M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

Given the length of road involved, it really won’t make much difference whether M21 is present or absent - if your commute involves Adare now, it would still be disrupted by the event. But it lasts around a week, so it’s not the end of the world.

But, that said, the stretch from the Croagh junction (actually on the Limerick side of the village) up to the existing M21 looks like the most likely candidate for the first section in a phased opening.

To save searching back through the thread, here are the drawings that were submitted to ABP back in 2019.

FINAL DESIGN UPDATE - NOVEMBER 2018 | foyneslimerick

The best solution for active travel back at design stage and now is utilising the existing N21 between Rathkeale and Adare, imo. Most of the existing road is wide enough that it can accommodate two narrower driving lanes and walking/cycle lanes, plus a bit of separation between them. The traffic volumes on what will be the "old road" will be low, making it more pleasant that a route beside the motorway. The rail line is already there, and looks like it could reopen anyway, so that is not a consideration.

East of Adare, probably best to wait for the active travel proposal for the N/M20 project and tie into that.

It’s an odd argument, though, when the improvements will provide almost no benefit to the event organisers or visitors. I take your point about international events spurring development of infrastructure, but surely in that case M20 would be the critical project, not M21. This road would have a bigger impact on patrons of the competition, given that it is the road that everyone arriving at Cork Airport will be forced to use to reach the venue. I have heard nobody make a case that M20 is important to get working because of the Ryder Cup being staged in Ireland, but we keep hearing about how “essential” M21 is for the staging of this event, when in reality it will contribute to just 3 km of the route taken by well over 90% of those attending.

Honestly, I think it’s just a lazy word-association between “Adare” in the two phrases “Ryder Cup 2027 at Adare Manor” and “M21 Adare Bypass”.

That’s great news- now get on with building the damn thing

Improvements around Straffan, maybe, but the N7 had nothing to do with the Ryder Cup. No extra effort was put in to finish it “on time” - it was always scheduled to be done in 2006, and any desire to get it open earlier was down to minimising disruption on the State’s busiest stretch of road - it’s not even on the way to Straffan unless you’re lost.

This idea that stuff will only gets done because some event is on is nonsense. One-off events have zero impact on any decision-making regarding what gets built and when. If a road not being there means it takes an extra hour to reach an event that lasts only six days and won’t ever return to the town, then that’s just fine - the road is being built for the people who will be using it day in, day out, not some one-off international travelling circus.

First steps will be to complete the CPOs and then get going with advanced works. Tender docs can be prepared in the bacbackground but could be a while before we see the tender issued.

There must be some bar a claimant has to meet to get a judicial review. Hopefully it is not just filling out a form.

Seeing as the project is approved, maybe progress can continue on tendering etc. While this is underway?

Look to the M28 for the timeline of judicial reviews. High court, appeal to Supreme Court, Supreme Court generally won't be going near it. I don't think it'll stop the road, but it will delay it.

I think some of what you suggest is slightly dangerous because some undeserving things seem to slip into the "strategic infrastructure" bracket since they brought it in. I've seen some wholly private power generation projects getting put through as "strategic" for instance. I'm definitely in favour of the decision deadlines though, I think that's badly needed. And reduced access to JR's too seems to make sense to me.

Despite all the "tools" etc at the disposal of environmentalists to completely stop or delay projects, there still aren't a lot of good tools to enforce good roads design. Things like the current iteration of Shannonpark Roundabout in Carrigaline, or the Tivoli dual carriageway realignment etc: these projects shouldn't be getting approved and I have no idea how they're passing safety audits. So I definitely don't like the idea of allowing roads to progress through planning as "strategic" as there's just too many basic mistakes as it is.

Absolutely. I've had them ignore my submissions (in writing) before being slapped down by the regulator, NTA or politicians. They'll also hilariously often try and "ghost" you, if you point to the relevant standards: they'll communicate plenty if they think you know nothing, fobbing you off about how designs meet all the standards, and they go silent if you point out the relevant standards!

The process is really bad. Like surprisingly bad. You would think that professionals would appreciate you flagging basic mistakes, but it's like they consider it an insult to their profession or something. I can only assume there's a bad culture in Irish road engineering: it wouldn't fly in the industries I work in - people get rewarded for pointing out mistakes.

And as a recent example in terms of approvals, no matter what side of the Galway ring road you're on, most people will agree that it's actually astounding that it was approved, but that they didn't subsequently attempt to defend it's approval. Whatever you think of the grounds for the objection (whether you think it's right or wrong) it was really well known at the time ABP were "reviewing" it and approving it. It wasn't some vague fine-print text clause on a document, it was something that was regularly being discussed and debated in public. And the project was approved without even attempting to deal with the issue.

So yes, I would have fears about putting roads through as strategic infrastructure for that reason. We need to improve the process definitely so that projects progress way faster, but I think pushing roads through planning with the good old ABP as our expert eyes and ears would possibly be a step in the wrong direction!

Depends. If it reaches the High Court then likely two years, maybe more or even indefinitely if those takingtheJR are successful. They could be thrown out or withdrawn before getting there, it which case it would be months.

But advanced works need to be completed first, not sure if they can proceed with a JR is progress.