Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

magicbastarder · 01-02-2023 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189429#Comment_120189429

lit cyclist, not unlit.

AndrewJRenko · 01-02-2023 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189446#Comment_120189446

Apologies, typo corrected.

micar · 01-02-2023 10:35pm

Report it due to their really poor attitude.

Tenzor07 · 01-02-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189440#Comment_120189440

A very odd turn for a car to make at that point in the road, no way for you to anticipate this as you'd already passed the turn onto the Kilmore road, driver is 100% at fault here, hope you gave them hell for that careless driving, you can pass it onto the Gards at Coolock, chances are however that they will do nothing....

Tenzor07 · 01-02-2023 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189583#Comment_120189583

Going into the Goblet for a few pints i'd say!

The driver probably had very poor eyesight and got their licence in "the amnesty" too i'd say...

DaveyDave · 01-02-2023 10:59pm

I'd absolutely report it for the attitude alone.

magicbastarder · 01-02-2023 11:22pm

yes, would say the same; if the motorist had put their hands up and apologised, that's one thing. blaming the cyclist after having hit them suggests the best way they could learn a lesson, would be a visit from a guard.

AndrewJRenko · 02-02-2023 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189777#Comment_120189777

A visit from a guard who will show them the video, hopefully.

CramCycle · 02-02-2023 9:19am

100% report, there is no confusion, no discussion here.

TheHouseIRL · 04-02-2023 8:05pm

Another ignorant pass and pull in. At least this guy had the decency to hold his hands up and apologise for his cretinous behaviour.

https://streamable.com/h5aigp

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 8:48pm

what were you doing continuing up his inside after he'd clearly started to turn in?

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202870#Comment_120202870

What? He was in the cycle lane

It looked like the driver was fully aware that the cyclist was there as it seemed they'd stopped to allow the cyclist to proceed on before turning and then at the last minute proceeded as if they hadn't, which makes sense given they apologised.

There was no way the driver had right of way to proceed with that turn there.

Weepsie · 04-02-2023 9:07pm

It's poor cycling for me, poor road craft at best.

Assume nothing when a car a bit ahead is clearly indicating.

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 9:13pm

What? He was in the cycle lane

so? i'm not saying the driver is in the right. he proceeded up the inside of an indicating car which had also started to turn. and got as far as you'd expect either way.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202930#Comment_120202930

Again, the cyclist wasn't on the road!

We're back to the argument that he should have yielded when he shouldn't have to. The driver should have yielded as they didn't have the time to complete the turn without infringing on the cyclist's right of progress.

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 9:24pm

it's not about right of way; it's about proceeding straight into a clear hazard.

lest it need to be said, the driver was in the wrong.

but proceeding up the inside of a left turning car, even when the driver is in the wrong, is wrong.

your first duty on the road (motorist or cyclist) is to avoid hazards, or creating hazards. the motorist was guilty of the latter, the cyclist of the former.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202954#Comment_120202954

So you're not saying the driver was in the right but happy to say the cyclist was in the wrong?

For proceeding along a cycle lane has they had every right to do?

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202985#Comment_120202985

Classic victim blaming there.

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203011#Comment_120203011

for the avoidance of doubt.

the motorist was wrong.

the cyclist was wrong.

call it victim blaming if you wish.

Weepsie · 04-02-2023 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202992#Comment_120202992

The rules of the road are not the laws. You're not supposed to overtake a left turning vehicleth

The law is:

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it

04-02-2023 9:55pm

Nutgrove Avenue if I recall? Doesn't looked to have changed in the 15 years since I've rode there. I'd not have been in the bike lane there myself as it suddenly dumps you back on the road a touch further up at the small apartments. Then when it starts back up again you'll usually have a car or 3 parked on it.

Weepsie · 04-02-2023 9:55pm

Then theelres the whole how is the lane demarcated too. Like it's bad driving but it's terrible situational awareness for all parties.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203062#Comment_120203062

I will.

The cyclist was not in the wrong here, attaching any blame to them is akin to blaming a girl for wearing a short skirt on a night out.

Weepsie · 04-02-2023 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203133#Comment_120203133

No it's not. You're way off on that comparison.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203106#Comment_120203106

How it's demarcated? It's as clear as day that it's a cycle lane!

This shouldn't even be up for discussion

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 10:09pm

say you're driving on the M50, and a car passes you but immediately swerves across in front of you; do you

A) hit the brakes to avoid a collision

B) plough on ahead because, hey, it's your right of way, and they shouldn't have done that?

you do A. you do A every single time because your duty to avoid a collision trumps all else. and you're not an idiot.

this does not alter the fact that the other driver created this situation; but continuiing straight on into an unfolding hazard is wrong.

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 10:12pm

or a more absurd example (i'm going absurdist as i can't believe this is up for discussion).

say someone has lit a bonfire in the cycle lane in front of you, clearly an outrageously illegal act. do you continue to cycle straight ahead, because it's your right of way and they shouldn't have done that?

Weepsie · 04-02-2023 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203157#Comment_120203157

Yes it's a cycle lane, but there are also different ways of marking out cycle lanes for very specific reasons in terms of when and how traffic can enter/cross. Either way the car was well within their right to start the turn when they got to it. They showed poor judgement in waiting. The cyclist showed poor judgement in proceeding.

Crap from both.

You're comparison is actually rather outrageous.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203162#Comment_120203162

There was no collision! The cyclist didn't plough on ahead!

Honestly i have no idea why both of you are persisting in blaming the cyclist here, they were fully aware of the sh1t driving that was about to unfold.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203188#Comment_120203188

My comparison is right on the money imo, you're both victim blaming. Cyclist should have been more aware, was it actually a cycle lane, cyclist was creating a hazard by being in the cycle lane.

This is the cycling forum isn't it? Seems to me that someone who isn't a regular poster gets treated differently to anyone in the clique.

CramCycle · 04-02-2023 11:15pm

I am so confused here (as I can't hear the video), legally the motorist is 100% in the wrong, morally the motorist is 100% in the wrong. On an unrelated note, not victim blaming, unrelated to the law, if a car overtakes me indicating, I am prepared for it to turn in. I have no sound so don't know what's happening but would I have done the same as the poster? yes I would but only because I'd be prepped to drop anchor, and I am a selfish enough bollicks that on occasion I'd rather be right than unhurt. Anyone who says that you couldn't see it coming is a liar or new to cycling in Dublin. I'd have let a roar, as soon as the wheel turned or the car slowed, that would have raised the dead. Should I have stopped, well, if giving advice to anyone else, I'd say they were a fool to continue expecting a good outcome. This said, I suspect the poster was like me, without sound, it appears they stop pedalling and they break in time. No harm to give the driver a bit of a scare so they don't act the **** in future. Doesn't mean myself or the poster are right.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203385#Comment_120203385

Well said, poster was clearly aware of what was unfolding and reacted, then gave the driver a bollicking, i'd have done the same myself.

magicbastarder · 04-02-2023 11:31pm

cram, you're out of the clique.

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203441#Comment_120203441

ROFL :-)

DaveyDave · 05-02-2023 11:46am

This might be a surprise to some people based on some of the posts I'm seeing but as a road user you have a responsibility to react to hazards and there was clear intentions the motorist was turning left. It doesn't change the fact the motorist was wrong but continuing to proceed and making little to no effort to brake/stop when you have plenty of time to do so would also put you at fault if you were to collide.

Right of way doesn't make you immune from being responsible and cycling safely at all times regardless of who's in the wrong around you.

TheHouseIRL · 05-02-2023 3:27pm

Based on my interpretation of the driver's behaviour at the time, as well as taking into account that they had passed me seconds earlier, I had made the decision to continue. That interpretation was primarily informed by the position that the driver stopped in prior to initiating the turn (he had stopped short of the position that drivers typically stop at to enter that car wash). He was, for whatever reason, taking a much more diagonal path than drivers typically do.

Once I observed the passenger side front wheel begin to turn, I hit the brakes, but not so hard that I would risk locking up and going over the bars. To say I made little to no effort to stop is plain wrong.

TheChizler · 05-02-2023 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120204965#Comment_120204965

There is a law about a cyclist not overtaking on the left if the driver in that position is indicating left, it's a bit s##t especially considering the driver's behaviour (also illegal and dangerous) but the law is clear. This pretty much happened to me a couple of years ago (except I was injured) and I posted the video out of interest and it was pretty much the same consensus which I agreed with (provided the driver indicated, it wasn't clear in the video and I didn't see it if they did).

TheChizler · 06-02-2023 1:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206869#Comment_120206869

How else would you overtake someone?

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 10:29am

i'll go back to my comment about the M50. You wouldn't do that in a car.

micar · 06-02-2023 11:54am

The only person overtaking here is the motorist who clearly doesn't understand risky manoeuvre like this poses on cyclists.

All motorists need to do is hold back. They simply just don't this and nor will they ever get this.

We all know it's all about getting in front and not allowing anyone delay them for even a fraction of second.

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 1:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206664#Comment_120206664

That's not the full law, it's if the driver is indicating left and will move to the left, ie. Closer to the kerb before the cyclist can overtake.

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

It's irrelevant here anyway as the op was on the cycle lane, not on the road, so the law doesn't apply. As op explained correctly, the car stopped on the road at first, giving the impression they were waiting for the cyclist to proceed, then at the last minute lurched into their path.

To imply that the cyclist should be the one apologizing here is ridiculous.

Whatever about having your wits about you on the bike which we all do, if we all held back in all of these scenarios, a. It would be a pain in the arse, and b. None of these sh1t drivers would ever learn.

The op did zero wrong here imo.

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 1:37pm

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

that's explicitly what i'm not saying. my point is explicitly based around the fact that the indicating motorist does not have priority to pull into your lane; but that you'd still be in the wrong to plough on regardless.

you say 'without giving you time to react'. in the video posted, the indicator comes on at 5s into the video and the cyclist pulls alongside the car at 12s in. so the cyclist did have time to react.

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 1:40pm

the funny thing is that if TheHouseIRL had given some context to the video - as in 'here is what i saw and here is why i did what i did' (in the way Cram described what he'd have probably done), this debate wouldn't have started.

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207848#Comment_120207848

The car was stopped on the road though, and didn't move again until the cyclist was on top of them, and still avoided the collision.

Imo the driver was looking for the premises so never noticed the cyclist at all, stopped to check it was the right place, giving the cyclist the impression they were letting them through, then went to pull in.

Hindsight is great but I would have behaved the same as the cyclist all things considered, but still be prepared, as the op was, that the moron driving might have done what they did.

Pawwed Rig · 06-02-2023 3:58pm

I read all the comments before I watched the video and assumed that the cyclist had been taken out. They saw the car and stopped in time without getting hit.

Poor driving by the car but the guy on the bike avoided being taken out so did the right thing to protect themselves. Car driver acknowledged fault. Am I missing something?

Weepsie · 06-02-2023 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207786#Comment_120207786

I don't think the law contain the nuances for 2 separate lanes in terms of overtaking, but does allow for vehicular traffic having to cross off cycle lanes. Maybe it does, but when I read it it didn't seem to define that it was restricted to the one lane.

Weepsie · 06-02-2023 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208087#Comment_120208087

The car was never once actually stopped. It slows down yes , but it's clearly begun to turn after it has safely passed.

You might be right about the driver just looking for the premises and they also might have realised the tool the turn badly .

When I'm in that situation, I'm normally hopping out of the cycle lane and overtaking on the right.

Its poor driving, but for me nothing changes the fact that its poor reading of the situation on both parties behalf and that's where I'm drawing the line.

I'll be accused of clique bait next

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209235#Comment_120209235

At least we're all agreed on the poor driving aspect, which wasn't your tone in your first replies.

Having watched it several times, the car definitely stops, and even the slowing while still on the road would give the impression to anyone that they're waiting for the cyclist to pass. Hand on heart i doubt any cyclist would have read the situation any differently, if you feel you would have then you're a genius.

John_Rambo · 06-02-2023 11:20pm

As a cyclist...

would you stop safely & let the drive bully his way through & continue to do so in the future.
would you continue cautiously and make safe but obvious contact & make a point of the drivers actions (which I suspect happened)
would you continue full pelt and go over the bonnet and have a concussion with a night in hospital.

I think the driver was 100% in the wrong and I think the cyclist took the second bullet point. Hopefully the driver has learnt a lesson.

Back to the thread in general, 99.9% of the recordings show a shocking lack of driving basics from motorists and a blatant disregard for cyclists. They should be used in Garda stations, driving schools and particularly they should be shown to private bus company drivers by an authority as a "what not to do" manual for those drivers going for a licence and those drivers that have had a license for years. I think a mod from the motorist forum should sticky the thread on the motoring forum too. (although that could attract the nut jobs & turn the thread in to a moderation nightmare)

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 11:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

I think that's a great suggestion tbh

Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

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