Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

CWF

Anyone doing ADCC in Tallaght this September? What way does it work, I'm a beginner and wondering how many fights do you get? Is it knock out or do you get a few? Just want to make it worth my while going down and paying the €80. I could ask my coach but want to get your opinions too. Thanks

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549377#Comment_122549377

It's a round robin format, that means you will fight most people in your division, typically with a max of 4 fights.

The winner of the group will be whoever has the most wins.

How many fights you get depends on your division and the ruleset.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423158#Comment_122423158

On the topic of SBG, how much does membership cost?

The membership fees don't seem to be available online though anecdotally I've heard that it's >€150/month.

Hard to understand where the value is to be honest, specifically for BJJ training.

taxAHcruel

Nice interview almost entirely about Jiu Jitsu with Miha Perhavec on the Jocko Podcast last week if anyone is interested in that kind of thing. Including a short discussion about his time living and studying and training in Ireland - and a shout out to the lads at East Coast.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122565863#Comment_122565863

I’ve no idea. Its not common for places to publish their membership costs online.

Black Sheep

When larger gyms stopped putting their pricing on their websites, I didn't think it would catch on. Seemed like a very American way of doing business, funnelling you into having to speak to a sales advisor. Timetables aren't always up as well, for the same reason. I still don't like it, personally.

But it's 15+ years later, and as Mellor says, seems like the norm for the big boys, so I guess it works.

I know a CrossFit gym that does it, and one of the owners told me that probably less than half of people who enquire via email, let alone just look at a membership page online, actually sign up. But he said when he was able to actually talk to them and pitch properly, he was able to sell more than half of them on joining. If you crunch the numbers on what that's worth, it's worth a lot.

With regard to SBGI, anecdotally, I believe you're not far off the mark, but they've got a number of membership options.

Great gym, some OGs of Irish BJJ coaching there and still going strong.

There are cheaper places to train BJJ, that's true. Everyone's budget and specific needs/wants is gonna dictate where they go.

Danye

Hi all,

I understand this is somewhat of an open question, but training twice a week only, in a respected gym, what would your progression be?

Hypothetically, how long would it take to achieve a black belt training twice a week? 10+ years? Or would you need to be on the mats far more than twice a week?

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598145#Comment_122598145

While some people will be in the gym 7 days a week, training twice a day and mainlining Acai like something out of Trainspotting, i'd say that MOST practitioners are training twice a week. Most lads in my gym are men in their 30s with jobs, kids and responsibilites that only allow them limited windows to train. If you're turning up twice a week, giving 100%, sparring regularly and working hard, you can get your blue belt in two years i'd say. Obivously there are hundreds of variables, but on average if you're a hobbyist and do your thing regularly, you can progress slowly and steadily.

Now, i'm only a blue belt so I can't exactly tell you much about getting a black belt, but it will come eventually if you keep going. Might take 10+ years but it'll happen if you're consistent. I mean, I think my BJJ is trash but just sticking at it is helping my progress. I'm not near purple belt yet but I know if I keep going i'll get there. It's just a matter of hanging in there.

Danye

Cheers for the response 👍🏻

Like you mentioned in your reply, I am in my 30’s with a young family, work and other bits and pieces going on, so twice a week is all I could get on the mat. It’s good to hear others are in the same position and still progressing. I also agree, there is no rush 👍🏻

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598833#Comment_122598833

I'm a BJJ black belt.

Whether training twice a week or training four times a week, it'll likely still take 10+ years to get a black belt in a decent gym.

I'd urge you to enjoy your training while you are willing and able to train. BJJ is a wonderful sport and has given me back ten times more than I've ever put into it (I've given a lot to it).

I think you almost have to change your perspective as you get older, your belts change and your jiu jitsu changes. I certainly think differently now than I did at various points through my progression from white to black.

One thing I'm sure of, is that the effort it took to get from white to black was worth it, hands down. The reality is that nobody really cares what belt I wear. All you ever really have is your own skill level, regardless of what belt you're wearing.

Our gym has over a dozen black belts and I enjoy training with them regularly. I also enjoy training with all the other belts, as I've something to learn from them as much as they have to learn from me.

It's a great sport. If you're determined and lucky enough to be able to stick it through to a black belt, then perhaps you'll ultimately see that's the black belt is very much a false summit, and the part after you get it is a big open expanse that you never really get to see all of.

All that aside, if you get a black belt, you'll have a great skillset and you'll be one of only a handful of people, relative to the national population, who have that accolade. That's pretty cool in itself.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549377#Comment_122549377

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122565847#Comment_122565847

Missed these posts above. I would have assume that ADCC is single elimination not round robin. Has it passed?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598145#Comment_122598145

Training twice a week, you will still progress. But the rate of progress will be proportional to time. A black belt will take a very long time, much longer than 10 years imo.

Belts for the most part are pretty consistent in terms of time. It's the individuals that put in variable amounts of time. If the sessions are 90 mins. That's 3 hours a week and 150 a year at most. That's probably going to be 2-3 years to blue belt.
A black belt is said to be at least 2500 hours. So you're looking at 16-20 years of 2 days a week.

The guys who do it in 10 are training 300 hours a year. The guys who do it in a few years are training 1000s.

Black Sheep

I think it's fair to say that a black belt is a spectrum these days.

I believe it's still a marker of quality, in the UK and Ireland, but the reality is that there is probably a wider range of ability on show than in the past. At the upper end, we have full-time BJJ athletes who are far more sophisticated than in years past. At the lower end, I think there are a few factors in play that mean there are black belts who are very much club / hobbyist / non-competitive. Not a hard and fast distinction, and it goes without saying some people are in between or have been both. At any rate, it appears that as BJJ gets bigger, more clubs are more willing to make accommodations for people as regards grading. You hope that it's not a case where people get belts purely because of age, or because they've been helping to keep the lights on in a business for 10 years plus, but human nature is also human nature, so it can be a factor.

Some people would rather it was more clear cut or that standards were higher, but above I'm trying to describe what I think the reality is, rather than what it should be.

Training twice a week on a continuous basis will probably get someone to black belt, in the end, and if they won a few competitions along the way that would probably assist with the process. I'd be lifting or conditioning on the other days as well.

Iguarantee

I’d agree with your sentiment about the spectrum of black belts.

I’ve met and trained with world class black belts. They’re very different to me, not just in the ability but in their age, training, goals etc.

I’m happy with where im at on the spectrum, or more appropriately with where I am in the food chain

I don’t want to give more to BJJ than I already do, but I’m also honest with myself about my ability and my goals.

Training twice a week is great, but you’ll 100% see people you started with getting promoted years ahead of you, and people who started after you reaching higher belts than you’re at.

Belts are an important mark of recognition, but I would really stress that you should work to be the best you can be based on the time you have available to you to spend on BJJ. Nobody cares what belt you are except you, truly.

I’d rather roll like a black belt than to just wear a black belt. Having both is nice too though.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610278#Comment_122610278

I think the perception that you should be better than those who start after you largely only exists at whitebelt. Once you get to colours belts you realise how different the progression is.

Black Sheep

I must admit I still wonder sometimes if we even need belts in BJJ.

I've heard all the arguments in their favour over the years, and none of them really stack up for me. I don't think kids need belts for motivation, let alone adults. There are no belts in rugby or GAA, and kids are still super motivated to train and compete.

If you go to a nogi seminar or a nogi open mat in a foreign country, and it's not somewhere where they're wearing those weird ankle band things, then you have no idea what grade anyone is.

At the end, if you've trained and rolled with them, you'll know who can teach, who is a good athlete, who has good technique and so on.

And no bandwidth in anyone's head taken up with belts.

Danye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630643#Comment_122630643

There is standards in Rugby and GAA which is what a belt colour signifies - what standard you’re at, generally speaking.

Black Sheep

It's not as hierarchical and delineated at all in those sports. Particularly for kids and people playing at a casual adult participation level.

There is no reason we couldn't still have professional grappling, and admission and making a living off it would be performance based, and we would arrange contests based on experience level or previous comp track record.

No belts in any freestyle, greco, catch wrestling.. None in muay thai, boxing, MMA... None are the worse for it in terms of width of participation, no one is confused about who is who.

Iguarantee

in fairness, the experience level style of competition really draws some sandbagging people that a belted competition doesn’t.

Prime example is the latest ADCC competition in Ireland where a judo black belt competed as “intermediate”. This wasn’t someone who walked off the judo mat into a BJJ comp either.

I don’t give a toss if I fight someone who’s way better than me, but surely that sandbagged is just fooling themself because they’re not fighting people who provide an objective skill challenge.

Black Sheep

If they're training more than 4 years, yes, wrong category.

Although, some judo black belts who dont cross train BJJ, or wrestle...I wouldn't think they'd be out of place in intermediate tbh. But they probably wouldnt enter an ADCC comp in that case.

There'll always be sandbaggers but they usually only get away with that once.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637997#Comment_122637997

I wouldn't assume that every random judo black belt belongs in the advanced/professinoal category. Many would struggle agaisnt good intermediates imo.

The guy above, I assume he smoked everyone and won.

nozzferrahhtoo

There is a Judo Black Belt training as a BJJ White Belt in my club at present. Just yesterday he did a Judo seminar in our club on the request from the main BJJ teacher and it was quite the success and appreciated by all BJJ belt levels. He has been requested to do a few more. The next one will be focused on "foot sweeps" apparently as many of the BJJ purple belts asked him for this.

As a white belt myself I have never been able to tap him but I always learn from him which is great. Very patient and a great teacher I find.

Anyway I went along with the rest of my club to a Frankfurt Competition last year to watch him compete in the BJJ White Belt category Gi and No-Gi. He lost every single one of his matches.

Like others I just assumed his Judo Black Belt would have given him a massive advantage and I just sort of assumed he was going to walk it. I half envisioned the people he beat accusing him of Sandbagging too. Though when I asked him about this I said "Tea Bagging" which I haven't lived down since :)

Anyway it was quite enlightening to watch the result and see him not manage to win a single match up. Always fun to have ones own naïve assumptions torpedoed :)

Black Sheep

Interesting podcast episode with Kieran McGeeney —- "Consistently above average", hosted by Andrew McGahon. An even split between GAA talk and BJJ talk.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033437#Comment_123033437

he must be black belt at this stage?

Black Sheep

He is.

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122667918#Comment_122667918

FYI it's in the ruleset of many rulesets that if you're a BJJ white belt but have pro MMA experience, a black belt in judo or have high-school wrestling experience then you must compete at blue belt i.e. you wear a white belt and fight blue belts.

Fair enough your team mate lost every fight, but he shouldn't really have been in the white belt division either, ruleset dependent of course.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037943#Comment_123037943

That's not actually a rule. People always say it is, but is a misquote. Some smaller orgs might have it as a rule if they also misinterpret the IBJJF rule I suppose.

The actually rule says is you are a judo blackbelt, or experience in wrestling or MMA you cannot compete as a white belt.

But another rule also says you can't compete as a blue belt unless you are a blue belt

Iguarantee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040302#Comment_123040302

In fairness, I said you must compete as a blue belt i.e. you would sandbag as a whitebelt.

You've cited "you can't compete as a white belt". The next lowest belt is blue.

The result is the same.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123045913#Comment_123045913

the results is not the same due to the second rule I quoted. That rules means they can’t compete at blue as a white. They can’t compete at all until they are a coloured belt. Same way a blue belt cant enter black belt divisions.

Some local comps relax the rules to allow more entries. But the above is the IBJJF rules that most promoters use as their ruleset.