What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

aziz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158972#Comment_120158972

No doubt another one of these doctors or engineers we are getting

Miadhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158979#Comment_120158979

A lot of folk don't like to be reminded of the inevitable results of their world view.

Strumms

https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-swoop-in-drug-raids-on-asylum-shelters/a-64499493

And the thanks assylum seekers give their German hosts ?..

Ahhh yes.. involve themselves in the highest levels of criminality that is ultimately responsible for death, destruction and more besides.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158979#Comment_120158979

I completely had tbh

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158732#Comment_120158732

Again no, because you're anti EU, and that's fine, you're pointing and have to point the blame there. This was standard operating procedure for the Brexit crowd and they were talking half truths or total bollocks to back their politics.

Those international obligations you speak of are extremely flexible and in the end down to the individual nations. Again the example of Syrians in Ireland demonstrates this. Even under pressure to accept more, we quite simply didn't. While you're at it look up how the numbers and responses varied across the EU. When the EU tried to organise and distribute Syrian refugees across the member states, five abstained off the bat and the Czechs and Germany went and suspended the Dublin protocol. Poland only took 200 and insisted they were Christian Syrians. We took in 3000 staggered over a decade. The Swedes took in many 10s of 1000s. The Danes were initially OK with it and then said nope and have since tightened the push for "diversity" right up. The Poles and other Eastern European nations were no buying it from the start.

As far as Ukrainians go we could have accepted say 10,000 and added a cap and insisted on some sort of vetting and visa arrangement and not given them full social welfare and health access and said we've played our part. Like pretty much everywhere else, but we didn't. That was again our choice, not the EU's. Though my personal, if cynical take on that is seeing the drive for more people to keep the consumer economy going plus pensions and all that, Ukrainians are seen as a windfall of sorts and the best bet to increase the numbers here, because they are significantly more likely to integrate and "fit in" over time, what with them being White, European, "Christian" and all that. In a way that a 100,000 say Ghanians, or Syrians for that matter quite simply wouldn't. The recent talk about 60% of them staying on permanently part of all that.

As I've noted before the vast majority of migration into our country over the past three decades has been other White Europeans or descendants of same from the US etc. Yet which diasporas get by far the most attention and from the media, the Right On "diversity is our strength" and the Right wing "we're being replaced" crowds? It's not the 200,000+ Poles, Germans, French, British, Spanish, American, Italian and so on. Why? Simply because they "fit in", aren't "diverse" enough for the multiculturalists, aren't seen by the Right wingers and are essentially invisible to both.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158979#Comment_120158979

I think it's convenient that everybody forgets about that

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158921#Comment_120158921

Such as?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157070#Comment_120157070

You just don't get it, you guys never do.

There are unintended consequences to the stuff you foist on people.

People who see their lives, their neighbourhoods, their way of life negatively affected get p**sed off and they lash out.

It has happened in US where thousands from old industrial areas were left behind by modern globalisation.

They were ignored or talked down to and hey presto someone comes along offering them an alternative, even if pie in the sky, to the option they see as more of the same.

That's how you got Trump and then when you lambast and ridicule these people they double down.

Hell they have nothing to lose much.

Likewise Brexit resulted in Britain.

Le Pen grew exponentially in France.

Italy got right wing government.

You can't negatively affect huge swaths of society and expect people to just take it.

The body politic in the Western world has a huge disconnect from ordinary normal people and people are turning elsewhere however unsavoury they may be.

Irexit is a stupid idea, but then again so is inviting in, at this stage it looks like hundreds of thousands, of dodgy chancers from the world's hellholes who offer nothing to this country bar a drain on resources and social problems.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157391#Comment_120157391

The usual "anyone who disagrees with us is ignorant, uneducated, unintelligent"

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158972#Comment_120158972

Any comment from the usual excusors of these scum ?

You will either get tumbleweed or one of the flutes claiming it was staged.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161935#Comment_120161935

Irexit is a stupid idea, but then again so is inviting in, at this stage it looks like hundreds of thousands, of dodgy chancers from the world's hellholes who offer nothing to this country bar a drain on resources and social problems.

Which again is bugger all to do with the EU. So why the hell do some keep bringing it up? It's us, it's our politicians, it's our NGOs, it's our bleeding hearts and vested interests in media and business. Not the EU.

Leaving the EU would have no direct effect, save for plunging the country into recession which tends to put off the "asylum seekers", except for the genuine ones of course*. So yeah that might work in that sense. Or not. Britain's economy is stalled and they're out of the EU and did so with a strop, burning bridges behind them, yet they're still having problems with non European migrants on dinghies crossing the English channel and keep going on about it. Never mind the various diasporas they invited in from their defunct empire down the decades. The Brexit eejits complaining about the "darkies" forgot they imported them. What leaving the EU did far more was cut the flow of pale Europeans into their country.

*I knew an asylum seeking family in the early 80's. Y'know when Ireland was fecked. The lad I knew his parents settled here because they were accepted and it was safe. And remember this wasn't long after when Ireland begrudgingly took in just 200 Vietnames "Boat People" after international pressure, so this guy's family were clearly in danger.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158972#Comment_120158972

Thats shocking behaviour, real tough man isn't he threatening to sexually assault 2 women who are just doing their job.

No wonder people are protesting at bus loads of men arriving when you see this kind of thing.

DaithiMa

One of the arguments often put forward by those in favour of this politic is that if we integrate the new arrivals better into our communities then it will work out differently than it has in every other country.

I'd like to know what the thoughts are on the Irish government building thousands (possibly tens of thousands) of modular homes and filling them up with refugees/asylum seekers?

Will this not create the exact same conditions that has caused many of the massive problems that have occured in other countries such as ghettoisation and 'enclaves' of immigrants like you see in Molenbeek in Belgium or in many banlieues in France?

If we are going to 'do it better' than other countries surely we should be learning from their mistakes. Or is it just a case that the pro-multiculturalists don't actually care and they just want to pile as many in as possible?

Astartes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162389#Comment_120162389

Flip the script. If that was a white male and black woman... Could you imagine the meltdown?

I always laughed/wondered at stories from the Soviet Union at how much of an upside down mindf*ck the whole thing was. How could it get like that? Now its happening here. Up is down, left is right and 2+2=5, because people are terrified to speak out.

Miadhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161937#Comment_120161937

"Irish people commit crimes too you racist"

Jinglejangle69

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-jailed-for-randomly-punching-three-people-in-the-face-in-dublin-city-centre-1424411.html?fbclid=IwAR1nAal4ugb5cgASsw97q6xwco_7Ze_WlZwsn7tOV4jZXijtd0ppGmtBOEM

Another one of our future doctors from Zimbabwe…

Jarhead_Tendler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163029#Comment_120163029

Guy with same name has a lot of previous physical assaults going back to 2013

lmao10

Has he been diagnosed with schizophrenia? Did he come here when he was 12 with his family? Just going off the reports.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163609#Comment_120163609

80 previous convictions, if he's not a citizen (and he might well be) then he should be deported.

I don't really care what age he came here at. His family can decide if they follow him

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159138#Comment_120159138

It’s not a case of ‘fitting in’. It’s a case that they all needed feck all when they get here. Not looking for a house or apartment from us, free public transport, healthcare, … all the Poles, Brazilians, French, Italians I’ve known came here not for help, protection or to be given anything… I’ve worked with loads.

oour choice ? That’s hilarious 😂…. We’ve had as citizens ZERO choice… since day one. Politicians made it clear that no way would we have a say, or even be listened to… ‘deal with it’…has been the mantra.

In 8/9 months since people began arriving anything even approaching questioning, disagreeing, suggesting alternatives has been met with….dismissive, arrogant petulance from the government, NGO’s and the supporters and enablers of this horror show… not to mention..lies…

so completely undemocratic in other words. All very well us self righteous people and politicians mocking less just, free, fair and transparent regimes elsewhere, on other continents…. But really we are not being listened to, we have zero say. Our government and politicians are acting in bad faith, broadly ignoring the opinions, concerns, requirements and wellbeing of Irish taxpayers. This is starting to look like a dictatorship in terms of policy and decision making.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166534#Comment_120166534

I mean "our choice" in the sense of our political leaders. Oh it's cerainly not our choice as citizens, or our choice is pretty much unmeasured on this subject. The only choice we did get because it was a constitutional thing was on the jus soli vote in 04 and we made our feelings clear there and it was "nope".

The singular problem is our Hobson's choice of candidates and parties. All of the parties that anyone halfway sensible would tick a box beside sing from the same "multicultural" hymn sheet. FFG obviously do, the busted flush that is Lab would be worse, or just as bad as the utterly useless, some might say stupidly dangerous Greens. And if anyone thinks SF are any sort of choice on this particular matter I've magic beans to sell you. If anything they'll be worse. The only ones that don't sing from this hymn sheet are tiny catholic Ireland, Irexit, actual right wingers who would struggle to fill a hotel lounge with their voters. Y'know, morons. There isn't an example of a party that would be sensible centrists on most talking points and who are sensible centrists on immigration. That's our problem in Ireland. In essence we've ended up with a one party system, the names just change. Plus in Irish politics it's the case that when the trough is wide enough and it is, the piglets won't fight over it.

I've voted in every election, local and national, and every referendum since I proudly got my first voter card. Well I did up until the last general election. Because of all of what I wrote above I just didn't bother tbh. In the future unless I see genuine measured alternatives, independents or otherwise I'll only vote in referenda. And I hate having to type that.

But again this has bugger all to do with the EU as you were saying earlier and that was the point I was making. As for your examples listed, save for the Brazillians(too many of whom are also illegals) the rest are fellow EU members so are a very different bunch, one we did vote for to allow intra-EU free movement. One I voted for myself. They're all legal. Fitting in is a biggie and the elephant in the room of this multiculturalist politic. In every single case of European(and beyond) multicultural societies, the people who look or appear to act, or act least like the locals face the most problems and societies feel the most problems from them. Basic human nature. Like I said before the facts are the vast majority of inward migration into Ireland over the last 30 years have been European or of European extraction. The Poles alone dwarf the number of Africans, yet are essentially invisible to the left, the right, the media, the government and NGO's. Ireland has a Black history month for feck's sake, yet the Poles don't get a wet Tuesday in November. We have far more historical connections to nations like Spain and France, even Italy yet they get nada too. If you want to figure out the squeaky wheel, ask where the oil goes.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162757#Comment_120162757

One of the arguments often put forward by those in favour of this politic is that if we integrate the new arrivals better into our communities then it will work out differently than it has in every other country.

Well that's the rub and a major problem for the pro muliticulturalists. Ask them to point out an example of all those muliticultural nations out there with all their different histories, cultures and politics where the exact same social, political and ethnic patterns don't emerge, consolidate and persist over time and the generations. They can't answer, because there quite simply isn't one, which is puzzling for such a boon and strength this politic is claimed to be.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172953#Comment_120172953

Well the people who don't want to integrate and get along with the migrants, don't want to integrate and get along with the migrants. Almost everyone who is anti migrant in this thread won't want to get along with them of course. Most people will and government policy should really encourage those types that won't do it, to change. Although generally the difference will be seen in the future generations and the old todgers of today will die off with their beliefs thankfully. If that wasn't the case you'd still have things like slavery and apartheid being legalised and so on. The old todgers slowly died off and the new gen were complicit in making the changes while the old todgers were still making the same old tired arguments as we see from your post.

AllForIt

I don't see how you can have multi cultures at the same time everyone is 'integrated'.

You can only preserve the cultures by preserving non-integration.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175437#Comment_120175437

Yeah that would be all grand if we didn't have numerous examples of nations running this multicultural experiment over many decades and several generations with the same results over time. These "old todgers" you seem positively obsessed with appear to be remarkably long lived. Oh and i hate to burst your bubble, but of those who drove the changes against slavery and apartheid a large percentage were "old todgers". Read some history.

But again you avoid the question, because the answer doesn't agree with your faith in this political/social experiment. Again I ask you; point out an example of all those muliticultural nations out there with all their different histories, cultures and politics where the exact same social, political and ethnic patterns don't emerge. Again Part 3; you can't.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158972#Comment_120158972

When you see stuff like this of absolute scum behaviour - sexually threatening ppl just going about their daily job, is it any wonder ppl are protesting against open border access for unvetted men??

Kyokushin Grappler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176250#Comment_120176250

And it's only going to get worse the longer this is allowed to go on.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176201#Comment_120176201

You need to go into way more detail about the metrics you are using to come to those conclusions since you're the one making whatever argument you're making. I've seen you writing essays so it shouldn't be a problem. Back everything up with stats. Although it is difficult to deal with your posts because you tend to ramble a bit. The pro slavery/apartheid scumbags were making similar arguments.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179525#Comment_120179525

No they weren't. Economics strongly came into it and who else will do the work arguments(no real coincidence that abolition and steam power came around the same time), but their overall excuse was it was "the natural order of things", even Aristotle struggling to explain away slavery as a state came to a similar conclusion. Again I respectfully suggest you read more books on the matter.

But again I ask you to name one "multicultural" nation where people of colour are not more likely to be over-represented in stats on poverty, lack of education and crime.

And indeed more likely to be framed in negative stereotypes with it. Well unless they're successful in biz, sport or the arts, where they're pointed to and painted as "success stories of diversity". Easier for the "natives" to ignore the wider realities, especially the so called "liberal" ones. Malcolm X had their number back in the 60's. Racism and "The Other" factor is of course a massive part of this, however rather than pull the usual "we need more education/resources/dialogue" stuff as a panacea(though we have to now in hope of papering the cracks as the horse has long bolted) I prefer if reluctantly to face facts, as many POC do, if you actually asked them, that multicultural societies don't work nearly so well as the flag bearers of this politic claim or like to think. Least of all for the very groups we claim they do work for.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179725#Comment_120179725

You're not providing anything. You mentioned crime. Immigrants in the US commit less crime than natives. I'm talking about studies like this rather than just stuff you'd read from people who already believe negative things about migrants and therefore you can't really discuss anything with them without first accepting their presuppositions.

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-soc-071913-043309

Wibbs

And yet you're still not answering the question?

But, Ok... Answer me this then, if you will/can: Who among the US "native" disapora are more over-represented in crime, poverty, educational levels?

You're actually reinforcing my points. Thanks BTW.