Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889114#Comment_120889114

Karate is also an Olympic sport with a World Federation. As are boxing and wrestling. Being in the olympics helps, but its not a requirement. E.g. if wrestling was removed, it would not cease to be recognised. The Requirement is the one I quoted above, in that it is the national representative for the International Federation.

Currently, if you counted students, though, turnover and gauged the number of full time schools, it's hard to see how BJJ isn't on a better footing than anything except possibly kids TKD or karate, and even there it would only be numbers, and would be interesting to see trends.

If terms of size, I'd say that that it is possibly biggest now. But the difference is irrelevant.

The lack of recognition by IMAC seems odd though, does it come down to the early clashes over connections to MMA? A real shame if so.

IMAC seems to have recognised a lot of smaller martial arts without difficulty, many with no single international governing body either.

I would say that it's possibly the the connection to MMA, or if not the historic connection at the very least the people in a position to be representative for BJJ are the same people at loggerheads with IMAC.

IMAC seems to be the sensible choice, but I'd also question what they would require from BJJ. I'd need to understand what IMAC actually do. I don't know if they have anything to offer BJJ

There is no International Federation for BJJ, so I can't see how a National govern body can exist in any sort of functional way. If would just turn into a series of disagreements.

Black Sheep

Karate is an olympic sport? Wow, how did I miss that.

If you look at some of the bodies recognised by IMAC, not all of them have single international governing bodies either, it must be said. Some are quite idiosyncratic, and would make BJJ relatively straightforward.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895360#Comment_120895360

Karate was added in 2020. The highlight being a guy getting DQ's in the final for kicking too hard. Opponent was dropped and given a gold medal. Not sure if it was a trial basis, or if it was simply for Tokyo. But it's not included in Paris. Might be one of the sports on a rotation list.

You are mixing up two different things regarding the International body. An international body is required to be recognised by Sport Ireland not to join IMAC. So Judo has the IJF, and all the other martial arts directly represented have a body. That, imo is a roadblock to BJJ being directly recognised with the IBJJF in its current form.

IMAC are themselves recognised as an umbrella organisation for other sports, they could add BJJ to the martial arts pretty easily. They recognise Sambo. I just don't think that would happen as BJJ historically lacks any cohesive organisation. The most likely suborganisation to be recognised would be the IBJJFs representative in Ireland. But why would try go under Mickey Mouse IMAC when they are in with the much bigger and organised IBJJF.

Black Sheep

The issue is that some public sector entities still have an expectation of seeing a link to Sport Ireland (and thus IMAC becomes relevant).

It's a non issue if your BJJ is purely a commercial / private sector activity.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897467#Comment_120897467

Ca you give an example? Do you mean like being employed in Dept of Sport and getting a grant towards sports fees? No idea if that exists, just trying to think of a connection between public sector and sporting interests.

Mellor

Speaking on BJJ, I'm talking the classes while my coach was at the UFC london. Another week left. Last night reception tells me a guy has dropped in to train and speak to my coach. Yeah fine, tell him to jump in.

Guy was a Rickson Gracie blackbelt. Let me teach my throw and kneebars. The show us some awesome versions. 😂

Black Sheep

In the public sector some larger organisations collect money from staff - on a voluntary basis - to fund sports and recreation clubs for them. I'm encountering some oldish rules that have it that there should be an NGB / sport ireland connection for sports clubs. It's not the end of the world but frustrating that you could be teaching "ninjutsu" and get the nod.

Mellor

@RoboRat (or anyone) is Wolfhound fightwear still going? My wolfhound Gi is on it's last legs

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928447#Comment_120928447

Yep, we are still going :-)

Had a hard time with the pandemic and it set us back a few years, but we are rebuilding. Hope to start increasing the range again and getting more stock.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929641#Comment_120929641

Ok good stuff. My Púca has been my main gi for the last years. It’s starting to show. Rubber exposed. Knee ripped a bit.

Thinking maybe a dark one this time. As brother gave me a white gi that he doesn’t use…but also because I ripped the ass out my black gi.

conor678

Glad to hear Wolfhound is rebuilding. Got the navy gi and it's great quality. Also love the retro Ireland rash guard. Again great quality and looks great.

Got few gi s on the go but one is starting to wear out so will look to get another one soon.

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931796#Comment_120931796

Have these exact ones. The Navy one is my favourite Gi. Absolutely smashing and great quality!

And a few lads int he gym are always bemoaning the fact that they can't get their hands on the retro Ireland rashguard! I've had a few threats from upper belts that they will fight me for it :D

Black Sheep

I had a black Wolfhound gi several years ago that had one of the coolest sublimated linings I've ever seen. I forget exactly what it was, but I think it was celtic sprituality in theme, there was a lot of orange and red.

Fully sublimated lined gis were popular as a premium option back then, I had another one from Scramble that was a crossover with The Warriors ... But the trend these days seems to be back towards more minimalist / lightweight gis. I guess without fail everyone is wearing a rashguard under their kimono anyway these days.

RoboRat

Thanks for the positive feedback... It's great to see the love for the gear :-)

I know we need to get the rashies back but it's a rebuilding task. I should also mention that after covid, we had some capital and knew we needed more stock. We put a large order in with a supplier whom we had been dealing with for around 8 years. Anyhow, he disappeared and we never received our stock which was worth around €10k. That was almost the end, thankfully a couple of clubs put in orders for custom gear and that allowed us to start rebuilding. It's been a rotten few years as we were really starting to take off, but sh1t happens and we just got to roll with it (pun intended!).

Hopefully this time next year, we will be in a much better place. I have a load of new designs that I want to get done - I used my time during covid creatively :-)

Black Sheep

That sucks re that supplier. Considering the countries usually involved, I can see how there would be zero chance of any effective comeback.

Mellor

Lately, my rolls with my coach have been noticeably “harder” - as in more intense. Like i’ve unlocked the next level of resistance. I almost causght him in a darce this week, he won’t say it, but I know he really had to dig to get out. He just smiled and smashed me for the next 5 minutes. Literally submission, no reset, move, submission. Was close to puking.

Levels to the game.

MrStuffins

I've had an uneven year on the mats. Despite all the intention at the start of 2023, things changed in work and I ended up being extremely inconsistent.

But things have swung back the other way the last couple of months so I've managed to really get some good momentum going. Only issue is that my time being inactive has been time the other lads have been active and the rolls are much tougher these days 😂

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383040#Comment_121383040

I've had similar experiences over the years.

When I was a brown belt I was catching my coach here and there and I thought that was indicative of progress. It was, but more limited progress than I thought. There came the day when we suddenly started doing 8 minute rounds instead of 5 minute rounds, and he had learned all my subs, and then I didn't submit him for probably six months after that, too busy dying.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395570#Comment_121395570

“When I was a brown belt…”

Have you been promoted to black and failed to mentioned it? Congrats if so

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397933#Comment_121397933

Yes, I got it the end of last year. Thanks for the congratulations.

I am 100% an example of someone who has just kept going to BJJ and punching the clock, I have never demonstrated anything remotely resembling talent or natural aptitude for it.

Happy to be a complete hobbyist, really, I feel quite 'free' to just explore the sport however I want.

I admire people like Chris Haueter who just show the jiu jitsu they want to show, even if it's "out of fashion" or things that we just don't tend to use these days. I saw him show some closed guard the other week, and he did two techniques that he obviously considered basic staples, and I'd never seen one of them before.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401335#Comment_121401335

Link? I'm a big fan of his stuff.

Black Sheep

I can't look at YouTube on this computer, but if you google him and closed guard it's a video where he's talking about it as a position, and he shows, at one point, a kind of duck-under yoke to get to the back. But he does it by really extending them out, it's hard to explain without seeing the clip. It's just very visually unlike current sports BJJ.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404186#Comment_121404186

Has to be this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwH26muAA-s

Black Sheep

Yep.

conor678

General question for the group.

Been training BJJ for a long time and thankfully have avoided any major injuries. I am experienced enough of when to tap and which way to turn or spin etc in order to avoid potential damage and major hyper extension. Also my training partners are experienced and advanced enough to know the game.

Saying that however accidents do happen. During a nogi open mat my partner, who is very experienced, went for a toe hold while clamped on my knee with his legs. I spun to defend and turn but heard a slight click in my knee. Was able to finish the rounds but as I cooled down and over the next few days it's been sore and swollen. Have rolled since but the knee isn't 100%.

I am not naive enough to realise I've probably twinged something in my knee, however I am happy to work round injuries as best possible. Previously I've done very exercises on week body parts (shoulder and hips) so am happy to put in the work to strengthen up weak or damaged areas, once the areas have recovered enough to allow me to do so.

My question to the group is does anyone do any particular knee strengthening exercises or routines to help strengthen the knee in all directions? I am open to all suggestions from heel raised squates to bands etc.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968293#Comment_121968293

Exercises like squats, slant board, bands will strengthen the muscles around the knee. This can help build strong knees. But if you've injured your knee, and it sounds like you have tbh, the issue is really unlikely to be muscular. That might be something to do down the line, but I'd be careful know without professional advice.

I've had a few knee injures, at different times (none from a submission). What you describe aligns to the more minor ones. Ligament tear, maybe a minor meniscus tear. An exam may help, but only an MRI will confirm 100%. Where on the knee is the pain and swelling?

Black Sheep

I agree with Mellor. The only way to know 'for sure' is via an exam and MRI and the caveat on the forum here is always that we are not doctors or physiotherapists, and professional help has no substitute.

With that being said, if you speak to people in BJJ who have had knee injuries - and it's all of us, training long enough - what you're describing sounds like a lower order injury - maybe a grade 1 tear.

If it was a grade 2 or 3 you wouldn't have been able to roll again this soon, and you probably would be experiencing more instability, inflammation and loss of ROM and function. You'd know, basically.

It will resolve, but you're right that if you make an effort to rehab it then you're going to recover full ROM, be back to training and also reduce the chance of a recurrence.

It's worth mentioning that treating an injury like this conservatively - i.e via rehab, no surgical intervention - would be on the cards even if you had a grade 2.

In terms of what to do, if you don't get professional help (Whether in person or via some of the emerging BJJ-focused online physios that work with people online) then you're really going to have a bit of trial and error. Elite FTS has a lot of information about knee rehab and even post-surgical knee rehab that might make interesting reading.

When I rehabbed a grade 2 MCL tear I began with unloaded bilateral squat variations and had to use an elevated box, because I had to gradually recover my ROM. I did a very high volume of prowler pushing, unilateral work like single leg box squats, split squats, terminal knee extensions, single leg RDLs and eventually built up to skater squats. Then I reintroduced loaded bilateral squats. There was a sense of instability in my knee that dissipated over time, and I don't think about it now.

The most important thing was actually changing mat behaviour. I do put hooks in and will use de la riva again now, having more confidence in my knee, but there was a post-recovery period where I just did not place it in an extended position like that.

When it comes to defending leg attacks, you will have to use your own judgement about when is too early to tap, and what your priorities are.

conor678

THank you both for the reply. I am booked in for an MRI so that should hopefully shed some light on the severity.

I really also appreciate the feedback on different exercises. I have a slant board at home and once I get the all clear post scan then will look to do some very light unilateral body weight stuff to build full ROM then look to add weight from there.

Your both right about the wear and tear that happens from lots of rolling and how you need to adapt behaviour and techniques with age and experience. Haven't tried DLR hooks yet but will be very mindful when I start doing so again.

Thank you again