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To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    How much do they reduce the spread by?

    Unclear, way too many variables to consider (eg: type of mask, properly wearing mask, reuse of masks, etc). This is the lack of scientific consensus I mentioned earlier.

    Not very much if a country as small as Ireland has 25K identified cases and likely a lot more in 1 day.

    You seem to have a better idea than the experts around the world, have you contacted them to let them know your findings? Tell them their measured investigations have not included your recent observation.

    The authorities obviously agree or we'd have a mask mandate right now.

    Authorities include the risk level in making their decisions, the risk level does not appear to warrant any restrictions such as social distancing, shutdowns, mask wearing etc. Don't you think authorities consider a number of factors before issuing any kinds of mandates? You are still arguing in terms of absolutes, it's not that black and white.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    This has to be the stupidest thing in your debate with people going around with their nose hanging out, using them as chin warmers and pulling their face mask off for a chat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    Seriously ?

    The fact everyone is wearing masks in the corridors and not in the hospital ward is completely bonkers and laughable NOT the staff struggling with the (as every year I can remember) seasonal virus period.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    So when surgeons and assistants are operating on a patient they don’t verbally communicate?

    If you had a shred of a clue yourself you would know that when people speak fragments of “spit” emerge from their mouths. It’s this I was referring to in my post.

    Im amazed I have to clarify that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭jimmybobbyschweiz


    In that regard it is also worth remembering the death rate as a proportion of the numbers infected is also significantly lower, possibly five or even up to ten times lower. At the same time, it is not likely that COVID deaths are under represented in Ireland given how they were counted and it is easier to track dead bodies than people alive and infected with COVID.

    With a CFR of something like .5%, the IFR is probably more like .01-.1% so, at worst, it has always ever just been like the flu, based on these numbers for mortality. Yet somehow hysteria took over and blew COVID way out of proportion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's more severe and more infectious than flu. Plus we have flu vaccines. We didn't have covid vaccines for the first waves of covid.

    You haven't calculated the flu IFR in the same way as the covid IFR. Also, the IFR is only half the equation. The number of cases being the other half.

    We didn't have flu circulating here in winter 2020 and winter 2021. We had covid. So that's another way it is different in threat to flu. It's far more difficult to contain.

    That's why every major health authority in the world reacted to covid as they did with measures such as mask mandates.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The 25K cases a day in Ireland while we had a mask mandate.

    All the cases in countries that were even wearing masks outdoors.

    The lack of any global data that shows masks made a difference...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can't believe some people are still arguing this shite flawed logic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    (a) Think of a number higher than 25,000. There you go.

    (b) The poster made a statement of fact that masks don't stop "viruses". A statement that is entirely without foundation, contradicted by every major health authority in the world, and multiple real world and lab studies cited on this thread.

    So there's no mask that stops any virus? That's the claim you're supporting.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A higher number would be 26,576. There you go. That's a higher number.

    And yes, if you've 26K cases a day and a mask mandate then you can clearly see mask mandates are not stopping the virus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So we could have more cases. So you've just disproven the 'logic' you continually repeat on the thread.

    And there's no mask that stops any virus? That's the claim you're supporting. It's a garbage claim completely without basis.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Masks didn't stop the virus. If they did, we wouldn't have had 25K cases a day.

    People like you have a feeling we would have had thousands of cases a day without a mandate.

    Global data doesn't support it. We were ok in Ireland before we had masks and we were fine when we took them off.

    The same applies to other countries. There was no correlation between mask mandates and case numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    But you just listed a number of cases higher than 25,000. So by your own logic you just disproved your own claim.

    So you have entirely failed to substantiate this claim though you continue to repeat it like a mantra. To do so you would have to show that was the maximum number of cases we could have had. You haven't shown this. You haven't even tried. So this 'gotcha' you keep repeating is nothing of the sort and is just a like a broken record at this stage.

    The poster isn't talking about "the" virus. But any virus. All strains of covid. All viruses. It is a claim completely without foundation and contradicted by every major health authority in the world.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Safe to say you don't work in any industry that uses statistics on a regular basis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    And thats why they wear masks?

    I don't get what point you are making tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    Do you see the difference between a surgeon operating on a patients open body for surgeries such as open heart surgery etc and hospital corridors ? Yeah ? In operating rooms it’s understandable that staff in those rooms wear masks.

    Thats all I was saying to the other poster.

    Is that clear now ?

    hopefully

    thank you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Of course I see the difference.

    But what is not clear is your rationale for thinking wearing masks in hospital when there are airborne viruses believed to be circulating more than anywhere else is " laughable " ?

    That is what I don't understand . They are being worn on wards but not by patients who have tested negative. And are in their own rooms etc. All staff and visitors are meant to be wearing them now, as are patients when moving from their area to another.

    This is a protection measure as most people in hospital are vulnerable .

    But of course there are always people who think they know more than the healthcare staff and decide they won't wear a mask when visiting.

    What is laughable at this stage is the constant arguing about a measure that does not affect most people in their daily lives except when they are in a medical facility .

    Thank you .



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The pandemic wasn't averted. We had it here as well. It wasn't a big deal though. Huge overreaction. We did more damage than good with our silly policies.

    Seems like they've finally saw sense though and have no intention of doing any of that rubbish again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    Oh I see now, so when you said 'hospitals were never quieter' you meant there were certain periods when the hospitals were relatively quiet. Not during the initial Covid waves of course as the spikes in admissions are well documented. Maybe you should have said that instead of making a sweeping generalization.



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People don't care about masks in medical settings. We care that other people who are free to wear masks are hell bent on forcing them onto others for whatever their agenda is.

    They tried this rubbish back in March and now again so hopefully they'll get bored soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    " people don't care about masks " lol. You speak for every body now ,do you ?

    The vast majority of people in medical centres comply with masks and did in other places when there was a mask mandate .

    People stopped wearing them except for those who wanted to continue because it was deemed unnecessary . If it is mandated again most people would again comply . Why ? Because most people do follow what is advised whether they are totally for it or not.

    Most people are happy to be relatively back to normal and want that to continue , and have more to worry about than what a union rep is asking for, among other things .

    It is you and some others who are constantly on here who don't agree and say you are worried about your freedoms .

    Who is " forcing " anybody ? Am laughing again here .

    Go live your life and forget about what may or may not happen . If it happens deal with it then

    This thread is losing an entire sense of perspective.

    You are " losing your freedoms " posting every day here and getting upset and angry at people you have never met.

    Entirely your choice of course , and you are " free " to do that ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Certainly what you said there is misinformation.

    The poster you're accusing of 'bluster' is one of the few actually providing data and proof here .



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you really need me to answer why people would wear masks if they were mandated by law with fines and other punishments for not wearing one.....?

    The Taoiseach and CMO both advised people to wear masks. People are not wearing them because they don't want to.


    People are not fools. They don't need a man on the TV to tell them when to wear a mask or not. If they wanted to they would.

    You don't need laws to force people to do what they want to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    What proof? Our own health minister can't provide adequate information. His "oodles of data" consisted of a NPHET minutes dump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    Not sure what you are giving out about, the post appears to have been deleted. If you are looking for proof that mask wearing had an impact on the infection numbers you probably won't get it since there are too many variables when looking at national infection numbers. But if you you are suggesting that proper mask wearing does not reduce the risk of transmission then you are ignoring the wealth of scientific evidence that is freely available.

    You can use some statement from the health minister as the foundation of your argument, I will stick with the global scientific community, medical experts and documented research.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    All the mask talk gone quiet now

    The INMO leadership don't seem to have any real ideas to put forward .They seem to be in the business of making noise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The government and HSE are riding it out. Numbers will decrease naturally in the next few weeks, like they do every year. Whatever peoples opinion on masks, it is far too late for them now anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    I see your original spit is now "spit" with fragments.

    I'm amazed by your word game for sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    This kind of posters are always hiding behind the masses. Not a leg to stand on, but it's always "we" , "most of the people", "vast vast majority" shíte rhetorics. Just a simple tactics to get more buy ins without knowing anything (topic related I mean, or using the topic to reach some fantasy goals), or look like a "knowledgeable" I guess. It's not exclusively this thread only. Happens around a lot on plenty of threads here. Ability of those to express their own opinion as their own is gone. But God save your sorry ass, if you try to challenge it, or take a píss out of those posts 😁

    Edit: see the post below, clear example..

    Post edited by xhomelezz on


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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Facts are facts.

    The vast majority don't wear masks despite the fact the Taoiseach and CMO advised us to.

    Thats because they don't want to.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm guessing people can see now that once again there was absolutely no need for a mask mandate. Hopefully these unions will see sense now and stop asking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,660 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Germany dropping mask mandate from February, I guess they don't see the Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders Kraken varient as a threat...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Mental isn't it? Bones of a year after everyone else.

    And thats only because of the FDP (liberals) in the government coalition. If it was for the Greens (also in the coalition) who deem themselves to be sole purveyors of all things virtuous it still wouldn't end.

    And thats with Drosten (German Dr. Tony) saying it's long over and masks won't make a difference anymore anyway.

    Post edited by CalamariFritti on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,496 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    When out today i saw many more people wearing masks when walking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭jimmybobbyschweiz


    I'm in Germany the last week and have seen one in a hundred people wearing a mask outside of public transport. They wouldn't get second looks and I hope they don't feel weird wearing a mask as it is their choice. There's no COVID warnings or signs anywhere so you wouldn't even be plugged into the current threat level from COVID in Germany at all.

    So even though masks are mandatory on public transport, COVID is very much over here and I think that is such a small measure that it is still okay to say that COVID is over here while that measure is still applicable for a bit longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Germany presumably doesn't have problems with the hospital's

    Thankfully we held out anyway when RTE and the unions started pushing for mandates



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just 389 in hospital now and 29 in ICU now. Mad to think people were calling for mask mandates 2 weeks ago!

    Hopefully they learn from this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    WHO reviewed their mask recommendation this week .

    No need for mandates but sensible precautions when cases are higher , imo.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,660 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    My local SuperValu sweets displays at the checkouts have been replaced this week by multple types of face masks and Covid tests running the entire length of the checkout, like a poor mans Boots 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,781 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Can’t under what the big deal seems to be about wearing masks.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Some people want to wear one. Most people don't.

    It should be no big deal but the people that want to wear them are hell bent on forcing everyone to wear them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's not about "want", it's a public health measure which works better when everyone is masked.

    It's like saying people want to smoke, most people don't. We weren't "hell bent on forcing everyone to stop smoking" - just stop smoking indoors beside us.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    There's not much interest in them now if they work so well

    British didn't even mention them when the sh1t hit the fan with the hospital's lately



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Masks are not mandatory as they are not deemed necessary. So it actually is about "want".

    You can wear one or not if you want.

    A vocal minority continue to push to have them forced on everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,922 ✭✭✭Russman


    Nobody anywhere "wants" to wear a mask. Some people think they're a relatively useful public health measure for relatively little inconvenience, some people don't. I'd suggest most don't think of it that way, and just don't like them, which is fair enough too, but there isn't some nefarious plan to force public health measures on anyone for sh1ts and giggles, and thankfully IMHO they won't be mandated ever again anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Except you have been using the exact same phrasing since day 0, even when they were mandatory, phrasing it as 'forcing them on everyone'.

    So you're contradicting your own posts if you are trying to pretend otherwise.

    It's not about "forcing them on everyone" for the sake of it, as a power trip. It's being urged for motives of public health, and that is why mask mandates were in place. SO I entirely reject the premise of your post.

    It is not debating in good faith, as it implies not merely are pro mask people wrong about the benefits of masks \ mask mandates, but motivated by bad motives.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭questioner22


    Mask-wearers can wear masks as much and as often as they want. Expecting others to do the same is just wrong! 

    Pro-choice is what it boils down to.

    "Public health" is a meaningless term at this stage. 

    Actual health is not a priority in this country, if you think about it.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't care if you reject the premise of my post.

    It's factual information that mask mandates are gone almost a year and not deemed necessary by authorities.

    You can wear one if you want. That's not enough for some people though.


    We've seen various unions and individuals pushing for mask mandates recently and once again we can see they weren't needed.



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