Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

magicbastarder

you and i have a different definition of the word 'reckless', when we're talking about a driver who starts an overtaking manouevre they've clearly got no idea if they'll be able to complete safely.

lawrencesummers

magicbastarder wrote: »

you and i have a different definition of the word 'reckless', when we're talking about a driver who starts an overtaking manouevre they've clearly got no idea if they'll be able to complete safely.

There are different levels of reckless, it’s a subjective word.
I wouldn’t put this at the higher level.
I wouldn’t do it, but it’s far from the worst.

magicbastarder

well, a quick google says 'heedless of danger or the consequences of one's actions; rash or impetuous.'
by that definition, the driver shown was reckless, no doubt about it.

lawrencesummers

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, a quick google says 'heedless of danger or the consequences of one's actions; rash or impetuous.'
by that definition, the driver shown was reckless, no doubt about it.

Language doesn’t live in a dictionary.

Duckjob

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I would be happy if that was the worst display of driving to be seen.
To my mind the biggest problem there is the infrastructure, no segregated bike lane and It should be a one way street Because it’s so narrow.

The Audi attempt to overtake is so slow that oncoming traffic while being pretty inevitable is Never in danger, they are aware of the bike when they slow and stop to allow enough room for the cyclist to continue.

It’s not that bad to be fair, they probably should have waited but it’s not reckless.

At absolute best, it's a classic example of what I said just on this thread 3 pages ago:

Driver's ability to read the road ahead in any shape or fashion is gone to absolute cr*p....

Also, it appears the driver slowed down quickly about 1 sec in, and then thought "ah screw it i can still get through" and pushed on more to the point where
they conceded they couldnt get away with pushing through, at which point their car was dangerously close to an unprotected kid on a bike.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I would be happy if that was the worst display of driving to be seen.
....

It’s not that bad to be fair, they probably should have waited but it’s not reckless.

That's a pretty low bar of expectation you're setting on driving standards TBF.

magicbastarder

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Language doesn’t live in a dictionary.

well, then you can use any definition you want for reckless. the rest of us might not know what you mean, though.

lawrencesummers

Duckjob wrote: »

At absolute best, it's a classic example of what I said just on this thread 3 pages ago:



Also, it appears the driver slowed down quickly about 1 sec in, and then thought "ah screw it i can still get through" and pushed on more to the point where
they conceded they couldnt get away with pushing through, at which point their car was dangerously close to an unprotected kid on a bike.




That's a pretty low bar of expectation you're setting on driving standards TBF.

The cyclists had plenty of room to get through once the car stopped.
I never said it was right, I said it’s not the worst thing you see and the drivers decisions are wrong, but the infrastructure is a major part of the problem.

lawrencesummers

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, then you can use any definition you want for reckless. the rest of us might not know what you mean, though.

I didn’t define reckless you did, I’ve had enough close calls on my bike to know that this is far far from the worst that you see, and as I said if it was the worst that happened me it wouldn’t be a bad day.

Eamonnator

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The cyclists had plenty of room to get through once the car stopped.
I never said it was right, I said it’s not the worst thing you see and the drivers decisions are wrong, but the infrastructure is a major part of the problem.

The major part of the problem was the manner in which the driver dealt with the bad infrastructure.

Duckjob

Eamonnator wrote: »

The major part of the problem was the manner in which the driver dealt with the bad infrastructure.

Reminds me of a road local to me that features in my local WhatsApp group quite a bit due to accidents at one particular spot on it. These messages always refer to the "bad bend", as if that's the main source of the problem.

I don't see anything tricky about it - it's just a bend. It's been there for probably over 60 years and to my knowledge in that time it has never moved or shifted around.

What I do see quite frequently is people coming around it far too fast with their wheels well over the middle line because they couldnt be bothered to adjust their speed down to a speed appropriate for the conditions and take the correct line through the bend.

It's astounding the lengths people can go to deflect blame away from their sloppy driving.

lawrencesummers

Duckjob wrote: »

Reminds me of a road local to me that features in my local WhatsApp group quite a bit due to accidents at one particular spot on it. These messages always refer to the "bad bend", as if that's the main source of the problem.

I don't see anything tricky about it - it's just a bend. It's been there for probably over 60 years and to my knowledge in that time it has never moved or shifted around.

What I do see quite frequently is people coming around it far too fast with their wheels well over the middle line because they couldnt be bothered to adjust their speed down to a speed appropriate for the conditions and take the correct line through the bend.

It's astounding the lengths people can go to deflect blame away from their sloppy driving.

Do you navigate this particular bend at the speed limit which applies to that road?

Seth Brundle

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you navigate this particular bend at the speed limit which applies to that road?

I'm wondering where you're going with this. Many bends cannot be taken at the prevailing speed limit even if there were no pedestrians, cyclists, traffic, etc.
Doesn't mean that you should drive around a bend under the speed limit yet still too fast.

lawrencesummers

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm wondering where you're going with this. Many bends cannot be taken at the prevailing speed limit even if there were no pedestrians, cyclists, traffic, etc.
Doesn't mean that you should drive around a bend under the speed limit yet still too fast.

If a particular bend is the site of multiple accidents it pretty obvious that it’s a contributory factor to the accidents.

That concept seems to be lost on a lot of people, which is pretty surprising in a forum about cycling which constantly advocates for better Infrastructure.

The placement of gatso vans has been based on this concept since their introduction. Particular areas need to be controlled and patrolled for safety reasons. Roads may appear to drivers to be safe to increase speed but as a source of accidents it clearly not.

If someone is driving a road they don’t know they follow the speed limit, if a section of that road isn’t suitable and safe for the prevailing speed limit it either needs an engineered solution (widening, straightening) or an administrative one - signage, road marking, reduced limit with adequate warning. The fact that the OP knows this bad bend is fine for him, put a potential source of danger for people unfamiliar with it.

There is a road near me where you go around 7 bends all the while the white line in the middle is a broken not solid line. That gives drivers unfamiliar with the road a question that overtaking is possible, when it should be a solid white line.

Roads aren’t perfect, far from it but we don’t demand enough of the people tasked with improving them.

CramCycle

Dear lord, follow the speed limit ?!? regardless of the conditions the limit is just that, a limit, not a target. Drive to the conditions. It's this kind of attitude that is one of the main factors in most road traffic accidents.

Eamonnator

I DO WISH, THAT PEOPLE WOULD STOP REFERRING TO COLLISIONS AS ACCIDENTS.

Duckjob

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If a particular bend is the site of multiple accidents it pretty obvious that it’s a contributory factor to the accidents.

That concept seems to be lost on a lot of people, which is pretty surprising in a forum about cycling which constantly advocates for better Infrastructure.

The placement of gatso vans has been based on this concept since their introduction. Particular areas need to be controlled and patrolled for safety reasons. Roads may appear to drivers to be safe to increase speed but as a source of accidents it clearly not.

If someone is driving a road they don’t know they follow the speed limit, if a section of that road isn’t suitable and safe for the prevailing speed limit it either needs an engineered solution (widening, straightening) or an administrative one - signage, road marking, reduced limit with adequate warning. The fact that the OP knows this bad bend is fine for him, put a potential source of danger for people unfamiliar with it.

There is a road near me where you go around 7 bends all the while the white line in the middle is a broken not solid line. That gives drivers unfamiliar with the road a question that overtaking is possible, when it should be a solid white line.

Roads aren’t perfect, far from it but we don’t demand enough of the people tasked with improving them.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on your point of inadequate infrastructure. The road I'm talking about, like so many here in Ireland, was I'm sure perfectly adequate for Ireland 1950s, but is totally unfit for purpose in Ireland 2020, not least because it has no safe facilities for anyone not in a car.

On the other hand, holding county councils to higher standards and holding our road users to higher standards are not mutually exclusive.

AndrewJRenko

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I would be happy if that was the worst display of driving to be seen.
To my mind the biggest problem there is the infrastructure, no segregated bike lane and It should be a one way street Because it’s so narrow.

The Audi attempt to overtake is so slow that oncoming traffic while being pretty inevitable is Never in danger, they are aware of the bike when they slow and stop to allow enough room for the cyclist to continue.

It’s not that bad to be fair, they probably should have waited but it’s not reckless.

Are you seriously suggesting that we need to make roads like this one way because dickheads like this won't make sure they have time and space to overtake safely?


Here's an alternative suggestion - let's start taking and crushing cars from idiots who drive like this, and see how long it takes for the masses to get the message.

AndrewJRenko

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If a particular bend is the site of multiple accidents it pretty obvious that it’s a contributory factor to the accidents.

That concept seems to be lost on a lot of people, which is pretty surprising in a forum about cycling which constantly advocates for better Infrastructure.

The placement of gatso vans has been based on this concept since their introduction. Particular areas need to be controlled and patrolled for safety reasons. Roads may appear to drivers to be safe to increase speed but as a source of accidents it clearly not.

If someone is driving a road they don’t know they follow the speed limit, if a section of that road isn’t suitable and safe for the prevailing speed limit it either needs an engineered solution (widening, straightening) or an administrative one - signage, road marking, reduced limit with adequate warning. The fact that the OP knows this bad bend is fine for him, put a potential source of danger for people unfamiliar with it.

There is a road near me where you go around 7 bends all the while the white line in the middle is a broken not solid line. That gives drivers unfamiliar with the road a question that overtaking is possible, when it should be a solid white line.

Roads aren’t perfect, far from it but we don’t demand enough of the people tasked with improving them.

Or maybe drivers should notice the upcoming bends and adjust their speed accordingly?

I really can't wait for autonomous vehicles - buggy software would be much better than the average driver in Ireland.

lawrencesummers

CramCycle wrote: »

Dear lord, follow the speed limit ?!? regardless of the conditions the limit is just that, a limit, not a target. Drive to the conditions. It's this kind of attitude that is one of the main factors in most road traffic accidents.

So poor road design doesn’t happen? The roads are perfect are they? It’s the drivers that are the problem?

lawrencesummers

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that we need to make roads like this one way because dickheads like this won't make sure they have time and space to overtake safely?


Here's an alternative suggestion - let's start taking and crushing cars from idiots who drive like this, and see how long it takes for the masses to get the message.

Yes strangely I’m suggesting the roads are designed or redesigned in such a way that allows for the maximum safety of the users on them. Bikes in segregated lanes, two car lanes.

Did you notice that road doesn’t have a central line on it? And the lumpy surface on it. Is that to much to ask in this day and age That our roads actually have painted markings on them?

lawrencesummers

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or maybe drivers should notice the upcoming bends and adjust their speed accordingly?

I really can't wait for autonomous vehicles - buggy software would be much better than the average driver in Ireland.

Notice an upcoming badly designed dangerous bend where obeying the speed limit on that road is to fast.

Like be psychic?
Great idea.
Hard to see it catching on.


And you won’t ever see me in a autonomous vehicle, nor will there be widespread introduction of them under the current insurance regimes that exists.

AndrewJRenko

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Notice an upcoming badly designed dangerous bend where obeying the speed limit on that road is to fast.

Like be psychic?
Great idea.
Hard to see it catching on.


And you won’t ever see me in a autonomous vehicle, nor will there be widespread introduction of them under the current insurance regimes that exists.

Not so much psychic as putting their phones down and keeping their eyes and their minds on the road ahead. Try it sometime.

BTW, roads designed to facilitate speeding are the absolute opposite of safety.

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

I DO WISH, THAT PEOPLE WOULD STOP REFERRING TO COLLISIONS AS ACCIDENTS.

Apologies

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So poor road design doesn’t happen? The roads are perfect are they? It’s the drivers that are the problem?

Happens all the time, do you know what would solve the issues with alot of bad road design, better drivers. In fact alot of what you are suggesting is bad road design as it encourages drivers to go faster. What we need is a system where drivers are taught from day one that speed limits are not targets (which most driving instructors do the opposite). If you are not smart enough to realise that doing 80 round a blind bend is not a good idea and do it because it is the "limit" then you really should be DQ'd from driving. Regrettably we are too protective if drivers in this country, therefore its not the infrastructures fault but society in general.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yes strangely I’m suggesting the roads are designed or redesigned in such a way that allows for the maximum safety of the users on them. Bikes in segregated lanes, two car lanes

Forgetting the cost, space and everything else that makes this a non runner, why not just make everyone behave safely through education and enforcement.

Did you notice that road doesn’t have a central line on it? And the lumpy surface on it. Is that to much to ask in this day and age That our roads actually have painted markings on them?

There is actually a reason for that, the road isn't wide enough for painted markings in many cases under the regulations.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Notice an upcoming badly designed dangerous bend where obeying the speed limit on that road is to fast.

Like be psychic?
Great idea.
Hard to see it catching on.

Are you saying if you can't see around a corner and you have never driven on the road before (and yes I am aware that having driven on the road shouldn't be a consideration but I fear I may lose who this is aimed at), that you keep tipping away at the speed limit. This is what you think the most reasonable course of action is?!? It's stupid, it is illegal and is god damn f*cking dangerous.

Effects

Eamonnator wrote: »

I DO WISH, THAT PEOPLE WOULD STOP REFERRING TO COLLISIONS AS ACCIDENTS.

ofthelord

Hope it's ok to post this here, thought about this thread when out on a cycle today.
Had a near miss earlier - no other vehicles involved. A couple of Deer scared the crap out of me by sprinting out from the trees and running out across the fireroad when I was going downhill @+35kmph, this was on Carrick. Had a lovely relaxing few hours cycling mainly offload other than that bit of excitement!

magicbastarder

ofthelord wrote: »

Hope it's ok to post this here

that's what the thread is for!
i was once nearly cleaned out of it by a stag in the dark on the khyber road in the phoenix park. would have startled me but for the fact that by the time i realised what had happened, it was already well clear of me.

sy_flembeck

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's what the thread is for!
i was once nearly cleaned out of it by a stag in the dark on the khyber road in the phoenix park. would have startled me but for the fact that by the time i realised what had happened, it was already well clear of me.

I posted footage of the same on Near Misses 1. Happened near Newtownmountkennedy. I didn't post footage the second time as, for me, it was old hat at that stage




ps It does frighten the cr*p out of you

tnegun

Got out for a spin at lunch today and had 3 interesting interactions the first and last were within 100m from home so wont post, but one lady drove at me on the wrong side of the road on her phone while looking for a neighbour she seemed to think I was in the wrong for pointing at the correct side of the road and then at almost the same spot on the way back a tradesman walked out on the road without looking I let him know I was there and his response was to slow down!!

I must be wearing my invisibility suit today as for this muppet beeps at me to make way for him I guess? Then proceeds to pass too close while entering a blind bend?? https://streamable.com/oswpo1 and gives a puddle plenty of room!

Seth Brundle

tnegun wrote: »

I must be wearing my invisibility suit today as for this muppet beeps at me to make way for him I guess? Then proceeds to pass too close while entering a blind bend?? https://streamable.com/oswpo1 and gives a puddle plenty of room!

Am I hearing things or did they tap their horn around 0:16?

Eamonnator

Effects wrote: »

That is just too close to home for comfort.