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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭Astartes


    Flip the script. If that was a white male and black woman... Could you imagine the meltdown?


    I always laughed/wondered at stories from the Soviet Union at how much of an upside down mindf*ck the whole thing was. How could it get like that? Now its happening here. Up is down, left is right and 2+2=5, because people are terrified to speak out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    Guy with same name has a lot of previous physical assaults going back to 2013



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Has he been diagnosed with schizophrenia? Did he come here when he was 12 with his family? Just going off the reports.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    80 previous convictions, if he's not a citizen (and he might well be) then he should be deported.

    I don't really care what age he came here at. His family can decide if they follow him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s not a case of ‘fitting in’. It’s a case that they all needed feck all when they get here. Not looking for a house or apartment from us, free public transport, healthcare, … all the Poles, Brazilians, French, Italians I’ve known came here not for help, protection or to be given anything… I’ve worked with loads.

    oour choice ? That’s hilarious 😂…. We’ve had as citizens ZERO choice… since day one. Politicians made it clear that no way would we have a say, or even be listened to… ‘deal with it’…has been the mantra.

    In 8/9 months since people began arriving anything even approaching questioning, disagreeing, suggesting alternatives has been met with….dismissive, arrogant petulance from the government, NGO’s and the supporters and enablers of this horror show… not to mention..lies…

    so completely undemocratic in other words. All very well us self righteous people and politicians mocking less just, free, fair and transparent regimes elsewhere, on other continents…. But really we are not being listened to, we have zero say. Our government and politicians are acting in bad faith, broadly ignoring the opinions, concerns, requirements and wellbeing of Irish taxpayers. This is starting to look like a dictatorship in terms of policy and decision making.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I mean "our choice" in the sense of our political leaders. Oh it's cerainly not our choice as citizens, or our choice is pretty much unmeasured on this subject. The only choice we did get because it was a constitutional thing was on the jus soli vote in 04 and we made our feelings clear there and it was "nope".

    The singular problem is our Hobson's choice of candidates and parties. All of the parties that anyone halfway sensible would tick a box beside sing from the same "multicultural" hymn sheet. FFG obviously do, the busted flush that is Lab would be worse, or just as bad as the utterly useless, some might say stupidly dangerous Greens. And if anyone thinks SF are any sort of choice on this particular matter I've magic beans to sell you. If anything they'll be worse. The only ones that don't sing from this hymn sheet are tiny catholic Ireland, Irexit, actual right wingers who would struggle to fill a hotel lounge with their voters. Y'know, morons. There isn't an example of a party that would be sensible centrists on most talking points and who are sensible centrists on immigration. That's our problem in Ireland. In essence we've ended up with a one party system, the names just change. Plus in Irish politics it's the case that when the trough is wide enough and it is, the piglets won't fight over it.

    I've voted in every election, local and national, and every referendum since I proudly got my first voter card. Well I did up until the last general election. Because of all of what I wrote above I just didn't bother tbh. In the future unless I see genuine measured alternatives, independents or otherwise I'll only vote in referenda. And I hate having to type that.

    But again this has bugger all to do with the EU as you were saying earlier and that was the point I was making. As for your examples listed, save for the Brazillians(too many of whom are also illegals) the rest are fellow EU members so are a very different bunch, one we did vote for to allow intra-EU free movement. One I voted for myself. They're all legal. Fitting in is a biggie and the elephant in the room of this multiculturalist politic. In every single case of European(and beyond) multicultural societies, the people who look or appear to act, or act least like the locals face the most problems and societies feel the most problems from them. Basic human nature. Like I said before the facts are the vast majority of inward migration into Ireland over the last 30 years have been European or of European extraction. The Poles alone dwarf the number of Africans, yet are essentially invisible to the left, the right, the media, the government and NGO's. Ireland has a Black history month for feck's sake, yet the Poles don't get a wet Tuesday in November. We have far more historical connections to nations like Spain and France, even Italy yet they get nada too. If you want to figure out the squeaky wheel, ask where the oil goes.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    One of the arguments often put forward by those in favour of this politic is that if we integrate the new arrivals better into our communities then it will work out differently than it has in every other country.

    Well that's the rub and a major problem for the pro muliticulturalists. Ask them to point out an example of all those muliticultural nations out there with all their different histories, cultures and politics where the exact same social, political and ethnic patterns don't emerge, consolidate and persist over time and the generations. They can't answer, because there quite simply isn't one, which is puzzling for such a boon and strength this politic is claimed to be.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Well the people who don't want to integrate and get along with the migrants, don't want to integrate and get along with the migrants. Almost everyone who is anti migrant in this thread won't want to get along with them of course. Most people will and government policy should really encourage those types that won't do it, to change. Although generally the difference will be seen in the future generations and the old todgers of today will die off with their beliefs thankfully. If that wasn't the case you'd still have things like slavery and apartheid being legalised and so on. The old todgers slowly died off and the new gen were complicit in making the changes while the old todgers were still making the same old tired arguments as we see from your post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I don't see how you can have multi cultures at the same time everyone is 'integrated'.

    You can only preserve the cultures by preserving non-integration.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yeah that would be all grand if we didn't have numerous examples of nations running this multicultural experiment over many decades and several generations with the same results over time. These "old todgers" you seem positively obsessed with appear to be remarkably long lived. Oh and i hate to burst your bubble, but of those who drove the changes against slavery and apartheid a large percentage were "old todgers". Read some history.

    But again you avoid the question, because the answer doesn't agree with your faith in this political/social experiment. Again I ask you; point out an example of all those muliticultural nations out there with all their different histories, cultures and politics where the exact same social, political and ethnic patterns don't emerge. Again Part 3; you can't.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    When you see stuff like this of absolute scum behaviour - sexually threatening ppl just going about their daily job, is it any wonder ppl are protesting against open border access for unvetted men??



  • Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Kyokushin Grappler


    And it's only going to get worse the longer this is allowed to go on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    You need to go into way more detail about the metrics you are using to come to those conclusions since you're the one making whatever argument you're making. I've seen you writing essays so it shouldn't be a problem. Back everything up with stats. Although it is difficult to deal with your posts because you tend to ramble a bit. The pro slavery/apartheid scumbags were making similar arguments.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No they weren't. Economics strongly came into it and who else will do the work arguments(no real coincidence that abolition and steam power came around the same time), but their overall excuse was it was "the natural order of things", even Aristotle struggling to explain away slavery as a state came to a similar conclusion. Again I respectfully suggest you read more books on the matter.

    But again I ask you to name one "multicultural" nation where people of colour are not more likely to be over-represented in stats on poverty, lack of education and crime.

    And indeed more likely to be framed in negative stereotypes with it. Well unless they're successful in biz, sport or the arts, where they're pointed to and painted as "success stories of diversity". Easier for the "natives" to ignore the wider realities, especially the so called "liberal" ones. Malcolm X had their number back in the 60's. Racism and "The Other" factor is of course a massive part of this, however rather than pull the usual "we need more education/resources/dialogue" stuff as a panacea(though we have to now in hope of papering the cracks as the horse has long bolted) I prefer if reluctantly to face facts, as many POC do, if you actually asked them, that multicultural societies don't work nearly so well as the flag bearers of this politic claim or like to think. Least of all for the very groups we claim they do work for.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    You're not providing anything. You mentioned crime. Immigrants in the US commit less crime than natives. I'm talking about studies like this rather than just stuff you'd read from people who already believe negative things about migrants and therefore you can't really discuss anything with them without first accepting their presuppositions.


    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-soc-071913-043309



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And yet you're still not answering the question?

    But, Ok... Answer me this then, if you will/can: Who among the US "native" disapora are more over-represented in crime, poverty, educational levels?

    You're actually reinforcing my points. Thanks BTW.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Uninstalled their app years ago when they restricted comments stopped the thumbs down on comments and it's got worse from there. All they are is a government propaganda news website now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,792 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    Had a listen to the section on this mornings Pat Kenny show there concerning the lax situation at our airports, probably one of the first calm discussions on msm I've heard which touched on the increased economic migration to this country and the reasons behind it, its patently obvious that Dublin is out the window, but have no fear a couple of guards are going to head up to the airport for an oul check twice a week, sure enough none of our ministers were available for comment .. I don't think this will be the last on this from PK, I've heard him before when he gets the bit between his teeth, anyone remember the electronic voting debacle? and how he and his team relentlessly picked holes in it, eventually it had to go but not after an almighty tussle, God knows what the whole episode cost.. Beware the risen Pat, he won't let this go (btw is he far right now for questioning the whole laissez-faire attitude on our borders ?? open border policy by the back door)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    btw is he far right now


    No, he isn’t. Pat’s nothing more than yet another (albeit incredibly wealthy) disillusioned liberal leftie who’s been left behind as it were, much like his other RTE broadcaster-at-arms (length) Joe Duffy; neither of them fit to fill Gaybo’s boots, as out of touch with reality as George Hook on a good day.

    As for Pat, he’s easily capable of wallowing in his own NIMBYism -

    https://www.thejournal.ie/pat-kenny-loses-battle-planning-apartments-4734580-Jul2019/


    Has never appreciated it being pointed out to him either -




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    ___________________________________



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    I don't get why he calls himself black when he is clearly coloured. I did ask him during the Presidential race why he did not run for councillor as a stepping stone into politics .He rebuked the suggestion. Pity !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Because it’s the overwhelmingly dominant gene? He may not see much of his Irish parent on him despite it being his mother. Anyways it’s a common theme



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Hmmm, wouldn't be surprised to see him attempt politics again in some way...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    The organisations you’re likely referring to have been anything but silent on this one, they’ve been lobbying to bring this about for decades. I’m relieved that the likes of Colm O’ Gorman aren’t pipping up to give their spake on it tbh. Less heard from them the better surely? 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Have they come out and been appalled by actions of these Muslims far right and if so any link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I took you up completely wrong. I’ve no idea who you’re referring to now. I thought the pro human rights crowd and diversity were the likes of Amnesty Ireland and that whole swathe of politically left-leaning NGOs that have been lobbying to have this kind of stuff on the curriculum for at least the last decade that the CPMSA are only objecting to now.

    Nobody of any flavour gives a shìt what the IMC says, the only time any feathers were ruffled is when Ali Selim used open his gob, but there hasn’t been a peep out of him in while. Just looked him up, now I remember he got fcuked out of it for his stupid comments about FGM:

    https://www.thejournal.ie/ali-selim-fgm-apology-3854030-Feb2018/

    I don’t expect any sort of reaction to the response by Muslims or far-right types to this one tbh, they’ve got their way and that’s all that matters. It just won’t be taught in Catholic ethos schools is all, which are about 90% of schools in Ireland. It’s already taught in ET schools, so the revised curriculum won’t make any difference in practical terms.

    All sides pretty much keeping their powder dry, and the IMC seeing an opportunity to signal their virtues. By that same token, I wouldn’t be breaking out the popcorn just yet, we’re only on the trailers, movie hasn’t even started 😳



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    i mean over the years.

    people tried to tell them about certain compatibility issues between these two groups. but normally this led to a ban.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Ireland is asleep on its feet and this fisherprice paddyism doesn't help at all

    Before the first week of 2023 had even ended we seen:

    1. A Brazilian woman murdered by her Brazillian boyfriend on New years in Cork. 

    2. Albanians & Georgians charged after New Years Day brawl resulting in multiple stabbings 

    3. A Latvian man was charged with assaulting a Ukrainian man with a bottle which resulted in the man almost bleeding to death. 

    4. Two African men were charged after seriously assaulting two lads, leaving them to be discovered seriously injured in a lane just off from Grafton Street.

    5. A Non-National (holder of 2 passports) charged with raping a woman At New Year's Party

    6. Two Romanian men charged with murder of Somali man whose body was found wrapped in carpet in Dublin 15

    Now let's look at how we've been enriched from the beginning of the year to date.....

    • Albanian Man jailed for 9 years over repeated rape of a 23-year-old woman in Galway.
    • Pakistani Step-dad gets life sentence after confessing to torture and murder of 5-yo girl
    • Afghan national charged with murder of a Romanian sex worker who had only been here a month before being murdered.
    • 'Russian-speaking' Ukranian mother charged with attempted murder of her eight-year-old daughter in Co Clare.
    • Romanian Hospital cleaner who posed as a teenage girl on Facebook and Snapchat to send explicit images to children is jailed for 5 years.
    • Moldovan man accused of sexually assaulting a female juvenile in Ballymun.
    • Brazilian Dublin airport corporate lounge employee jailed for involvement in cocaine smuggling valued at €1.43 million
    • Eritrean asylum seeker charged with sexually assaulting a female in a local bar.
    • Brazilian Man jailed for smuggling over €650,000 worth of cocaine into Ireland in shampoo bottles
    • Afghani pizza chef guilty & jailed for 20 months after attacking housemate with knives.
    • Eritrean asylum seeker accused of sexually assaulting two women was ‘trying to make friends.
    • Eritrea Woman who posed as a child (UAM) refugee charged with the attempted murder of social worker.

    And the above only accounts for a fraction of the serious crimes so far this year. It does not include the plethora of serious assaults, trafficking, brothels, drugs, money laundering, fraud, thefts, and robberies etc

    but sure didn't the Irish go all over the world and commit crimes too.....

    Post edited by 1800_Ladladlad on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    We're only responsible for one of the biggest cartels in the world and countless drug deaths but we are white and Irish so it's grand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,605 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Go on then. Which Irish (we?) criminal organisation is one of the biggest cartels in the world which is responsible for "countless" drug deaths?

    And I'll pre-warn you - why do you generalise guilt for criminality by some (Irish) individuals to an entire (Irish) people (we?) when I'd guess you would literally leap out of a 10th floor window to avoid making generalisations about the travelling community, long before we would talk about association of organised criminality with groups like Mexicans, Colombians, etc.

    I'll further warn you -I find it odd that "we", "us", "Irish" suddenly exists as a real, concrete thing when people like yourself are attacking we/us/Irish with communal crimes. But "we", "us", "Irish" becomes ethereal and hard to grasp or define when we talk about ourselves to exclude people who aren't "we" or "us" or "Irish". Or to make positive claims about "we", "us" or "Irish".

    And how weird it is that for people like yourself the inverse is true for people who are not "we" or "us" or "Irish". Who trained you to think this way?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    I stopped reading after the first paragraph, sorry. You made the post too difficult to read. If you could make the post easier to read and shorten it then I'd happily read and reply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    I did and its still ironic.

    Its amazing how it's "we" for one thing but rest are just separate incidents.

    But again I ain't surprised. Nobody is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Is it not "we" for us but "we" for the rest? You know you're dismissing all the points of the far right incel types also? Or is it just something specifically applying to just me? It's not "we" for the irish drug cartel which has caused and continues to cause countless drug deaths but "we" for the brazilian lad who got caught with a few grams of their product. A little ironic I would say.. Oooookay....



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    😂


    "I can't counter your argument so I won't read it"

    Devastating comeback there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    More like I can't read your argument, please put it in a clearer way, as stated. Have you tried to read what he wrote? One of the worst posts I've seen.

    Nice input though. We badly needed you in this thread.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Come on now. The post you replied to never said every Brazilian or Foreign national was bringing in illegal drugs.

    If he wrote down a Corkman or Irishman/woman brought illegal drugs into a country I would not get offended. Plenty Irish have done wrong too but funny thing is most Irish are happy are to see justice served. You don't see people getting offended.

    Every country in world wants protect its borders. We are no different and should never be any different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    This tripe has what to do with what I posted? I see you avoided the questions and went on some weird rant. Fair enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭lmao10


    You realise that anyone could find loads of crimes committed by Irish abroad if they bothered to do a google search and list them? You want to give me the motivation to provide such a list?



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    Not just policing posts for brevity, but policing who the threads "needs"

    Who made you sheriff?



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