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To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    I started to understand you after reading your first post, chip

    Like the guy who goes out surfing when weather warnings are in place and puts the voluntary lifeboat people in danger having to rescue them, it happens

    No law against it but hey those kind of gloamers should think of others some time.

    But Lookit , that would never happen to you as you’re more than capable…

    Its a tough station for sure… we’ll sled on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's not always clear from posts on the thread, if only about the present or the entire pandemic is being discussed.

    The point also is that the state is entitled to mandate that you must wear one, should it deem it necessary. And it is doing so for public health reasons - not for the risk to you alone but also the risk to others. This is a misconception repeated constantly on the thread, that people were mandated to wear masks to protect themselves.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you're comparing wearing a mask with surfing in a storm then perhaps risk assessment is not your strong point.

    I can see why you might need some help/guidance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Which is completely fine if you stay at home when you're sick.

    Except people clearly aren't staying at home when sick. It is not ok to go out coughing and spluttering and spreading germs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The point is that the people who took those risks and had to be rescued or worse - were beyond rescue, all thought exactly the same as you did. It is the obviously the attitude that is being compared not the exact physical circumstance, unless you are determined to misunderstand the comparison.

    If you'd asked them why they were going out when there were warnings, they would have answered:

    I don't want anybody telling me what to do. I am more than capable of assessing risk and making my own choices in life.

    The reason why the government stepped in with masks (and other measures) is because them getting the assessment wrong was impacting too many other people.

    The excuses in their head were...

    It's not my fault if others get sick.

    It's not covid it's just X.

    I won't be in the shops \ close to anyone on the bus long enough to infect someone even if I do have it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    I think you credit those folk with too much common sense Mr O.



  • Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭Spiderman0081


    Which would explain the mass hysteria, covid certificates, 2km limits, police checks, masking children, closing schools, and most reasonable of all, letting people die alone.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, he quite literally did just compare surfing in a storm to wearing a mask. Probably the worst comparison I've seen yet... And that's saying something.


    Nobody got the assessment wrong. A respiratory illness spread. It's been happening for centuries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its obvious it was not a literal physical comparison - absurd to even suggest it. And this is a deflection tactic to avoid engaging with the core point about people getting risk assesments wrong.

    Apparently you dont care a jot if hospitals are overwhelmed and millions die.

    But those tasked with responsibility for public health and hospitals cant just shrug their shoulders and let huge numbers of citizens die.

    They didnt act like that for threat on the scale of spanish flu or for covid.

    Hence why every major health authority in the world responded as they did with measures such as masks when faced with a new highly infectious and severe enough to overwhelm hospitals as it did in Wuhan and Italy.

    Even then millions died.

    If you think nobody got the assessment wrong then you think governments shouldnt have implemented any restrictions whatsoever. Luckiky the people on charge decided otherwise. And acted with responsibility.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,627 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Just posted again on this on the Booster thread ....

    Maybe have a read to get some context .

    Not the gotcha you think it is .



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who got the risk assessment wrong? The illness was extremely mild for the vast majority so we didn't get the assessment wrong at all. Most of us were spot on in our assessment.

    Millions have died of flu over the centuries. Maybe you think we all got the risk assessment wrong for centuries? You know better? Maybe you think we shouldn't leave our houses without masks?


    But also, perhaps the most important point is that the poster was referring to the present, not the past.

    So your little rant about the past doesn't have much relevance.


    The situation right now is that you can wear a mask if you want. But that's all you are entitled to. I don't wear one and I am comfortable with my risk assessment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Correct!

    The analogy was an illustration of attitude by folk who don’t like being told what to do.

    They tend to think solely of themselves and not how their actions can affect others.

    They tend to be selfish people who seem to think that they are ‘experts’ on everything and vigorously object

    to being,as they tend to see it, told to do anything by the State, irrespective of the issue.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm actually a little disturbed that a post like this even managed to get 3 likes...

    Why on earth do you want people to tell you what to do? Can you not make any decisions for yourself?

    No wonder we've no accountability in this country. Just kick it upstairs and wait for someone else to deal with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Referring to your top quote I never suggested that…..please don’t put words in my mouth.

    Your second quoted post is pure rubbish.

    we all go to doctors, dentists, electricians, accountants, police who “tell us” what we can do in various situations.

    We seek advice from people who are better qualified than us in certain scenarios,who have more information, more training, more knowledge in certain fields than we have.

    There are folk of course who don’t like authority and for some warped reason think they know more than the ‘experts’.

    You’ll find them in boozers most nights and populating social media sites.

    But Lookit… we can carry on.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm more than happy to take advice on board but I don't appreciate being told what to do which is what you said.


    To try get this back on topic, I've looked at the global data and it's impossible to see any meaningful difference that mask mandates made.

    I've looked into studies for and against masks and nothing to suggest they made any meaningful difference.

    I see with own 2 eyes thousands of cases every day with a mask mandate in place.


    And I came to the conclusion that Id rather not wear a mask because I don't think they make any worthwhile difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You can Google and find plenty of studies showing that masks didn't have a meaningful impact, particularly the most common cloth masks.

    Even from your own article:. The World Health Organisation says: "the use of a mask alone is not sufficient to provide an adequate level of protection against COVID-19."


    How do you think a tiny island like this had 25K cases a DAY with a mask mandate?

    Why don't we have a higher number now that the mask mandate is finished?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Those earlier studies you are mentioning are not relevant to the mask mandates. If they are the studies previously cited e.g. they showed that cloth masks should not be relied upon by healthcare workers as direct protection against infection. Nobody is disputing that.

    Similarly, the sentence you have cherry picked out of the WHO is about direct protection to the wearer.

    The WHO recommend masks to suppress transmission.

    So if you accept their bona fides in that regard and citing them as an authority, your must accept the bona fide of that statement.

    You continually misrepresent the mask mandates as a personal decision re: personal protection.

    It was never about that.

    It was about suppressing transmission from the mask wearer to others.

    Similarly so we had 25,000 cases a day. Could we have had more? Yes.

    Our case count now cannot be directly compared due to different levels of vaccination, prior infections, and level of testing.

    We need to also consider the possibility that cloth \ surgical masks, while not directly protecting against infection, do offer a different kind ie reduced viral load exposure so that if infected, the infection could be milder.

    https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/07/418181/one-more-reason-wear-mask-youll-get-less-sick-covid-19

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭darconio


    I really don’t understand : I should wear a mask because, if I am infected, I could potentially pass it to somebody else when I cough/sneeze/open my mouth. Ok fair enough: I am not infected, I am not coughing/sneezing on other people’s face, I still should wear one because if not I am selfish. I am selfish because I could pass something I don’t have to somebody vulnerable that is wearing a mask (because if he isn’t then he is selfish according to the above rule of self-assessment) and probably on his/ 5th dose of the vaccine that is supposed to protect him/her from the infection, we have already established that the rest of the population is either unaffected or only in a irrelevant way. But this was working only in certain venues and in certain situations, you could sit at the table and talk freely to anybody around, but not if you stand up and walk to the toilets, you could board a packed airplane and remove your mask while eating and drinking, an hanging panel of plexiglass in certain situation is like wearing a hazmat suit: I mean are we still talking about mandating mask wearing to protect the general population from respiratory virus or just the vulnerable? What kind of mask? Do they need to be used 24/7 or only in certain settings/situations? How often do they need to be changed? Have they considered the damaged caused by breathing your own dirt for a prolonged time?

    I’ll gladly do my own risk assessment and don’t wear a mask, if you are part of those categories that could be affected by a respiratory virus, please do the same and wear 1, 2, 3 mask, safety glasses, gloves, hazmat suit, don’t leave the house, but don’t think, even for 1 second, that I should do the same to protect you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    LOL...you are back to your 25k cases a day 'evidence'...I thought you finally understood how moronic that particular argument is, I guess not :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,305 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    It's not even about protecting people, it's about making them feel safe.


    One thing Covid showed is that feelings outweighed facts on almost every issue - masks included. A combination of media-induced hysteria and a cowardly government, desperate to demonstrate they were doing 'something' lead to all the covid-theatre nonsense we have seen over the last few years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your entire post is a series of falsehoods.

    Hysteria? There was some hysteria on this thread from the "masks will kill you" brigade... hysteria seems to be a slogan now, thrown in as a mantra, without foundation. It seems to be shorthand for "somebody somewhere is showing the slightest bit of concern about covid". This appears to count as hysteria with some posters.

    The thread is full of the evidence presented for mask mandates, it was this evidence - following the facts - that lead every major health authority in the world to recommend masks and mask mandates. Now maybe you disagree with the evidence or the benefits but to state it was done purely as theater is without merit or foundation. You haven't even tried to support this with evidence. It could be dismissed without evidence therefore - but in this case, the evidence is there.

    It was always about trying to protect people and reduce the strain on the hospital services which we all rely on. Measures such as masks were about bringing down the R number of the virus.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Genuinely thought mask mandates were coming back with all the pressure on the govt that was applied in the last few weeks. I think if they can resist up until now they can resist any calls in the future



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Think the last paragraph sums it up. It's up to us all to do our own risk assessment now.

    Seems like roughly 95%+ have decided against wearing a mask.

    There is still some that will push the agenda to bring them back but getting told no several times should dishearten them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    What this thread really proves is there is a strong cohort out there who adopt the stance of ‘Im not going to be told what to do by anyone”.

    There seems to be an inherent built in attitude to not accept advice from those eminently qualified but put forward their own unsubstantiated conspiracy type arguments as to why they won’t comply.

    What is the big deal in wearing a mask in certain situations one has to ask?

    Most sensible folk look at the evidence, look at the qualifications of those giving the guidance, look a what other similar jurisdictions have adopted and make their considered decisions.

    There will be always outliers who rear up with some misguided, un researched, unqualified rubbish as instanced by this thread.

    Luckily it would appear most normal folk seem to have a bit of sense.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is still advice to wear masks. Most people just aren't.

    You might find that upsetting.

    But all you can do is wear your own mask and let others carry on without them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Not upsetting at all, not in the slightest.

    Its the mindset of those who try to ignore the advice from qualified practitioners to do a simple proven task has me puzzled.


    Lookit, I suppose every State has its problems… we are where we are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    there is no evidence that masking prevents infection of a respiratory disease. It's up to you if you want to keep masking obviously



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There is abundant evidence on the thread - from case studies of masked wearers not getting infected to lab studies on masks reducing droplets to comparitive studies of schools in US, Bangladeshi villages and Australian cities.

    To state there is no evidence at this stage is completely without merit or foundation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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