Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

Mellor · 01-05-2022 9:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118999716#Comment_118999716

This sounds good. Especially counting rolls. I can definitely see how it encourages you to squeeze in extra sessions. It also highlights how people don’t train as much as they think. If the typical week is 3 days, people assume that’s the average. But you miss sessions far more often that you get extra.

I track training sessions and hours. Have an app to do it, but I’ve been really slack last few months. Should try fix that.

Black Sheep · 08-05-2022 1:49pm

When it comes to BJJ and supplementary training, I'd offer up the following.

Cardio

To improve your cardio for BJJ there is no substitute for BJJ. Over the years I've tried tabata protocols, long slow distance training, metabolic conditioning, you name it... None of them work as well as more mat time. If your cardio needs work, try to build in more time rolling or drilling, and if full extra rounds are not an option then an option is to increase your rounds' duration or do a very long round in the mix.

Someone that has the time to build 4-5 BJJ sessions into their week is probably not going to need supplementary cardio. If you're someone that is only training 1-2 times a week, and a lot of older trainees fall into this category, then it might be more of an idea, even for general health tbh.

If you are 30+, also lifting weights, or are otherwise training a lot then it is worth keeping it to low intensity cardio in order to recover better. That might just be a very fast incline walk for 30 minutes a few times a week.

Mobility / Yoga

I'm Yoga for BJJ certified, but actually I think someone should only get into it if they particularly enjoy it, I don't feel like it's an essential. Although it's often touted as a means of rehabbing injuries or actually avoiding injuries, if that is a goal then actually I think increasing joint stability and developing muscle mass via weight training is a better approach.

Probably the best way to try Yoga for BJJ it is to run their start-up week during a free trial and see what you think of it. They used to offer a free trial period, not sure if that's still the case.

Finally... Yoga for BJJ is just modern flow yoga. Sebastian is a great BJJ player, and although he 'programs' the yoga slightly towards what he think is most beneficial for BJJ players (More opening of the front of the body), it is still just modern flow yoga like you can find from multiple teachers. I wouldn't be afraid to go elsewhere.

Strength training

I believe strength training is the real key to longevity and wellbeing in BJJ. Almost any chronic or acute injury that you suffer in BJJ can either be mitigated or resolved via strength training. Problems with knees, necks, hips, shoulders ... The answer to resolving symptoms or prehabbing against is rarely just to increase mobility, it's going to be to strengthen the surrounding musculature in most cases.

When I was a white belt and blue I was training BJJ 4-5 times a week and lifting 2 a week. Since I went past 40, as a purple and brown, I have flipped that completely. I do 1-3 high quality BJJ sessions a week and I'm lifting 3-4 days a week to stay healthy.

barryribs · 10-05-2022 9:02am

Great post 👆️

selassie · 15-05-2022 11:38pm

Deleted.

Mellor · 16-05-2022 8:58am

Cardio

To improve your cardio for BJJ there is no substitute for BJJ. Over the years I've tried tabata protocols, long slow distance training, metabolic conditioning, you name it... None of them work as well as more mat time. If your cardio needs work, try to build in more time rolling or drilling, and if full extra rounds are not an option then an option is to increase your rounds' duration or do a very long round in the mix.

Good post, a few things I'd add. I agree that there is no substitute for mat time for improving "rolling cardio". But I think this also misinterpreted a lot (not saying you are to be clear).

There's no such thing sports specific cardio. You don't improve running cardio by running, or bike cardio by cycling. You only have one cardiovascular system, you improves as you train it. The issue for most people with pure cardio in BJJ, is that they are simply moving inefficiently. They are rolling in too high a gear to get the work done. By getting rounds and rounds in, you can get the same work done in a lower gear and stamina goes up.

It's absolutely best to focus on rolling efficiently like that to get better. But I'd also add that if you genuinely have poor cardio (either untrained, or maybe post injury) then it's also worth targeting that with supplementary training.

Mobility / Yoga

I'm Yoga for BJJ certified, but actually I think someone should only get into it if they particularly enjoy it, I don't feel like it's an essential. Although it's often touted as a means of rehabbing injuries or actually avoiding injuries, if that is a goal then actually I think increasing joint stability and developing muscle mass via weight training is a better approach.

Finally... Yoga for BJJ is just modern flow yoga.

Agree also. It's a good program, and has some BJJ specific application. But it's not magic, its still just yoga. any other yoga is going to be good. But Injury rehab should be injury specific, not sport specific.

I've also been looking at aggressive stretching programs for splits, pancake etc. Definitely not necessary. But beneficial is you want to improve guard retention and similar positions.

Strength training

Goes without saying. The "your really strong" backhanded bjj compliment exists for a reasons. Get string and smash things.

The ideas; "Strength does not matter in BJJ", "BJJ uses strength against you", etc are absolute nonsense.

Mellor · 20-05-2022 3:40pm

Flo putting on a TUF grappling show.

Episode available online for free

https://www.flograppling.com/collections/7781439-whos-next-full-episodes/video?playing=7781448

07-06-2022 6:48am

Hi everyone

I would like to ask for recommendations for BJJ schools in Kildare (Naas / Newbridge, SW Dublin (City West or Tallaght), or west Wicklow. I and my family live abroad currently and my sons are doing BJJ with a great Gracie Barra school. When we relocate to Ireland next year, the move will be difficult for them and one thing I - and they - would like to keep constant is their BJJ journey. Any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

Black Sheep · 07-06-2022 9:53am

Kildare / Naas options:-

SBG Naas: Very reputable coaches line-up. I trained with Cian Conlan years ago when we were blue belts and he is a nice guy. SBG also has a very proven approach to teaching kids and teenagers. Between Newbridge and Naas in terms of location.

Husaria Naas: Marius Domasatz has also been involved in grappling / BJJ in Ireland for a long time and Husaria has a reputable name, it would be another one to check out.

Silverback Jiu Jitsu: Between Rathcoole and Celbridge. Mario (Mariusz?) Gyzwinski is an SBG black belt, again, a very nice guy and training and teaching a long time, although the school is newer.

In Tallaght you have a number of options, there's an SBG (Not sure who coaches), there's Paddy Holohan's gym (ex SBG) and you have a few smaller BJJ schools like Checkmat, Southside BJJ and Grappling University.

I don't know the scene in Wicklow but Arklow BJJ seems to be running and the other option then would be Chris Leddy's BJJ school in Bray, another chap who has been training and teaching a long time and would definitely recommend.

There IS a Gracie Barra in Sandyford Business Park, with a great coach, Chris Bowe, but location-wise it may not suit you. I guess a Gracie Barra school would have been the ultimate in continuity for them.

Good luck with the move, hopefully the BJJ does help the kids adjust.

09-06-2022 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168216#Comment_119168216

Thank you Black Sheep. This is really helpful and exactly what I was looking for.

Mellor · 11-06-2022 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168216#Comment_119168216

I've trained in a few of those places. All were good. I think you've covered options well.

I would also add that coaches, reputation, reviews etc are all well and good. But it's also important to get a convient location imo. Especially for kids

RoboRat · 11-07-2022 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987348#Comment_118987348

So, I'm back about 2 months, not getting to go as frequently as I used to - hitting 1 or 2 sessions a week.

Funny situation, I am almost back to my old level with the coloured belts, especially the purples, and I'm rolling very comfortably (despite my knee and ankle being absolute ****), but I'm finding some of the whites troublesome.

I'm in complete control but I'm finding them a harder nut to crack than the coloured belts. Perhaps it's just the rolls are more open with the coloured belts. I'm not getting frustrated, I know I just need to get tweak my game and figure them out because they clam up and I'm probably being a bit more conservative subconsciously with the whites because of my knee and ankle, and my experience of white belts spazzing out and causing injury.

Loving being back in a competitive environment anyhow :-)

Mini850 · 12-07-2022 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320419#Comment_119320419

As a purple belt, I now tend to work on something in particular when rolling, guard retention, a specific sub, a specific sub defense or defense from a compromised position.

As a result, I know I'm leaving myself more open to subs. Working on a specific defense to say back attacks, I'm obviously half looking to expose my back and let someone take that position. "Let" is a strong word. Resisting but not to the best of my ability.

Then I get to work on my escapes, Subs(yes there are subs you can do against someone whos has your back) but often enough, ill get submitted from there. I mean 9 times out of ten you're at a disadvantage against someone who understands the position.

So this may be what you're experiencing. For me, the days of rolling to win are long gone unless tournaments are on the horizon.

nozzferrahhtoo · 21-07-2022 11:10am

Hasn't been great recently here. A holiday kept me out of class. Then straight after the holiday a Covid diagnosis kept me out for more time. Then on the first class back I got some strain/sprain in my ankle and that kept me out. So not much progress or gains here really.

Still enjoying it though. Strangely one thing I enjoy is how uncomfortable it makes me. I've always been relatively quiet and in my personal space or off by myself in my own head or whatever. So getting up close and personal and physical with people makes me rather uncomfortable. But making myself endure that and enjoy it seems to benefit me a lot. I still go into every class pretty much dreaded aspects of it. But seem to derive a lot of benefit physically and emotionally from facing that, enduring it, and coming out both enjoying it and having learned something from it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989748#Comment_118989748

I am an amateur still to both BJJ and all kinds of training. I have been a computer geek for my entire life and am in early 40s now. So I am not in a position to give out any advice.

But that said... I have certainly noticed the things that feed into my own BJJ. While BJJ can be a full body work out... I certainly notice that my leg strength is everything especially when I have people in my guard and I get good hooks with my feet. I am a short guy with a little extra body weight around the waist. But I have muscle bound he-men struggling to break my legs open when I get them in my guard. So running and cycling and rowing machine have certainly had an effect there. At 73KG myself I find I struggle to make 20 reps on most fixed weight machines when it is set to only 25KG. So very little arms strength here really. But with my Legs I can do 20 or 30 reps on the leg press machine even when it's set to 2 or 2.5 times my body weight.

But everything seems to fit into BJJ. I have been doing a lot of press ups (for me a lot, for most people training probably almost none) and I have had a few people I have rolled with comment on how my strength has gone up when they are battling me. Especially my "frame" which is what I think it is called when you put your hands together, arms at right angle, to hold off an opponent. (Since I am training in German, I get a lot of the BJJ lingo wrong in English!).

Im not a great swimmer but I am assuming swimming, which like BJJ is a full body workout, is also going to feed in well.

But I struggle to think of any work outs or exercises I have done recently which I have failed to find feed positively into my BJJ in some way. Even upping my 10km runs to 16km recently has had an effect because as I wrote in an earlier post ENDURANCE is a big thing. When I roll against someone I have noticed that while they might tap me out 3 times in a row, by the 4th I am popping up ready to go again and they are slowly pulling themselves to their feet panting and sweating with hardly the strength to go on. So I am getting closer and closer to besting them then in that way too.

So I think one secret with training and workouts is to find what keeps you coming back. What is better, something that has a 25% improvement on your BJJ but you hate it so struggle to find motivation and eventually give up or start missing sessions.... or something that while it might only have a 10% effect on your BJJ, you love it, keep coming back to it, keep showing up, and keep making the gains?

Drumpot · 21-07-2022 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367428#Comment_119367428

It’s gas that you made this post now. I’ve been following this thread for ages (just forgot to tap out when I wasn’t actually reading). After your response in another thread mentioned Martial arts earlier, I contacted a local BJJ club and am going to a session tonight to see what it’s about.

I’m not excited at the thought of actually fighting other people. In my mind it was about exercise that might be less boring and maybe some breathing/meditation type elements. What is it about the combat that has you motivated to continue and be better if you dread it?

Drumpot · 21-07-2022 7:36pm

F**k me BJJ is hardcore. I thought I’d just be watching tonight, doing some mad move. Didn’t realise I could be so nimble but my gluts are tight as feck!!

Im gonna sign up to the 8 week starter!!!

nozzferrahhtoo · 22-07-2022 8:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369592#Comment_119369592

Check that. My first lesson was the same. Learned one take down, not even any fighting. Then the class went into actual rolling. So I had to, with zero knowledge skill or experience, get right into fighting. I had no idea it was going to happen. And they made bits of me when it did.

I have heard it said, and it is true, that mostly there is two reactions to that. Some people feel awful at being made bits of so easily and never come back. The other people pop back up after tapping out and think "AGAIN!". It's so fascinating how even a small teen age girl can turn a grown strong man into her literal puppet and do what she wants with him. All through knowledge.

So you probably already know the answer to your own question in your previous post now. The fact you went straight into signing a starter shows that. But it is essentially that. It's fascinating. Almost like playing chess, but the chess pieces are body parts. And as you learn each move you start to see how they can chain together, much like they do in chess. And, to a certain point, the strength or size of your opponent can be rendered irrelevant purely by knowledge. And it's a sport where, a good bit more than any other sport, even failure and losing really feels like progress. I tell my kids, who are studying it now too "You do not so much win or lose when you are rolling, but win or learn". So the "loser" is almost the winner in a sense.

The other motivation to answer your question is, as I said, the personal challenge of making myself engage with things that make me uncomfortable. I have lived WAY WAY too long in my comfort zone. To the point it feeds into mental ill health and depression and lethargy. So I am challenging that in myself and pushing myself outside my comfort zone in many areas of my life recently. The it has all been positive results so far.

The main thing I would say to you about motivation is... you will find many classes now where you feel you are making no progress and not getting any better. Mainly because as you learn... the others around you are learning too. So it can be hard to really see your own progress. Especially if you are being tapped out all the time.

But a few times now a new person has joined... or someone who has been away for awhile has rejoined.... and suddenly when rolling with them I have seen my progress much clearly and had an "Aha" moment of "Wow I really have been learning and progressing here!". So if you feel down with your progress, just try to remember that it's a hard sport to train with the same people over and over and gauge progress because they are progressing too.

Also do not feel that progress means always tapping other people out. Set goals for yourself in rolling. For example some days I go in and play purely defensive, especially against people I know beat me every time. If they tapped me out in 30 seconds a couple of weeks ago then I play defensive and play my guard and play my escapes and frames and just frustrate them. They might still tap me out... but suddenly its taking 5 8 or 10 minutes to get me. That's progress too and can win a lot of respect from them also.

Watching you tube video can be good or bad. You can over watch and fill your head with way too much stuff and confuse yourself and feel overwhelmed and inadequate. But you can also do it right. Watch a few videos and pick 1 or 2 moves that A) look intuitive enough to you and B) tend to be done in positions you usually find yourself (for example I usually end up with people in my guard). Then watch a lot of videos centred solely around those 1 or 2 moves. See it from every angle, with every explanation and minor variation. Then spend a couple of weeks trying that move out yourself on all the people you roll with and when the teacher or some of the higher belts looks free and you are not interrupting his class or his flow do not be afraid to ask him to critique your execution of that move.

Finally you mentioned breathing and meditation. A strange skill in BJJ is breathing. When rolling or watching others roll its amazing how many people simply forget to breath. The concentration and stress of the moment just stops them doing it. Which has all kinds of impacts on your energy and endurance. Even belts higher than me I have noticed them not breathing during battle and even going quite red in the face from it. So an awareness of that from day 1 is probably going to help you a lot.

Hope you report back after the 8 week starter :) And if like me you feel dread or lack of motivation going in.... just remember the bounce in your step you have coming out.

Drumpot · 22-07-2022 8:42am

Is it normal to have kneck pain after the class? I get I’m trying out something new so some muscles won’t know what’s going on but I couldn’t move my kneck properly for maybe an hour ( no biggie). Also felt a bit sick but that could be my inner ear as it’s been an issue for a week or so, I can get bad motion sickness but presume that wouldn’t be an issue (although rolling around the floor may not be ideal for that).

Are there any good complimentary training or stretching techniques anybody can recommend?

What’s the story with the competitions , I was only looking to try it out , it hadn’t crossed my mind that learning and doing it competitively might be on the table. Can you just do it like football and playing 5 aside , keep it casual learning? Lastly that cauliflower ear thing, is it easy to get or rare? Im lot looking to be overly intense on this but defo dont want that!

Mellor · 25-07-2022 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371015#Comment_119371015

Neck pain and injuries are non uncommon. But you should really try your best to avoid those situations.

Don’t let yourself get stacked on your neck (eg when you have a triangle)
Dont let people fold your head down (can opener). Keep posture and frame in your neck
Some chokes also crank the neck a fair bit. If something is hurting your neck, then tap. Refusing because it’s not choking you is dumb (but very common)

Any strength, cardio or mobility training is good. Pick what you like best and need best. I do strength training, and flexibility training. I’ll need to revisit cardio soon.

You can learn and train as casually as you like. You can also compete seriously or casually.

Cauliflower eat isn’t super rare. But it happens. Some people are more prone that others. If you do get it, drain it asap. Otherwise it will calcify and harden. They it’s stuck there

Black Sheep · 28-07-2022 8:47am

Neck pain can be hard to quantify, but if you are very immobile after training (or the following day), that is likely a red flag. I’m talking about a significant loss of ROM in your neck, inability to look over your shoulder easily and so on. I wouldn’t overlook it if it’s frequent.

The number of people in BJJ with bulging discs is quite high in the long term, and for me it started with stuff like this. I dismissed it as just muscle strain at the start. If it develops as an issue it’s hard to resolve, and has caused a lot of people to basically quit.

Some discomfort and DOMS is normal when taking up a new activity but in BJJ beginners frequently go too hard and when it comes to the neck and low back you will get away with it for a while but eventually it catches up.

Tap early, as Mellor says. Don’t “tough out” a bad position where your neck is compromised. I would also say give up passes rather than being stacked but you may need someone to show you what that means in practice.

In general, take it easy at white belt - it’s a marathon not a sprint. If you were playing 5 aside on weeknights you would not treat every game as the cup final, same with rolls.

Mellor · 20-01-2023 12:39am

Been quiet in here lately. Is everyone still training.

I've been slack for all of last. Injury, covid, and work all getting in the way. Hoping to hit 2023 with a decent flow. Going to target 10 sessions a month, not a big ask, but will fall way short in Jan. 1 in the bag so far. (holidays, then I was sick)

Drumpot · 20-01-2023 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397689#Comment_119397689

This is very interesting coming up on my feed now.

I tried Ju Jitsu once. Didn’t realise in the class that you participate. On the one on ones I did what I always do and over did it and had some lad swinging off my kneck at one stage as I tried to shake him off me. In every one on one id try my hardest and most definitely put strain on my kneck.

I couldn’t look left or right driving home without real pain and limitation. Just presumed it would get better with rest but my kneck hasn’t been really bad but not right since.

Now I wouldn’t of thought of my kneck as an issue but I’ve been having numbness and tingling a lot that’s been getting worse. I went to an osteopath in November and ever since it’s gotten worse. At the time I went to them about headaches but they were doing all sorts of crunching on my kneck and back.

Also needle physio and today it’s been really sore. Might ask physio about it.

Now whenever my body warms , I do excercise or I get any sort of emotional I get pain and irritation waves in different parts of my body (which usually indicates maybe nerve damage or something like that).

I was thinking maybe it was long covid related in some way but the kneck injury thing is probably worth exploring. (

MrStuffins · 20-01-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132375#Comment_120132375

We had a bit of gym drama and the gym split. The coach wasn't actually running the gym, it was a strange setup whereby the gym as a business was being run by one of the blue belts and he hired the black belt coach. They had a falling out and the coach set up his own gym. Most of us followed him.

The opening of the new gym coincided with a load of stuff piling on at home and at work so I went from previously training four days a wek to once or twice a week. Stick on top that that getting sick in late Nov followed by Covid as soon as I was well.

I've set myself the goal of 150 sessions in 2023. Not a lot, but I break it down into segments. I need to do 25 by the end of Feb and that kicks my arse a bit when i'm feeling lazy or whatever. Also have a set number of rounds I need to do and have that broken down into rounds with coloured belts too to have myself preying on new Janury white belts 😂

Black Sheep · 20-01-2023 9:41pm

BJJ taking a bit of a backseat for me at the moment, I am just finding that a baby in the house and being busy at work, it has slid to the bottom of my priorities list.

But it's always in the back of my mind, there's a kimono packed in a rucksack in my office at work waiting to go if I got a long enough window to take a break...

Mellor · 21-01-2023 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133276#Comment_120133276

It’s not an uncommon setup where the financial owner, is not the head coach. But I think it only works where the gym is pretty big with multiple coaches. Relying on one coach is a strange dynamic.

What’s the new gym called?

Dave 101 · 25-01-2023 1:09pm

First class on the year in 20 mins, hope to average 2 classes per week going forward but as people mentioned above its hard with work and kids etc

MrStuffins · 25-01-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137702#Comment_120137702

I'll PM you the name of the gym.......

It was a pretty straight forward break up in the end but the guy who ran the old gym (now the head coach) decided not to see it that way and has exhibited hard feelings. It's a shame because the lads from that gym and our lads are still friends but the coach is being a bit weird with it. Unnecessarily so!

For example, I tried to go to one of the Open Mats soon after, just to "rip the plaster off" so to speak. No point letting things fester you know?

I text the coach from the old gym and told him I was dropping in. I was effectively told I wasn't welcome. So not so much an Open Mat........ just a Mat 😂

MrStuffins · 25-01-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155305#Comment_120155305

Good luck man. First in a year is a big step! Most people get to 6-7 months and decide too much time has passed. Congrats on getting back on the horse!

Mellor · 25-01-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155531#Comment_120155531

That’s so juvenile. Blacklisting people simply because they train somewhere else. Sadly common in bjj. People dress it as loyalty, but it’s rooted in money imo.

Gyms are businesses. We’re the customer. I’ve no time, for gyms that act like that.

MrStuffins · 25-01-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155607#Comment_120155607

Edited

Black Sheep · 25-01-2023 11:00pm

Dublin bjj isn't that big, so I (and probably a few others) have figured out what gym you are in, which gym is the old gym, and who the coaches involved are.

I'm not stepping in as a Mod on this - but I'd ask you to leave it there in terms of saying any more on this. I don't want to see anyone being criticised if they're not on here to give their side / defend themselves.

I appreciate a gym split is a big thing but is it good to air it out here?

Black Sheep · 28-01-2023 8:49pm

Two questions...

Does your club start from standing when rolling, or typically does one person pass on their feet and the other person begins sitting / playing guard?

Does anyone's club have a blanket ban on leglocks at open mats, no matter the belt of the people rolling?

Genuinely curious. I was in a club I haven't been at in a long time, and I was a small bit surprised they were going with the above. I'm not saying it's wrong (it can be argued both ways), but just curious what is more common these days.

Mellor · 29-01-2023 7:54am

Typically we begin one seated and one passing. Slap, bump and one person sits or stands. Only exception to the is the advanced nogi class, starts standing as it’s very wrestling dominant.

Leglicks are all always on the table. White belts learn leglocks - and need to know 4 basic types to get a blue belt.

Dave 101 · 31-01-2023 11:13am

No rules on how we start and leg locks are ok for everyone

Black Sheep · 04-02-2023 10:42am

I'll answer my own question -

We always start from standing, to facilitate takedowns.

IBJJF adult leglock rules are what we use to regulate leglocks. So for white belts its straight footlocks only in the kimono.

I don't feel strongly about the leglock issue. Training in the kimono, I don't believe the risk of injury associated with lower belts training with toe holds and knee bars is substantially any greater than with having them perform kimuras. If there is appropriate coaching I wouldn't be overly concerned if they were introduced early. But in practical terms I also think if you have people competing at white belt I don't think it's that bad an idea to have them mainly using the IBJJF rule set.

I would also argue that anyone who does want to play leglocks can benefit from beginning with understanding straight footlock entries / set-ups / finishes and there's a carryover to broadening out then as you go up the belts. There is a universal applicability to learning positions like single leg x, modified single leg x, sweeping from there, various leg entanglements and how to use or escape them. My introduction to leglocks was straight footlock systems from Gustavo Gasperin and Oli Geddes.

Very limited nogi training in our gym so heelhooks are not really a factor.

On the starting from standing issue, I probably have evolved a clear preference for starting from standing. I accept that for space reasons it's not always possible, but if the space is there then I think it's important. If anything there is probably a greater injury risk (than from leglocks) in allowing a relatively high number of takedowns and scrambles to occur - which they will - but I think it has to be accepted.

Even if you are a guard puller it is probably better to learn how to properly pull guard against a standing opponent.

GerBear93 · 06-02-2023 7:32pm

Hoping someone can help me out here.

Looking at starting BJJ but my schedule will only allow me to do morning classes. 6am preferably. Anyone know of any BJJ places that do 6am classes in South Dublin?

Black Sheep · 06-02-2023 8:15pm

East Coast Jiu Jitsu has a 6.15am class on their timetable.

MrStuffins · 07-02-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208876#Comment_120208876

Holohan Martial Arts has morning classes as well AFAIK

Mellor · 14-02-2023 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200292#Comment_120200292

For me the issue with adhering directly to the IBJJF rules. Is that people are really ill prepared for moving up the next level.

Imagine a purple belt moving up to brown, having never rolled with kneebars or toeholds. I’d assume they’d be caught with those subs a lot.

Would be an advantage for other gyms knowing opponents had these holes in their game.

Black Sheep · 15-02-2023 7:12pm

Well, I *was* a purple who played straight footlocks and did make that transition... Toe holds became my number one sub when rolling as a brown versus other browns and black belts. Still is now at black.

I did a few sessions with browns and blacks as a purple and went through what was needed for the finish and if you understand that then you understand a lot of the defence. I don't remember it being that onerous, but I was interested I guess.

I still think the straight footlocks set me up to learn better.

I think your point would be very valid in a full time nogi gym like a 10th planet place, maybe even in a place that is 50/50. But in a gym where most people are in a kimono for most classes and many looking to compete it would be, IMO, odd to spend much if any time at lower belts on techniques that are generally banned in comps for them. Heel hooks completely out in the gi anyway.

Mellor · 01-03-2023 3:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245146#Comment_120245146

I people are focused on competing only under the IBJJF ruleset it makes sense to bias techniques that are allowed in comp. But I suspect most serious competitors to prepare at least a level ahead.

A purple belt who can’t attack and defend kneebars and toe holds has a massive whole in their game in my view.

Black Sheep · 01-03-2023 8:57am

Worth remembering the training population in ireland must be 85 per cent plus white and blue, at any time... Is that a fair estimate? And a majority probably not competing more than casually if at all. Then those that compete are most likely to be doing an IBJJF rule set.

If someone is looking to compete sub only and they know that early on then sure, agree that they need to think differently but nothing to prevent independent learning. It's going to be a minority of students.

Although tbh I still didn't feel disadvantaged by learning those techniques at purple. I still had a leglock game prior using straight footlocks. And I did learn knee bars and toe holds as a late blue in smaller group settings the odd time.

conor678 · 01-03-2023 10:55am

My thoughts on the process is I only go straight ankle locks or knee bars on brown belt lads that I have a good relationship with. This is coming from a purple belt, so we have an unspoken agreement where we're happy to test our leg lock game on each other.

I also have a mate I've trained with for ages and he's matted out his garage so we do nogi long rolls there before work (45 minute rounds) and we do heel hooks on each other but we've got years of trust with each other's game and that respect.

If I rock into a new gym then I don't do leg locks. If it's the place Were people do it then I'll knee bar or ankle lock but not heel hooks. I worry that too many people might think they're Gordon Ryan and go in full whack on me so I avoid it or tap early to save the risk. Especially if I feel they lack technique in other aspects of their game which flags up a bit of risk for me if they're foot locking me.

My 2 cents anyway

The White Feather · 05-03-2023 4:03pm

I got awarded my Blue belt recently. Feel a bit of a fraud as I don't feel I deserve it but maybe I am doing some things right at least. I have imposter syndrome definitely !!!

Mellor · 07-03-2023 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300300#Comment_120300300

I'd agree that most are white/blue, and most people are probably not competing. But that just further makes the question the logic being enforcing the IBJJF rule set on people, when most of them are not going to compete, they just want to learn jiu jitsu. Withholding advanced techniques is an oldschool and very flawed mentality.

If you learned those techniques at blue and purple you weren't sticking to the rules. They are banned until brown, and there are gyms where stick to that religiously. Being a 4 stripe purple, and not knowing any knee bar or toehold defense or attack silly imo. Just my view.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120300577#Comment_120300577

Whatever about knee bars and heel hooks. Foot/ankle locks are legal in for day 1 white belts in comp, even for kids. Should expect them in every gym imo. Not something that should be agreed.

conor678 · 08-03-2023 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327404#Comment_120327404

Fair shout. Maybe I was just being over timid and had the thought process that all leg locks, including ankle/ foot locks, are bad. However I'll keep that in mind and be more open to foot and ankle locks in gyms in the future.

Mellor · 08-03-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328522#Comment_120328522

It’s totally up to you to go for them or not. But I always assume others will go for them if my get exposed.

Outside if beginners, people tend to protect their arms much better than their legs.

Black Sheep · 09-03-2023 12:59pm

In general I agree that people should 'expect' appropriate attacks when they're rolling. Footlocks are on the table from the start, and that's why as I said above I do support white belts learning some basic leg entanglements, basic footlocks and defence against same. But I'll always adapt to what's in front of me.

In our gym we do use a lot of leg attacks at the higher belts and actually among my peer group leg attacks are accounting for the majority of finishes at the moment.

In etiquette terms if it's in our gym and it's someone I don't know - if they're a guest - I will go for whatever attacks are appropriate for their belt, including legs. If they're from somewhere else and it's clear they don't know any leg attacks (and have no leg defence as a result) I will just do something else completely, I'd rather have a constructive roll with at least some back and forth.

I'd say what's more important from an etiquette POV in general is the overall intent. If they're clearly doing a roll at 70% and not going crazy then neither am I. I won't suddenly increase the tempo usually, I won't dial the strength up to 90% to get a finish and so on. I think that's more significant than whether knee bars or toe holds are on the table. If they come in going 90%+ then I do an informal risk assessment in my head and will either match it or defend, defend, defend. Either way I try not to take it personally.

If I'm in a strange gym then I definitely would be inclined to look around and see what's going on. I was at an open mat recently (all grades) and the gym owner wanted no leg attacks. Agree or disagree with it, it's their house.

I have had the experience of rolling with people from gyms who come from places where they do almost no leg attacks and yes, it does leave a hole, there's no doubt. But then again, if you want to be competitive there are lots of things that can disadvantage you. Not have adequate mat time overall, not lifting - probably as significant as not knowing leg attacks (Certainly the lifting element, IMO, whatever about mat time).

Mellor · 09-03-2023 10:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334376#Comment_120334376

I agree with all of that. I usually drop into gyms with a strong Nogi side of aware they do leglocks in advance. If I’m dropping in, I’m assume they are out unless told or shown otherwise.

Back in Ireland son. Will be looking for more drop in gyms

conor678 · 12-03-2023 12:34pm

Went to Polaris 23 last night in the UK. Great event. Such a chilledout vibe with lots of cool people and quality fights on show. Chris weidman lost against Owen Livsey on points, he's a big judo head so some great wrestling on show.

Can recommend it enough if it's ever in Ireland and great for kids too.

nozzferrahhtoo · 21-03-2023 3:43pm

I joined BJJ mostly because I wanted to get my daugther into it, and doing it myself along side her was part of the methodology for this. This has worked really well and she enjoys it though neither of us come remotely close to excelling at it yet.

My/our training has been on and off but happy every time it is on. Sickness, traveling for work, and holidays have been the main things preventing me training. Only on a small hand full of occasions has low motivation stopped me going. Which is good.

Despite the fact I must be a BJJ member for about a year now... all the factors above mean I have not done all that much training over that year and I have probably forgotten or not cemented many of the techniques I would have seen in that time. Meaning I have a very limited repotoire on the mat. My two main strengths so far appear to be that I am very good at escaping mount (mostly thanks to one John Danaher video) and people of many belt levels find it almost impossible to break my full guard for some reason. I get a lot of comments on just how tight and good it is.

Anyway, there is a national competition from the international "AJP Tour" coming up in April really close to where I live here in Germany. I see they do national competitions in a few countries under that name? The trainer put it up in our clubs Whatsapp and I very quickly made two decisions:

1) I was going to take my daugther to go watch the event, especially the kids and white belt events.

2) I was going to commit to entering it next year giving me just over 12 months to get fitter (need to lose about 5 kilo), stronger, improve my endurance (been running half marathons, I would like to get that up to marathons if I can) and improve my BJJ. I work really well to dead lines rather than just free training / living. So knowing I have a game in 12 months would be a real motivator for me. Which is actually the first thing Chewjitsu says in this video here: youtube.com/watch?v=qrItcRRlBg0

I have acquired a Black Belt Teacher who gives me 70-90 minutes of 1 on 1 training every sunday now (for 50 euro, which seems reasonable?) and I have my normal club group training which is an hour on Monday, Friday, Saturday with an optional second hour Fridays/Saturdays which I will now avail of if I am going "full time" with this.

What I would like to do is break down moves (take downs, submissions, escapes, other) that I should really focus on for the 12 months. Not exclusively, but predominantly. Which is why I am making this post. Maybe 3-5 things in each of the most common positions I should try to get down "perfect" for my first White Belt competition next April. So maybe:

1) A particular handful of take downs from standing. And pulling guard from standing.

2) Attacks or good moves from each dominant position (Top Mount, Full guard, Back control, Side control, North South.....?)

3) Escapes, attacks or good moves when held IN each of those positions (Top Mount, Full guard, Back control, Side control, North South.....?)

4) "Other"?

So pros and other competition veterans what would you recommend focusing on? I will of course ask the same of my 1:1 teacher and my club teacher when I can. But be interesting for some feedback here too which might also inspire some other newcombers to focus on their game and get into it? :) In the end I would like to make another post here detailing, hopefully with some online resources I can also link to, what I end up with which might be a nice "starter guide" for others.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

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