Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Another interesting thing is the reluctance of some of the media to identify that an attacker was transgender.

Woman Who Sexually Assaulted a Child When She Was a Teen Will Be Sent to Juvenile Facility (newsweek.com)

LA DA ripped after child molester faces little or no time (nypost.com)

If the media won't report it, it just leads to an increase in the concern people have. Pretending it is not an issue does nobody any favours.

So you are giving 4 examples of how Self ID is bad in 4 places where Self ID doesnt exist. 😶

That male prisoner (sex offender), obtained a GRC before they were sentenced to abuse Self ID laws and be housed with women, and not men.

Thankfully the prison system realised the scam, and is keeping them away from the women who are imprisoned there, but what happens when that person brings a discrimination case against the prison service, or there is not enough capacity for all these rapists who suddenly realised they were women?

You've disregarded examples provided from other countries that has led to women being raped, and impregnated while in prison.

Just keep your head in the sand saying "Nothing to see here, move along."

In the UK, where two of the four examples are from, since January 2017 prisoners have the right to be treated as their desired gender without a gender recognition certificate. They do not need to prove that they have lived as their desired gender, merely that it is their intention to live as their desired gender.

In New York, since 2018 prisoners have been allowed to declare their gender identity and be housed accordingly.

In 2021, New Jersey made it effectively mandatory to house prisoners on the basis of their gender identity, which could be specified at the time of intake into the prison service and with no evidence required.

Self ID doesnt exist in places where the crimes were committed so its not a potential problem elsewhere, is that the line you are going with now?

Christ on a bike.🤣

Self ID is not relevant. The person would be separated regardless of their gender status.

If they identified as male, they would be in the general population of a men's prison.

Unless you mean that any transgender person should be segregated in prison for their safety and the safety of others, which is something I agree with.

The question that comes out of that is that if it is acceptable, or even desirable, to segregate transgender persons in prison for safety reasons, then why is it not acceptable to do the same in sport?

Her objections have nothing to do with portraying transgender people in a negative light. Her objections are based on how easily Self ID can be abused in situations were women and girls are vulnerable, making them even more vulnerable.

It wasn’t just that though chopper, even though that in itself suggests that people who are transgender are somehow a threat to women and girls. No, the evidence presented by women’s groups, which JK is referring to, consisted entirely of grasping at straws to support the belief that their conclusions were an inevitable fact, based upon the idea that there was no such concept as being transgender, that men could not identify as women, and young women who identify as young men are victims who don’t know what they’re doing.

The gender recognition act doesn’t confer upon anyone the right in civil law to be free from prosecution for committing acts which are already an offence in criminal law. Regardless of whether the gender recognition act is reformed or not, it is still prohibited by law to discriminate against anyone on the basis of their being transgender, and to suggest that the concerns expressed by the women’s groups which JK is referring to, were dismissed, is also, simply not true.

What IS true though, is that exemptions already exist in equality legislation in relation to exemptions related to people who are transgender in certain circumstances -

National law and policy

Regulation of equality law lies within the mandate of our sister NHRI, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and we will not comment in detail on equality law. However, existing legal protections are a relevant consideration in applying the fair balance test under human rights law. The Equality Act 2010 (EA) allows a person’s trans status to be taken into account, whether they have a GRC or not, where there is an objective justification for doing so and where that is a proportionate means of achieving the aim. This exception to the general rule precluding discrimination against trans people is available in relation to: accessing single-sex spaces; information held by employers (which may be relevant to the provision of intimate medical care); and participation in sport. These exceptions are available in appropriate circumstances whether or not someone has a GRC. The proposed reforms would not alter the EA:

(here it gives a table of circumstances indicating the effects of the gender recognition act, available in the document linked below)

The EA exceptions broadly mirror the balancing mechanism in human rights law, in terms of which limitations may lawfully by applied to certain rights, including the right to private and family life, provided the restriction is shown to be necessary to meet a pressing social need, and proportionate in the particular circumstances.

https://www.scottishhumanrights.com/media/2306/written-evidence-to-ehrcjc-on-gra-bill-final-2022-05-13.pdf

What you have there Danzy is an anecdote, which I hope you’re not trying to pretend is in any way related to policies related to athletes who are transgender participating in sports.

Speaking of things unrelated, I’m not sure why you bring my religion into the discussion? Granted the Vatican has plenty to say on the subject of gender in relation to Catholic Education in particular, but I’m not seeing how it relates to Civil Law, which is what is being referred to here, not Canon Law or the beliefs of any particular religion?

FWIW, Catholicism doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when it promotes the idea that man was created from dust and God breathed life into him, then God figured it wasn’t good for man to be alone so decided to create for him a helper, and while he slept God took one of his ribs and fashioned him a companion which Adam decided shall be called woman… and that’s without even touching on the whole concept of transubstantiation in which the bread and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ, or the Trinity, the idea of three persons in one! 🤔

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+2&version=NIV

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2019-06/vatican-document-on-gender-yes-to-dialogue-no-to-ideology.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

While there’s all sorts of fun to be had with religion, and if that’s your bag, Hinduism is loaded with all sorts of fun stuff about gender, sex and sexuality, it’s probably best keep that to yourself lest anyone be given the impression you’re one of those fundamentalist types who thinks everyone in society must conform to your beliefs about other people who aren’t you, even though everyone in society has the right to freedom of expression and can therefore refer to themselves however they like, and you aren’t compelled to accept their point of view any more than they can be compelled to accept yours.

Right. I'm lost now. Again.

You're right. In a way I feel sorry for some of them that they let their lives become so obsessively bitter and twisted just because trans people exist.

In 7 years not one case of Self ID abuse or fakery can be pointed to. Its ridiculous people push these claims of abuse and fakery when the evidence overwhelmingly proves the claims wrong and incorrect. Claims about "abuse" and "fakery" are actually laughable.

The problem most posters seem to have is the expectation that Transgender people's rights should trump everyone else's.

On misrepresentations, that one’s a doozy, because there is no expectation that transgender people’s rights should trump anyone else’s. That’s just not the way rights actually work. The GRA recognises that everyone in society has a right to their gender identity, and it’s codification in law ensures that people cannot generally be discriminated against on the grounds of gender. That doesn’t just apply to people who are transgender, it applies to everyone.

Never mind, that this new system is so vague, and open to be abused.. but that doesn't matter. 

The only thing that’s actually vague in the above statement, is your claims that the system is new; it’s been in place in Ireland for 7 years, other countries for similar lengths of time including Canada, US, India, Australia, and a number of countries in Europe. It’s not as though you can’t look up for yourself how those systems work in those countries before you make claims which are neither based upon logic nor facts, but are entirely based upon emotional blackmail.

A vague claim that a system is open to abuse, begs the question - by whom? People who are of a mind to abuse other people generally try and stay under the radar so their behaviour is not exposed. People seeking legal recognition of their preferred gender aren’t staying under the radar, they’re doing just the opposite by asking that the State recognises them as their preferred gender. The mechanism for doing so is provided by the GRA. It doesn’t mean they have any extra rights they didn’t have before, it simply means they’re exercising a right which is available to everyone.

ALL systems btw, are open to abuse. It doesn’t mean that people who aren’t abusing the system should be discriminated against or deprived of their right to be recognised in law. That argument could equally be applied to the fact that the State recognises couples as being married, it doesn’t recognise that a husband has the right to beat their wife, something which is unfortunately common in marriage, which is why some women end up in domestic violence shelters, or in other circumstances - in prison, when they take the law into their own hands and exact their own ideas of justice. Then they end up in women’s prisons with many of them being exploited by prison officers who are mostly men, apart from a few women, who also abuse their authority, because the prison system is also, open to abuse. The law doesn’t punish prison officers who don’t engage in that sort of behaviour, any more than it would be unjust to deprive anyone of their freedom on the basis of the behaviour of someone who is NOT them.

It’s why we all had a bit of a giggle at the idiot who suggested a curfew on men on foot of one man choosing to commit murder. That’d be supporting prejudice and discrimination against a particular group in society, and it would serve no benefit to society. It’s similar to the argument that if women would dress more moderately, they wouldn’t be raped, as is often suggested by some people who use that same emotional blackmail to support their argument, by suggesting that nobody can say they weren’t warned, if a woman is the victim of someone who chose to commit rape. The system isn’t faulty because it didn’t place a curfew on either men or women. The fault lies solely with the person who chooses to commit rape.

And Self-ID simply shows just how bizarre the overall Trans movement is, and how they're all grouped together under one umbrella term, whereby if you're resistant/critical of one group, you're critical of the whole group.. even though the circumstances are incredibly different.

What groups are you referring to? Self-ID legislation doesn’t show how bizarre any group is, because it’s sole purpose is to recognise anyone as their preferred gender in law which means they are recognised as generally having the same rights and protection in law as people of that sex (there are some exemptions which are covered in the Equality Acts already) -

18. (1) Where a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person the person’s gender shall from the date of that issue become for all purposes the preferred gender so that if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/section/18/enacted/en/html#sec18

In being critical of Self-ID, you’re using one group to claim the system is open to abuse when you’re well aware that what you’re presenting are a completely different and unrelated set of circumstances which don’t apply, or claiming that anyone’s expectations and desires are more important than anyone else’s ‘traditional rights’ (vague, but still they’re not), or that there is any new system, when in reality the GRA is a modification which supports and upholds the traditional system of binary classification of sex and gender in law! It’s similar to the modification that was made to our marriage laws which didn’t change the effects in law on married couples, but simply meant the State recognises marriages between couples of the same sex or gender in place of civil partnerships which did not give couples the same rights as married couples, because the only way the Family is recognised in Irish law is through the institution of Marriage.

These are things that weren’t possible for people before the GRA, and it’s for those reasons it exists in Irish law, not just because of how you feel about being so petulant that you’re not willing to treat a person with the dignity and respect they deserve, not just what you feel they deserve. When it’s written in law, nobody has to give a damn about seeking your acceptance in order that they not be discriminated against based upon your prejudices, or anyone else’s for that matter, and nobody has to care for your misrepresentations either, because you’re only one individual, whereas the law is at least objective, and anyone has the right to seek legal recourse if they feel they have been the victim of unlawful discrimination on any of the nine grounds of discrimination in Irish law -

Discrimination occurs when you are treated less favourably than another person because of your:

• gender
• civil status
• family status
• religion
• sexual orientation
• age
• disability
• race (including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origins) or
• membership of the Traveller community.

https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/WP15000116

you used to have to give up your job when you got married if you were a woman in the public sector back in the 70's

Nothing quite so dramatic as that 😁

The family status ground is a fairly simple one -

Discrimination on the ‘family status ground’ occurs where there is less favourable treatment of one person compared to another person because one person has family status and the other does not or, has a different family status. 

‘Family status’ means being pregnant or having responsibility as a parent or person in loco parentis for a person under the age of 18 years or, responsibility as a parent or resident primary carer of a person of 18 years or over with a disability requiring care or support.

People cannot discriminate on the grounds of family status:

• when they are providing goods and services to the public generally or, a section of the public;
• whether these are free or where the goods and services are sold, hired or rented or exchanged; or
• when providing access to and the use of any place or or facility.

https://www.ihrec.ie/your-rights/services/family-status/

One of the more well-known recent cases was this one -

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1110/918922-boxer-halligan/

But there was a bit of consternation recently too when proposals were made to update the Maternity Act in Irish law to include protection for all pregnant employees from unlawful discrimination in employment; the suggested wording caused a bit of a stir -

Outstanding Technical and Linguistic issues

In their submission, the Employment Bar Association make a number of linguistic, technical and theoretical observations. These are detailed and will be a good resource for drafters refining the Bill going forward. The Committee recommends that the Department and those involved in progressing the Bill take account of the observations in that submission. For example, their submission highlights that under Head 12: Amendment of section 16(1) of Maternity Protection Act, 1994 – Reference to “Woman” for the Purposes of Entitlement to Maternity Leave, the Employment Bar Association observe that the replacement of “woman” with “person” in section 16(1) is appropriate in order to include pregnant transgender males, but say this raises the question of whether the subsequent reference to “the father of the child” should be amended to refer to “the child’s other parent” in circumstances where the remaining parent may not be male.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/33/joint_committee_on_children_equality_disability_integration_and_youth/reports/2022/2022-06-09_report-on-pre-legislative-scrutiny-of-the-general-scheme-of-a-work-life-balance-and-miscellaneous-provisions-bill-2022_en.pdf

The Times of course were quick to highlight the part which they figure was of greatest importance to their readers -

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-men-given-rights-to-breastfeeding-breaks-in-ireland-6kwxn238h

who is a 'mother' ? does it mean the person who incubated / gave birth to the child, as in Irish law, meaning a surrogate is the legal mother of any child she carries?...

Yep, that’s pretty much what it means -

Under Irish law, children who are donor-conceived and born outside of Ireland to same-sex parents cannot be legally connected to both parents. This is based on the patriarchal definition of ‘mother’ enshrined in Irish law as a ‘female who gives birth’. This characterisation assumes that the only way to be an emotional and physical caregiver is to give birth.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/surrogacy-and-assisted-reproduction-5577455-Oct2021/

By ‘looked at recently’, I’m not sure if this is what you’re referring to -

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/113642

That’s a whole can of worms of it’s own tbh, meant to address cases like this -

https://www.thejournal.ie/supreme-court-surrogacy-case-1767063-Nov2014/?amp=1

Or whether you’re referring to this case in the UK where the Freddy McConnell wanted to be registered as their children’s father on their birth certificates -

Freddy McConnell appealed against a decision made by a High Court judge that a person who carries and gives birth to a baby is legally a mother.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-52471697.amp

They had planned to go to Sweden to give birth to their second child, but ended up having an emergency C-section in the UK -

I actually was going to go to Sweden for the second birth as I discovered Sweden recognises trans parents. They can register accurately on birth certificates, so it would’ve registered me as the father. While the same thing is the case in Denmark, we sadly don’t have this in the UK. Because of complications and LB was so small I couldn’t do that in the end, but at the same time there was little details that made my experience. I listened to music in the theatre, and it was incredibly moving and special, so I’m very grateful about that and the staff, operating techs and midwives were just amazing.

https://naturalbabyshower.ie/blogs/b4baby/q-a-with-freddy-mcconnell

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vbq8/im-being-forced-to-go-abroad-to-give-birth

The laws around transgender parents and family law in different jurisdictions are an absolute legal minefield tbh.