The Department of Health, its staff and its quangos have had a good innings in promoting the policy. Throughout their campaign they have failed to address why they wish to enhance the incomes of a sector they claim to oppose and to do so at the expense of the public through a regressive transfer. That debate has to take place before their policy is implemented. – Yours, etc,

PTH2009

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

Fond of a few bottlea of Lechs

timmyntc

PTH2009 wrote: »

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

Fond of a few bottlea of Lechs

i think standard 500ml can of beer will be over 2€

KrustyUCC

PTH2009 wrote: »

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

Fond of a few bottlea of Lechs

€1.81 minimum for a Stella under the new pricing so an increase of 20% per can in your example

A Lechs will be €1.97 minimum

KrustyUCC

timmyntc wrote: »

i think standard 500ml can of beer will be over 2€

A 4.3% can will be €1.70

A 4.2% can of stout €1.66

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

Fond of a few bottlea of Lechs

The RRP for a bottle of Tyskie is 1.65. When this comes in, I expect it to go up to 2 euros. Which means a bottle here will be more expensive than a pint of the same beer in a pub in Poland. That is shameful.

KrustyUCC

Yeah true with rounding it will probably got to €2

Another three cents added to the MUP

21.21% increase thanks to our great government

jimmycrackcorm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Revenue won't see one extra cent in excise. Not a single one.


It's a bailout for the publicans by making supermarket drinks more expensive so as to encourage people to drink in pubs instead of at home.

Or rather it would be if distributors don't increase prices. And a reduction in disposable income won't encourage people back into pubs.

Revenue won't see an extra cent in excise and will actually receive less from lower sales. But that's because it's health policy, not revenue maximization.

You suggest it is a bailout for the publicans but correctly state in the next sentence that it won't encourage people back into the pubs.

Even with MUP, cans will still be cheaper than the pub so people will still drink at home; you will be able to drink two cans at home for less than a pint in the pub. But the excess will be curtailed.

odyssey06

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Revenue won't see an extra cent in excise and will actually receive less from lower sales. But that's because it's health policy, not revenue maximization.
You suggest it is a bailout for the publicans but correctly state in the next sentence that it won't encourage people back into the pubs.
Even with MUP, cans will still be cheaper than the pub so people will still drink at home; you will be able to drink two cans at home for less than a pint in the pub. But the excess will be curtailed.

Why do you think publicans are in favour of it?

timmyntc

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Revenue won't see an extra cent in excise and will actually receive less from lower sales. But that's because it's health policy, not revenue maximization.

You suggest it is a bailout for the publicans but correctly state in the next sentence that it won't encourage people back into the pubs.

Even with MUP, cans will still be cheaper than the pub so people will still drink at home; you will be able to drink two cans at home for less than a pint in the pub. But the excess will be curtailed.

in FG's manifesto, MUP was stated as a means to combat cheap off-sales harming the pub trade.

MUP exists to narrow the gap between pub prices and off-license prices. Nothing more.

PTH2009

€2-€2.50 a bottle is acceptable for a few pre/after drinks esp if your heading to the pub permitted there open

We should be back to normal by Jan 2022 surely

dubrov

PTH2009 wrote:

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

Let's hope your wife doesn't give you the news about the price increase

Antares35

PTH2009 wrote: »

€2-€2.50 a bottle is acceptable for a few pre/after drinks esp if your heading to the pub permitted there open

We should be back to normal by Jan 2022 surely

What if you don't want to head to the pub as soon as they're open?

PTH2009

Antares35 wrote: »

What if you don't want to head to the pub as soon as they're open?

True but what TD would stick up for that honest question ?

All this is helping the egos of groups like NPHET and AAI, 90%-95& of people who drink alcohol in this country are harmless as are the health effects but its the bad 5% there targeting

Doctor Jimbob

timmyntc wrote: »

in FG's manifesto, MUP was stated as a means to combat cheap off-sales harming the pub trade.

MUP exists to narrow the gap between pub prices and off-license prices. Nothing more.

It’s remarkable how well the ‘public health’ lie has worked.

FileNotFound

KrustyUCC wrote: »

A 4.3% can will be €1.70

A 4.2% can of stout €1.66

I think the real risk is round up of prices. Could see some bigger increases as shops create new prices under the guise of MUP

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The RRP for a bottle of Tyskie is 1.65. When this comes in, I expect it to go up to 2 euros. Which means a bottle here will be more expensive than a pint of the same beer in a pub in Poland. That is shameful.

Still cheaper than flying to Poland to drink a cheap pint.

Economics101

whisky_galore wrote: »

Still cheaper than flying to Poland to drink a cheap pint.

True, but absolutely beside the point.

PTH2009

Economics101 wrote: »

True, but absolutely beside the point.

Why do the 'Republic Of Ireland' have the higher prices ?

Yeah it's like trying to find an answer to why were in the one of the longest covid lockdowns ?

The Health service is the quick guess

whisky_galore

Economics101 wrote: »

True, but absolutely beside the point.

Food is cheaper, most everything is cheaper than Ireland.
But wages are lower. Deal with it.

A €2 bottle is hardly going to break anyone. Don't like it? Move to Poland then.

It's hilarious people here will buy €6 takeaway pints without complaint but get fierce stingy when it comes to a six pack of bargain basement gut rot.

odyssey06

whisky_galore wrote: »

Food is cheaper, most everything is cheaper than Ireland.
But wages are lower. Deal with it.

A €2 bottle is hardly going to break anyone. Don't like it? Move to Poland then.

It's hilarious people here will buy €6 takeaway pints without complaint but get fierce stingy when it comes to a six pack of bargain basement gut rot.

Drink is cheaper in Germany and France too.

Most of LIDL's wine and beer for example will be impacted by this measure.
And anyone who says they are gut rot doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Or if you are going to claim they are gut rot versus the branded offering, how about backing up some of these big claims you are making?

Don't like people complaining about government decisions, deal with it. Or move to North Korea maybe? Is that the kind of language you understand?

FileNotFound

whisky_galore wrote: »

Food is cheaper, most everything is cheaper than Ireland.
But wages are lower. Deal with it.

A €2 bottle is hardly going to break anyone. Don't like it? Move to Poland then.

It's hilarious people here will buy €6 takeaway pints without complaint but get fierce stingy when it comes to a six pack of bargain basement gut rot.

It seems the issues people have with this have gone right over your head.

It's not just a price thing, it's the lack of true justification for the decision, the fact it's been heavily driven by vintners under the guise of health.

It's the lie being used to sell this pig and a stallion.

The price of our drinks in the supermarket have been heavily changed by vintners and a few loonies in a Gov funded charity that is a lobby group. No politician defended on behalf of their electorate.

Plus its valid to argue that the current daft prices prove price increasing doesn't really work.

I ciuld have swallowed a tax hike easily enough, even a big one. But this nonsense of all the extra money going to shops and suppliers is farcical.

KrustyUCC

FileNotFound wrote: »

I think the real risk is round up of prices. Could see some bigger increases as shops create new prices under the guise of MUP

You might be right but the majority of the extra is going to the shops anyway so they might not get too greedy

ohnonotgmail

KrustyUCC wrote: »

You might be right but the majority of the extra is going to the shops anyway so they might not get too greedy

LOL

Doctor Jimbob

whisky_galore wrote: »

Food is cheaper, most everything is cheaper than Ireland.
But wages are lower. Deal with it.

A €2 bottle is hardly going to break anyone. Don't like it? Move to Poland then.

It's hilarious people here will buy €6 takeaway pints without complaint but get fierce stingy when it comes to a six pack of bargain basement gut rot.

You come so close to getting the point yet miss it spectacularly. Yes, a lot of people here have no issue with paying €6 for a takeaway pint. Does that not make it clear that it’s not the cost that’s pissing people off? We have our health minister misleading us about alcohol being cheaper than water. We have the whole government telling us this is a health measure, despite the origin being there for all to see in FG’s 2011 manifesto as a measure to protect local pubs.

Capt'n Midnight

PTH2009 wrote: »

Picked up a few cans of Stella (owl wife beater) for €1.50 each and with the new pricing will items like that stay the same ?

That is already twice the price per can in a 12 pack of Aldi's finest.

Which shows how little of the price of a can of Stella is due to the Excise duty.

And how much pure profit will be made by MUP by the supermarkets.

Capt'n Midnight

KrustyUCC wrote: »

You might be right but the majority of the extra is going to the shops anyway so they might not get too greedy

The supermarkets will clean up on own brands that don't go through local distributors.

And why would they sell brand name cans at the old price when they can double the price of their cheapest own brands and keep the difference ?


Like I keep posting I expect the distributors to soak up as much of the MUP as they can get away with.