Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Annasopra · 03-09-2022 9:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563179#Comment_119563179

There'll be no population left then

Annasopra · 03-09-2022 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562976#Comment_119562976

JK Rowling isn't transphobic?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭

chopperbyrne · 03-09-2022 9:34am

Using unedited direct quotes, or video footage, what has J.K. Rowling written or said that is transphobic?

El Gato De Negocios · 03-09-2022 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563578#Comment_119563578

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy/amp

The reality is that she didn't say anything inflammatory or derogatory, she gave her honest thoughts as a woman, an actual woman, not a makey uppy woman.

But the small, extremely militant group that consistently screech the loudest cant deal with anyone that has the audacity to express their own views so went to war with her.

03-09-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563509#Comment_119563509

What a waste of energy.

Think for yourself instead of what Twitter tells you. This is what JK Rowling gets despicable abuse for - tell me where the transphobia is.

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

03-09-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563263#Comment_119563263

No, deadly serious. Deranged, unhinged people, threatened by someone simply saying biological sex matters.

Rothko · 03-09-2022 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563578#Comment_119563578

Not a single thing.

03-09-2022 1:01pm

One of my favourite singer songwriters from one of my favourite bands is bringing out a memoir and put this on Facebook:

Response 🙄

They really try to ruin everything they touch don't they? Recognising the damage done by Tavistock does not mean hating trans people.

Annasopra · 03-09-2022 5:08pm

https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets/status/1563071226930937856?t=FM8Yel2k8XtCwbboB_VYsQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets/status/1559952159491375108?t=0-6IElaFBhoHUCQYCoOd-A&s=19

https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets/status/1546746497873723396?t=BypWALPm3XH1_nWR2RSdqg&s=19

https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets/status/1546420141205999618?t=RrHcGuP_Mev754p4w1DcOw&s=19

Yeah one article doesnt sum up JK Rowlings transphobia.

03-09-2022 5:27pm

Aidan Comerford is vile. One of the worst benevolent misogynists imaginable. I would never use the term "mansplaining" until I encountered the likes of him. A man telling women how they should define women. The absolute nerve of him.

JK Rowling doesn't hate trans people. It's a slur. She hates the women's rights-ignoring aspects of gender identity ideology.

Matt Walsh is vile too. I notice Comerford, in his trawling for tweetcrimes and likecrimes, omitted the quite strongly worded tweet JK Rowling sent to Walsh saying just because she agrees with him that biological sex matters (and the pope is Catholic) doesn't mean she wants to align with him.

Berns was awful (although TRAs who rejoiced at her death... yeah hardly better; same vileness from them recently when Allison Bailey took ill. Psychopaths) but as a lesbian, her overriding point is absolutely correct: a lesbian is attracted to women exclusively. That is what defines a lesbian. They are not attracted to transwomen, because they are same *sex* attracted.

There is a minority of people who are attracted to anyone, whatever their sex or gender or sexuality. Pansexual I think. That's great - lots of choice - but they need to stop pretending that that's how everyone feels.

As for other people JK Rowling has "replied positively to" - this thing of "they agree with one thing, they are the same as them - owned!" just ruins online discourse. You see it taken to extremes by dishonest idiots who will support any view, no matter how absurd, if it's something that nazis would disagree with... and if anyone does disagree with it, they are nazis. This is infantilised stuff. I could say that Comerford supports violent and sexually violent language against women, given how numerous TRAs speak, but I won't, because he doesn't... even if he does share some views with them.

thegame983 · 03-09-2022 5:30pm

That Aiden Comerford seems like a right bell end

Annasopra · 03-09-2022 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565887#Comment_119565887

That is literally just 1 person highlighting JKRs transphobia. I can find dozens more examples of her transphobia.

03-09-2022 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565906#Comment_119565906

He's dreadful. Spends his days telling women how they're wrong to disagree with "woman" being redefined. An arrogance of incredible proportions.

03-09-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565916#Comment_119565916

Other people highlighting transphobia (i.e. their very tenuous definition of transphobia, which is close to merely breathing for some of them) does not mean she is transphobic. What's needed is examples of her saying and doing transphobic things.

ingalway · 03-09-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565887#Comment_119565887

"Berns was awful"??

In what way was she awful?

03-09-2022 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565979#Comment_119565979

Very abusive, and did say transphobic things. That's no way to behave.

Annasopra · 03-09-2022 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565989#Comment_119565989

Exactly. All these people who go on about how great she was cannot be ignorant of her transphobia and neither can JKR.

chopperbyrne · 03-09-2022 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565916#Comment_119565916

Just so we're clear, reaching out to someone who is dying, and saying children are beautiful is transphobia?

DeadHand · 03-09-2022 6:11pm

Males are generally far stronger, faster and bigger than females.

Hence, the sex segregation of organised sport was neccessary since the inception of the same to facilitate fair and safe competition. In much the same way age and weight segregation is necessary in that area.

The above is the central truth of the matter. The answer to the question. The thread should not have went beyond it.

Alas, it consists of walls of nonsense by ideologues who never participated in sport to any serious degree, nor had any interest in it until now. You wouldn't hold these absurd positions sincerely if you had any practical experience in that pursuit.

Oceans of muddied waters.

Thankfully, in the real world where the grown-ups dwell, the side of loud, entitled ignorance is losing, with human decency and common sense prevailing.

One eyed Jack · 03-09-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564404#Comment_119564404

Recognising the damage done by Tavistock does not mean hating trans people.

Well that's certainly one way of misrepresenting anyone's argument. I figured the Mods might have deleted the last few posts as being off-topic seeing as this thread is about transgender athletes in sports, but since they haven't been, I figure play ball. The damage done by the Tavistock is one way of framing what actually happened at the Tavistock, and the reasons for it's closure. It was closed down for a few reasons -

Infighting among Trustees, Management and staff
Failure of clinicians to keep proper records of their consultations (though the provision their services was highly praised in the Cass report)
It was determined in the Cass report that a single service was unsustainable in the long term given the current waiting lists and the increasing numbers of children being referred to the service

Interim report – Cass Review

Portraying the treatment of children at the Tavistock as damaging, IS trying to encourage prejudice against people who are transgender, similar to the way in which prejudice was encouraged against people who are gay or lesbian - it was portrayed as 'the gay agenda', similarly to the way it's now being portrayed as 'the trans agenda'. I don't have any interest in supporting the Irish Independent either, but the full article is reproduced here. Eilis O' Hanlon, who writes for the Independent, has written plenty on the subject, and has been doing so for years, right back to when I think she may have been channelling her inner Germaine Greer with this particular article.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563842#Comment_119563842

Think for yourself instead of what Twitter tells you.

That's good advice, but it's ultimately meaningless as our innermost thoughts are undoubtedly influenced by external influences, or our environment, or what we read anywhere, regardless of the source, whether it be twitter or social media, the complete works of Shakespeare, or indeed the complete works of JK Rowling, including her works written under the pseudonym of one of the most prominent practitioners of conversion therapy. One thing about Rowling is that nothing she does, is just by coincidence. Thing is - I don't believe Rowling IS transphobic, because that would require an underlying belief that she cares about anyone but herself. I don't think she does, therefore logic dictates she cannot be transphobic as she just doesn't care about anyone else in the first place! Her whole shtick is based upon promoting her idea of 'free speech', and in order to do so, she latched onto what she saw as a hot-button topic which would generate plenty of controversy, which means lots and lots of publicity, which means her creative works fly off the shelves, regardless of whether they are good or bad, her supporters are indifferent.

Rowling gets despicable abuse because she generates it and courts it by knowingly winding people up on social media. She didn't start with the tweet you quoted, it was long before that, when she took a swipe at a charity organisation which had the temerity to use the term 'people who menstruate' to refer to, well, people who menstruate, which, depending upon your point of view, includes people who do not refer to themselves as women. Rowling didn't miss the reference, but she was clearly banking on the idea that her followers on twitter would.

None of this sex/gender discourse should be new to anyone who identifies themselves as a feminist, because it was feminism in the first place which invented the distinction to counter what was then ascribed to 'biological determinism', the term 'male violence' being yet another example of the same idea, implying that males are violent as a consequence of biology. It's clearly a circular argument which suits the purposes of the person proposing the idea, a bit like it's more modern, yet equally pseudoscientific descendant 'evolutionary psychology'. The reason feminists introduced the idea of a distinction between sex and gender, first as a rebuttal to accepted science dominated by men, and later in Academia, becoming known as gender studies, or women's studies, was an argument against the idea of there being only one sex - that of men, and women were simply regarded as being the less evolved of the species - incapable of the physical and creative abilities possessed by men. That idea is still very much in play when it comes to all sorts of social activities and determining who should, or indeed should be prohibited from, engaging in those activities... for their own benefit of course.

At least that's what they're told anyways...

Feminist Perspectives on Sex and Gender (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Intersections Between Analytic and Continental Feminism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

ingalway · 03-09-2022 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565989#Comment_119565989

Completely disagree. She was a young woman who was ahead of her time and not afraid to speak her mind and the truth. I guess some men don't like 'uppity' women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uphZ0PLXbEw

03-09-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566786#Comment_119566786

Quite the misrepresentation. How can fact be disagreed with? And being ahead of one's time and not afraid to speak one's mind and the truth doesn't stop a person from also being abusive - or buying into conspiracy theories.

How does that help anyone, tarring all transwomen like that? And it only gives the TRAs ammunition. When there is abuse hurled at those who are critical of gender identity ideology, is the issue simply that the person it comes from is "uppity"? No, it's because it's abusive.

If your last sentence was directed at me, I'm a woman. And what about the rest of my post, in which I agreed with Berns otherwise.

03-09-2022 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565932#Comment_119565932

She's not supportive of the Trans cause, so therefore she's transphobic. Along with the majority of any given society. If you hold to science and biology, over feelings and modern psychology (considering it's not long ago that they did a U-turn on all this), then, you're transphobic. The pro-Trans advocates have repeatedly shown there is no middle ground allowed.. Either you openly support Trans issues or you shut up. That's it really. It's worse for Rowling because she's such a public figure.

She's not really transphobic. TBH I doubt there are many people anywhere that are actually transphobic. Just people with concerns over what's been happening, and wondering when basic common sense will kick in.

One eyed Jack · 04-09-2022 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566100#Comment_119566100

Males are generally far stronger, faster and bigger than females.

Hence, the sex segregation of organised sport was neccessary since the inception of the same to facilitate fair and safe competition. In much the same way age and weight segregation is necessary in that area.

The above is the central truth of the matter. The answer to the question. The thread should not have went beyond it.

It’s not the central truth of the matter though. The reason sports were segregated is because men at the time who organised the events, didn’t want women participating in activities which it was argued were for men only because women were thought to be incapable of participating in sports.

Alas, it consists of walls of nonsense by ideologues who never participated in sport to any serious degree, nor had any interest in it until now. You wouldn't hold these absurd positions sincerely if you had any practical experience in that pursuit.

Your ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacious nonsense isn’t worth shìt. Nor is again your no true Scotsman nonsense when it’s a fact that many high level athletes hold the opinions they do, precisely because they care more about everyone having the equal opportunity to participate in sports, regardless of your ideologically fuelled nonsense -

https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/press_release/billie-jean-king-megan-rapinoe-and-candace-parker-join-nearly-200-athletes-supporting-trans-youth-participation-in-sports/

Many of those who oppose transgender athletes like Lia being able to participate in sports claim to be "protecting women's sports." As a woman in sports, I can tell you that I know what the real threats to women's sports are: sexual abuse and harassment, unequal pay and resources and a lack of women in leadership. Transgender girls and women are nowhere on this list. Women's sports are stronger when all women—including trans women—are protected from discrimination, and free to be their true selves.

Forcing an athlete to hide an essential part of herself in order to participate isn't a solution. If I were to remain closeted, my mental health would deteriorate, and I wouldn't be able to perform at my best in any part of my life. I wouldn't want that for myself, or for any of my teammates. We're at our best as a team—and as a global community of athletes—when we can all be ourselves.

I'm proud to be one of more than 300 NCAA, Team USA and Olympic swimmers who signed an open letter from Schuyler Bailar and Athlete Ally in support of Lia and all transgender and nonbinary swimmers. At the NCAA championships, I'll be cheering on Lia and all of the amazing swimmers that make this sport great by being authentically and proudly themselves.

Erica Sullivan is an American Olympic swimmer who won the silver medal at the Tokyo Games in 2021.

https://www.newsweek.com/why-im-proud-support-trans-athletes-like-lia-thomas-opinion-1689192?amp=1

“No practical experience” tho, just an Olympic swimmer 🙄

Thankfully, in the real world where the grown-ups dwell, the side of loud, entitled ignorance is losing, with human decency and common sense prevailing.

Entitled ignorance IS losing and human decency IS prevailing, in spite of numerous attempts at introducing laws to inhibit anyones participation in sports, but that’s not a point working in your favour, and as far as ‘common sense’ goes, that’s just the feeling of smug satisfaction anyone gets from thinking everyone else agrees with them. It’s also not based upon any empirical evidence whatsoever, it’s just a feeling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119567360#Comment_119567360

She's not supportive of the Trans cause, so therefore she's transphobic. Along with the majority of any given society. If you hold to science and biology, over feelings and modern psychology (considering it's not long ago that they did a U-turn on all this), then, you're transphobic. The pro-Trans advocates have repeatedly shown there is no middle ground allowed.. Either you openly support Trans issues or you shut up. That's it really. It's worse for Rowling because she's such a public figure.

More playing the victim nonsense. Neither science nor biology are beliefs, so there is no holding to them as though they are. There is no scientific consensus whatsoever with regard to transgender athletes participation or performance in sports. As far as modern psychology goes, in much the same way as science and biology have gone, they’ve done u-turns on plenty, as more evidence became available which indicated their previous assumptions were incorrect; the earth being flat or that homosexuals are intrinsically disordered, being two of the more well-known examples. The ‘middle ground’ you’re looking for is being able to discriminate against people who are transgender, that’s not middle ground. Level ground is what anyone is looking for, having the same protection of society as everyone else has, with rights in law which protect everyone equally.

She's not really transphobic. TBH I doubt there are many people anywhere that are actually transphobic. Just people with concerns over what's been happening, and wondering when basic common sense will kick in.

Again, ‘common sense’ is nothing more than the feeling of smug satisfaction anyone gets from thinking everyone else agrees with them. It has little to do with the study of biology, but is of interest in the study of psychology which is a science, regardless of anyones opinions as to whether it is or it isn’t -

https://www.apa.org/education-career/guide/science

If anyone has genuine concerns, they aren’t going to be alleviated by grifters on social media or proponents of ‘free speech’ advocating for their perceived right to perpetuate prejudice, ignorance and hatred of any group in society under the guise of ‘concerns’, as opposed to what it actually is - nothing more than fearmongering nonsense, which, it’s true, most people really have no interest in. It’s why the same proponents of these ideas will go to extremes to hammer home their fearmongering -

“I’m talking about you dads, who maybe carry – I think that’s what you say, I’m so down with the American lingo.

“Maybe you carry, maybe you don’t. Maybe you consider yourself a protector of women, maybe you’re that sort of man.

“Maybe you have a daughter or a mother, or a wife, maybe you have a sister. Maybe you have friends, maybe you just think women are human and you don’t need any absolute connection with them to feel compelled to protect us.

“I think you should start using women’s toilets, men.”

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/01/30/gender-critical-feminist-posie-parker-men-guns-womens-toilets-twitter/

Rothko · 04-09-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565916#Comment_119565916

Do it then

One eyed Jack · 04-09-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569040#Comment_119569040

While I couldn’t care less whether she is or she isn’t, I can certainly understand why anyone who is of the opinion that she is transphobic would hold that opinion when the SNP are proposing reforms to the current gender recognition act which would make it easier for people who are transgender to be recognised as their preferred gender in law, without necessitating a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and JK broadcasts the following on Twitter -

Multiple women’s groups have presented well-sourced evidence to Nicola Sturgeon’s government about the likely negative consequences of this legislation for women and girls, especially the most vulnerable. All has been ignored. If the legislation is passed and those consequences ensue as a result, the SNP govt can’t pretend it wasn’t warned.

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1500873562894258183?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500873562894258183%7Ctwgr%5E8ea22d9d1957575f9de58aa61ca6ed6694f0094e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-19612292262093196871.ampproject.net%2F2208172101000%2Fframe.html

This Wiki entry gives more information on the proposed reforms -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Reform_%28Scotland%29_Bill

Of course I can understand too why anyone would say that doesn’t count, that’s not evidence she’s transphobic, that doesn’t prove anything, etc, even though her objections are predicated entirely upon portraying people who are transgender in a negative light, solely on the basis of their being transgender. The following isn’t an unreasonable explanation of the concept IMO -

Transphobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence, anger, or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to social gender expectations. It is often expressed alongside homophobic views and hence is often considered an aspect of homophobia. Transphobia is a type of prejudice and discrimination, similar to racism and sexism, and transgender people of color are often subjected to all three forms of discrimination at once.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

chopperbyrne · 05-09-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570013#Comment_119570013

"Of course I can understand too why anyone would say that doesn’t count, that’s not evidence she’s transphobic, that doesn’t prove anything, etc, even though her objections are predicated entirely upon portraying people who are transgender in a negative light, solely on the basis of their being transgender. The following isn’t an unreasonable explanation of the concept IMO -"

Her objections have nothing to do with portraying transgender people in a negative light. Her objections are based on how easily Self ID can be abused in situations were women and girls are vulnerable, making them even more vulnerable.

Annasopra · 05-09-2022 8:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572838#Comment_119572838

Im always fascinated by these claims "self ID can be abused" - in 7 years there has been no evidence of such "abuse" in Ireland. People who go on about how it might be abused can never point to any examples of where it has been abused.