Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

The post you quoted listed the benefits of testosterone on the body, which give a physiological advantage, which is massive in a sporting context.

How can you not grasp that?

biological males are faster, stronger and more powerful…that’s not anti trans, that’s fact.

at the time of puberty laurel hubbard was male so they were definitely advantages from a participating in weightlifting perspective. or do you disagree with that as well?

Yes I do, because at the time of puberty, Hubbard was already female in their own mind, and puberty only made things worse, so they took up weightlifting, “an archetypically male sport” in a bid to feel more masculine -

Hubbard has since said she took up "an archetypally male'' sport such as weightlifting in a bid to feel more masculine. "I thought perhaps if I tried something that was so masculine perhaps that's what I'd become,'' she told RNZ's Checkpoint presenter John Campbell in 2017. "But sadly, that wasn't the case.''

That was just the beginning of their trouble, which was caused by their ignorance of their own condition. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that information on being transgender is pretty sparse, even with access to the internet -

In the same interview, she was at pains to dispel "one of the misconceptions that's out there'' that she had trained all her life and her transition had happened "relatively late in the piece''.

"What people don't realise is I actually stopped lifting in 2001 when I was 23 because it just became too much to bear ... just the pressure of trying to fit into a world that perhaps wasn't really set up for people like myself''.

After living as a man for 35 years, Hubbard began transitioning to female through hormonal treatment around 2012.

…

By then, the rules around transgender athletes competing in sport had changed.

The IOC had moved through its Stockholm Consensus in 2003 to allow transgender athletes to compete in international events, and the IWF soon followed suit.

Now, under current IOC guidelines, issued in November 2015, athletes who identify as female can compete in the women’s category provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months, and cannot change to compete.

…

Hubbard's world championships medals raised an expectation that she would win gold at the 2018 Commonwealth Games, but she was the centre of controversy before she even got to the Gold Coast.

New Zealand's Human Rights Commission (HRCNZ) ruled that Hubbard's selection and participation was legitimate.

They were never in contention for a medal at the Olympics, barring some really unusual, unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances which would have put them in contention, something like all the rest of the athletes developing covid after a night out on the tiles, and Hubbard avoiding it because they were back in their bunk because nobody wanted them at the Olympics in the first place -

So how will she fare at Tokyo?

Hubbard is currently ranked seventh in the IWF"s women's +87kg division, headed by China's 21-year-old 2019 world champion Li Wenwen and Robles, the American who beat Hubbard to the 2017 world title.

But she produced the fourth highest total in qualifying.

To keep her gold medal hopes in perspective, Wenwen, who weighs 150kg and is half Hubbard's age, lifted a total of 332kg in 2019 - 47kg more than the veteran Kiwi, the oldest lifter at Tokyo.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/nz-olympic-team/125523731/tokyo-olympics-transgender-olympian-laurel-hubbards-journey-to-just-be-me

They took up weightlifting in the first place because they wanted to convince themselves they could become male if they tried. It’s a bit like a child who’s gay imagining that if they have sex with girls they’ll be converted to being straight…

In reality it doesn’t quite work like that -

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pregnancy-teen-lgbt-idUSKBN0NZ2AT20150514

but not in body so would have received the benefits I mentioned from testosterone. just to be clear I mean benefits from a weightlifting perspective.

so because I say that she was a male at the time she went through puberty that makes me a transphobe? no wonder it is impossible to discuss anything with people like you.

i have no prejudices against transgender people. and you definitely implied I was transphobic. stop the gaslighting.

I couldn’t care less who you do or you don’t have issues with, you definitely have issues with me anyway given you refer to me as “people like you” in your last post 😂

Contrary to your belief, I have always approached any issue involving humans, from the perspective of human rights. Not trans rights or whatever else, but human rights, so when I say I’ll leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions, and you come up with the idea that you’re transphobic, that is again your issue, not mine.

You’re not being gaslit either btw. Gaslighting is an attempt to undermine someone’s sense of reality in order to make them doubt their own sanity -

manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.

Like telling someone who is transgender that they are either male, or female, when they know they’re not. And before you say it - you’re still not being gaslit. What you are doing however, is playing the victim -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_playing

Again, did I say you said that, or was I giving an example of gaslighting to show you what the term actually means? I was giving you an example of gaslighting to show you what the term actually means.

You can continue to use the term as much as you like, I’m immune to it because it’s bandied about so often at this stage in online discussions without any understanding of it’s meaning. It’s still you playing the victim though in using it and pretending I was actually accusing you of being a ‘transphobe’ or gaslighting you, when I wasn’t.

But by way of being helpful - I’d suggest using the ignore function since you find it impossible to discuss anything with “people like you”.

I’m telling you what he professes on his YouTube channel, is BroScience.

And let’s be honest, you gave me absolutely no credit whatsoever in the first place, nor did I ever claim to know more than an awarded professor. Y’know who absolutely knows more about being transgender and sex discrimination though than Dr. Huberman?

His mentor at Stanford -

Barres described experiences of gender discrimination at an early age. While he was presenting as female prior to transitioning, he was denied at schools from science and mathematics courses, which he liked. It was a summer science course at Columbia University in New York City that enabled him to pursue further studies in science. A more serious event happened to his academics in MIT. After solving a difficult math problem that stumped many male students, his professor charged that it was solved for him by a boyfriend. He was the top student in the class, but found it hard to get a willing supervisor for research. He lost a scholarship to a man who had only one publication, while he already had six. While earning a PhD at Harvard, he was told that he was to win a scientific competition, which was evidently between him and one man; the Dean confided to him, “I have read both applications, and it’s going to be you; your application is so much better.” But the award was given to the man, who dropped out of science a year later.

After transitioning, he noticed that people who were not aware of his transgender status treated him with respect much more than when he presented as a woman. After delivering his first seminar as a man, one scientist was overheard to comment, “Ben Barres gave a great seminar today, but his work is much better than his sister’s [believing Barbara to be his sister] work.” In 2012, he recollected the events of his sex change:

When I decided to change sex 15 years ago I didn't have role models to point to. I thought that I had to decide between identity and career. I changed sex thinking my career might be over. The alternative choice I seriously contemplated at the time was suicide, as I could not go on as Barbara.

Barres was critical of economist Lawrence Summers and others who have claimed that one reason there are fewer women than men in science and engineering professorships might be that fewer women than men had the very high levels of "intrinsic aptitude" that such jobs required. He spoke and wrote openly about being a trans man and his experiences transitioning gender identity in 1997, and his experiences of being treated differently as a female scientist versus a male scientist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Barres

Mate, it’s pseudoscientific bullshìt he’s peddling, along with whatever products his sponsors want him to foist on the basement dwelling types that make up the vast majority of his audience… and you.

You can call it whatever you want, it still amounts to the same thing, I was only ever being polite in calling it BroScience. RationalWiki describes it well -

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Broscience

Frank you sexy fecker, your appeals to authority aren’t the least bit compelling, you might as well name drop Jordan Peterson while you’re at it as he’s a Professor too, and a professional bullshìt peddler.

I haven’t referred at all to his work in his chosen field (which I’m aware of, and is nothing like the BS he peddles on YouTube), nor is he the only scientist in the field. All you’ve done is presented me with a pair of videos and as much as said “listen to the science maaaan”, as if I should have cause to reconsider my whole world view, like an Apostolic conversion of sorts 😂

The only ideological position which I follow that’s relevant here Frank is the framework of Human Rights. By virtue of the fact that it is an ideological position, it’s also a philosophical position, more fundamental to humanity and society than your bullshìt peddler who already shares your world view. Instead of expecting me to argue a scientific argument with someone else, I’d argue the scientific argument with you, if you actually had one. Remember, I’m not disputing the effects of testosterone, which I’m well aware of.

This conversation is about attempts to exclude transgender athletes from participating in sports, and so far the justifications for the policies haven’t amounted to anything which justifies their necessity, particularly the glaring lack of any evidence, scientific or otherwise, to support their introduction. The lack of evidence comes from the fact that there aren’t many known transgender athletes participating in sports in the first place, much less who are actually open about it, because in order to protect themselves and their careers, they’re not coming out any time soon to be treated like lab monkeys for the entertainment of people who have already decided they shouldn’t be permitted to participate in sports in the first place, no evidence, scientific or otherwise, necessary to justify their already held beliefs about other people who aren’t them.

A wall of text about nothing and still ignoring science. As sure as the sun rises and sets, we will get this attempt at submission through a boring, long post.

Testosterone and it’s effects on male bodies doesn’t have a thing to do with human rights, it’s science. If you don’t like it, tough. It really doesn’t care about your feelings. The facts remain that male athletes enjoy a sizeable advantage over female due to the production and effects of testosterone on the body through puberty. This isn’t the first time, or last, that you will hear of that I’m sure, but you’ll ignore it.

Youre throwing your toys out of the pram by calling a professor at a very reputable college a bullshit peddler. You can’t refute a single thing he says because you have no evidence or facts to counter it, so you revert to attacking the messenger and not the message. This is a simple tactic you’ve been using all throughout this thread. It shows you don’t have a leg to stand on because that’s your fallback, and then you will reference human rights to validate your position when really, you don’t have one, not a valid or solid one at least.

Ignore the science all you want, all professionals names and so on, it doesn’t change a single thing about the scientific facts.

You’ve yet to present any science Frank, or anything that justifies the exclusion of people who are transgender from sports for that matter.

We’re all aware of the effects of testosterone, so what? Big woop! It’s not even approaching a position where it justifies the policies which are applicable to people who are transgender in sports because the research has never been conducted on transgender athletes, let alone at elite levels in any sports. There’s one single anecdote of Laurel Hubbards performance, and if that’s being used to justify the restrictions, the person using Hubbard as an example of scientific evidence is coming up as short as Hubbard did.

Caitlyn Jenner defends trans athletes in sports