Went to Polaris 23 last night in the UK. Great event. Such a chilledout vibe with lots of cool people and quality fights on show. Chris weidman lost against Owen Livsey on points, he's a big judo head so some great wrestling on show.
Can recommend it enough if it's ever in Ireland and great for kids too.
I agree with all of that. I usually drop into gyms with a strong Nogi side of aware they do leglocks in advance. If I’m dropping in, I’m assume they are out unless told or shown otherwise.
Back in Ireland son. Will be looking for more drop in gyms
In general I agree that people should 'expect' appropriate attacks when they're rolling. Footlocks are on the table from the start, and that's why as I said above I do support white belts learning some basic leg entanglements, basic footlocks and defence against same. But I'll always adapt to what's in front of me.
In our gym we do use a lot of leg attacks at the higher belts and actually among my peer group leg attacks are accounting for the majority of finishes at the moment.
In etiquette terms if it's in our gym and it's someone I don't know - if they're a guest - I will go for whatever attacks are appropriate for their belt, including legs. If they're from somewhere else and it's clear they don't know any leg attacks (and have no leg defence as a result) I will just do something else completely, I'd rather have a constructive roll with at least some back and forth.
I'd say what's more important from an etiquette POV in general is the overall intent. If they're clearly doing a roll at 70% and not going crazy then neither am I. I won't suddenly increase the tempo usually, I won't dial the strength up to 90% to get a finish and so on. I think that's more significant than whether knee bars or toe holds are on the table. If they come in going 90%+ then I do an informal risk assessment in my head and will either match it or defend, defend, defend. Either way I try not to take it personally.
If I'm in a strange gym then I definitely would be inclined to look around and see what's going on. I was at an open mat recently (all grades) and the gym owner wanted no leg attacks. Agree or disagree with it, it's their house.
I have had the experience of rolling with people from gyms who come from places where they do almost no leg attacks and yes, it does leave a hole, there's no doubt. But then again, if you want to be competitive there are lots of things that can disadvantage you. Not have adequate mat time overall, not lifting - probably as significant as not knowing leg attacks (Certainly the lifting element, IMO, whatever about mat time).
It’s totally up to you to go for them or not. But I always assume others will go for them if my get exposed.
Outside if beginners, people tend to protect their arms much better than their legs.
Fair shout. Maybe I was just being over timid and had the thought process that all leg locks, including ankle/ foot locks, are bad. However I'll keep that in mind and be more open to foot and ankle locks in gyms in the future.
I'd agree that most are white/blue, and most people are probably not competing. But that just further makes the question the logic being enforcing the IBJJF rule set on people, when most of them are not going to compete, they just want to learn jiu jitsu. Withholding advanced techniques is an oldschool and very flawed mentality.
If you learned those techniques at blue and purple you weren't sticking to the rules. They are banned until brown, and there are gyms where stick to that religiously. Being a 4 stripe purple, and not knowing any knee bar or toehold defense or attack silly imo. Just my view.
Whatever about knee bars and heel hooks. Foot/ankle locks are legal in for day 1 white belts in comp, even for kids. Should expect them in every gym imo. Not something that should be agreed.
I got awarded my Blue belt recently. Feel a bit of a fraud as I don't feel I deserve it but maybe I am doing some things right at least. I have imposter syndrome definitely !!!
My thoughts on the process is I only go straight ankle locks or knee bars on brown belt lads that I have a good relationship with. This is coming from a purple belt, so we have an unspoken agreement where we're happy to test our leg lock game on each other.
I also have a mate I've trained with for ages and he's matted out his garage so we do nogi long rolls there before work (45 minute rounds) and we do heel hooks on each other but we've got years of trust with each other's game and that respect.
If I rock into a new gym then I don't do leg locks. If it's the place Were people do it then I'll knee bar or ankle lock but not heel hooks. I worry that too many people might think they're Gordon Ryan and go in full whack on me so I avoid it or tap early to save the risk. Especially if I feel they lack technique in other aspects of their game which flags up a bit of risk for me if they're foot locking me.
My 2 cents anyway
Worth remembering the training population in ireland must be 85 per cent plus white and blue, at any time... Is that a fair estimate? And a majority probably not competing more than casually if at all. Then those that compete are most likely to be doing an IBJJF rule set.
If someone is looking to compete sub only and they know that early on then sure, agree that they need to think differently but nothing to prevent independent learning. It's going to be a minority of students.
Although tbh I still didn't feel disadvantaged by learning those techniques at purple. I still had a leglock game prior using straight footlocks. And I did learn knee bars and toe holds as a late blue in smaller group settings the odd time.
I people are focused on competing only under the IBJJF ruleset it makes sense to bias techniques that are allowed in comp. But I suspect most serious competitors to prepare at least a level ahead.
A purple belt who can’t attack and defend kneebars and toe holds has a massive whole in their game in my view.
Well, I *was* a purple who played straight footlocks and did make that transition... Toe holds became my number one sub when rolling as a brown versus other browns and black belts. Still is now at black.
I did a few sessions with browns and blacks as a purple and went through what was needed for the finish and if you understand that then you understand a lot of the defence. I don't remember it being that onerous, but I was interested I guess.
I still think the straight footlocks set me up to learn better.
I think your point would be very valid in a full time nogi gym like a 10th planet place, maybe even in a place that is 50/50. But in a gym where most people are in a kimono for most classes and many looking to compete it would be, IMO, odd to spend much if any time at lower belts on techniques that are generally banned in comps for them. Heel hooks completely out in the gi anyway.
For me the issue with adhering directly to the IBJJF rules. Is that people are really ill prepared for moving up the next level.
Imagine a purple belt moving up to brown, having never rolled with kneebars or toeholds. I’d assume they’d be caught with those subs a lot.
Would be an advantage for other gyms knowing opponents had these holes in their game.
Holohan Martial Arts has morning classes as well AFAIK
East Coast Jiu Jitsu has a 6.15am class on their timetable.
Hoping someone can help me out here.
Looking at starting BJJ but my schedule will only allow me to do morning classes. 6am preferably. Anyone know of any BJJ places that do 6am classes in South Dublin?
I'll answer my own question -
We always start from standing, to facilitate takedowns.
IBJJF adult leglock rules are what we use to regulate leglocks. So for white belts its straight footlocks only in the kimono.
I don't feel strongly about the leglock issue. Training in the kimono, I don't believe the risk of injury associated with lower belts training with toe holds and knee bars is substantially any greater than with having them perform kimuras. If there is appropriate coaching I wouldn't be overly concerned if they were introduced early. But in practical terms I also think if you have people competing at white belt I don't think it's that bad an idea to have them mainly using the IBJJF rule set.
I would also argue that anyone who does want to play leglocks can benefit from beginning with understanding straight footlock entries / set-ups / finishes and there's a carryover to broadening out then as you go up the belts. There is a universal applicability to learning positions like single leg x, modified single leg x, sweeping from there, various leg entanglements and how to use or escape them. My introduction to leglocks was straight footlock systems from Gustavo Gasperin and Oli Geddes.
Very limited nogi training in our gym so heelhooks are not really a factor.
On the starting from standing issue, I probably have evolved a clear preference for starting from standing. I accept that for space reasons it's not always possible, but if the space is there then I think it's important. If anything there is probably a greater injury risk (than from leglocks) in allowing a relatively high number of takedowns and scrambles to occur - which they will - but I think it has to be accepted.
Even if you are a guard puller it is probably better to learn how to properly pull guard against a standing opponent.
No rules on how we start and leg locks are ok for everyone
Typically we begin one seated and one passing. Slap, bump and one person sits or stands. Only exception to the is the advanced nogi class, starts standing as it’s very wrestling dominant.
Leglicks are all always on the table. White belts learn leglocks - and need to know 4 basic types to get a blue belt.
Two questions...
Does your club start from standing when rolling, or typically does one person pass on their feet and the other person begins sitting / playing guard?
Does anyone's club have a blanket ban on leglocks at open mats, no matter the belt of the people rolling?
Genuinely curious. I was in a club I haven't been at in a long time, and I was a small bit surprised they were going with the above. I'm not saying it's wrong (it can be argued both ways), but just curious what is more common these days.
Dublin bjj isn't that big, so I (and probably a few others) have figured out what gym you are in, which gym is the old gym, and who the coaches involved are.
I'm not stepping in as a Mod on this - but I'd ask you to leave it there in terms of saying any more on this. I don't want to see anyone being criticised if they're not on here to give their side / defend themselves.
I appreciate a gym split is a big thing but is it good to air it out here?
Edited
That’s so juvenile. Blacklisting people simply because they train somewhere else. Sadly common in bjj. People dress it as loyalty, but it’s rooted in money imo.
Gyms are businesses. We’re the customer. I’ve no time, for gyms that act like that.
Good luck man. First in a year is a big step! Most people get to 6-7 months and decide too much time has passed. Congrats on getting back on the horse!
I'll PM you the name of the gym.......
It was a pretty straight forward break up in the end but the guy who ran the old gym (now the head coach) decided not to see it that way and has exhibited hard feelings. It's a shame because the lads from that gym and our lads are still friends but the coach is being a bit weird with it. Unnecessarily so!
For example, I tried to go to one of the Open Mats soon after, just to "rip the plaster off" so to speak. No point letting things fester you know?
I text the coach from the old gym and told him I was dropping in. I was effectively told I wasn't welcome. So not so much an Open Mat........ just a Mat 😂
First class on the year in 20 mins, hope to average 2 classes per week going forward but as people mentioned above its hard with work and kids etc
It’s not an uncommon setup where the financial owner, is not the head coach. But I think it only works where the gym is pretty big with multiple coaches. Relying on one coach is a strange dynamic.
What’s the new gym called?
BJJ taking a bit of a backseat for me at the moment, I am just finding that a baby in the house and being busy at work, it has slid to the bottom of my priorities list.
But it's always in the back of my mind, there's a kimono packed in a rucksack in my office at work waiting to go if I got a long enough window to take a break...
We had a bit of gym drama and the gym split. The coach wasn't actually running the gym, it was a strange setup whereby the gym as a business was being run by one of the blue belts and he hired the black belt coach. They had a falling out and the coach set up his own gym. Most of us followed him.
The opening of the new gym coincided with a load of stuff piling on at home and at work so I went from previously training four days a wek to once or twice a week. Stick on top that that getting sick in late Nov followed by Covid as soon as I was well.
I've set myself the goal of 150 sessions in 2023. Not a lot, but I break it down into segments. I need to do 25 by the end of Feb and that kicks my arse a bit when i'm feeling lazy or whatever. Also have a set number of rounds I need to do and have that broken down into rounds with coloured belts too to have myself preying on new Janury white belts 😂
This is very interesting coming up on my feed now.
I tried Ju Jitsu once. Didn’t realise in the class that you participate. On the one on ones I did what I always do and over did it and had some lad swinging off my kneck at one stage as I tried to shake him off me. In every one on one id try my hardest and most definitely put strain on my kneck.
I couldn’t look left or right driving home without real pain and limitation. Just presumed it would get better with rest but my kneck hasn’t been really bad but not right since.
Now I wouldn’t of thought of my kneck as an issue but I’ve been having numbness and tingling a lot that’s been getting worse. I went to an osteopath in November and ever since it’s gotten worse. At the time I went to them about headaches but they were doing all sorts of crunching on my kneck and back.
Also needle physio and today it’s been really sore. Might ask physio about it.
Now whenever my body warms , I do excercise or I get any sort of emotional I get pain and irritation waves in different parts of my body (which usually indicates maybe nerve damage or something like that).
I was thinking maybe it was long covid related in some way but the kneck injury thing is probably worth exploring. (
Been quiet in here lately. Is everyone still training.
I've been slack for all of last. Injury, covid, and work all getting in the way. Hoping to hit 2023 with a decent flow. Going to target 10 sessions a month, not a big ask, but will fall way short in Jan. 1 in the bag so far. (holidays, then I was sick)
