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Is the jnlr a load of nonsense ?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    To be fair to say that 80% of adults (15+ years old) listen to the radio every weekday does sound very high.

    Even if I heard 80% listen 2 or 3 times a week, I'd think that was high, and that is far more realistic.

    I can't really argue with the data but it does seem strangely high, I know I am only going on my own anecdotal data but among 30 or so close friends and family only a few would listen on any sort of regular basis.

    How do they contact people? House phones? If so surely that leads to issues with the data as so many don't have house phones these days.

    Do they publish any raw data? Interview transcripts or that I'd be curious to see them.

    Is the 80% figure coming from ringing random people and asking did they listen to the radio at all yesterday and 80% said yes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    There have been several posts throughout this thread explaining how the JNLR survey is conducted. It is not done by telephone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I'm suspicious of a lot of market research based on supposed random interviews whether in person or by phone. The reality is that only some people will be bothered to answer the door/ phone/ email and cooperate and these get known to survey organisations. If you've the gig of interviewing xyz number in certain demographics and yyz of another and so on, it just has to be easier to have a panel of people who might help you and keep hitting them. So it should be no surprise if results change little.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I have never discussed radio listening habits with anyone in real life. My first reaction to someone claiming to do so regularly with 30 people, is that it is very odd behaviour. But then I realise that I am using my own personal experience to project on to others, and that is exactly what I warned of guarding against.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Apologies missed the face to face bit



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Those little changes are probably of great interest to the broadcasters, and has been said the advertisers. Some details like the top 20 listened to programmes make the papers, but are not in the link provided by IPSOS. 18 out of 20 are RTE Radio 1 programmes (last but one survey).

    You have to pay to get the full details: "The Report provides information on all individual stations over a range of demographics and special interest categories. The full report can be purchased from Ipsos MRBI. Tel. 01-438 9000".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    A sample size of 1,050, if properly selected, can definitely provide a true reflection of the population of Ireland (albeit with a margin of error).

    The JNLR is not nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    There is a value in polling the same people continuously, to detect changes and that you're comparing like with like.

    But the JLNR survey methodology specifies random selection for polling.

    It'd be interesting if there was independent audit/ verification of how they go about it in practice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    I would assume most people hear the radio every day, even if they’re not tuned in to exactly what’s happening. They might be station hoppers and not commit to one station so they don’t consider themselves as people who “listen to the radio.”

    For example, there is a tv show I put on in the background regularly. I don’t really follow it. I don’t consider myself as someone who watches the show but it’s on in the background and I’m still consuming it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    If your assumptions are correct then there are millions of radios and televisions wasting electricity. Nobody would suffer if they turned them off. Good scope there for saving electricity when the gas supply is reduced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Neither TVs nor (particularly) radios use much power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Background listening is also an aspect covered by JNLR. Within the specific listening time segments, you will be asked if you heard a radio - even in shops, garages, another house, it the workplace etc... it is not all down to owning a receiver and turning it on to a specific station or programme. It tries to record total exposure, even when you have not specifically chosen to listen or are not in direct control of what you are listening to.

    How effective that capture is, may be down to further argument, but it does try to cover as broad a listening base, as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    Yeah, that was my point. Someone was saying it seems high that 80% of adults hear the radio every day.

    But even if you don’t consider yourself a radio listener, you’re likely to still hear the radio throughout the day. I would say they seem accurate in that respect



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    You seemed to have missed my point.

    People are anoraks want to here these stats, much like they like to see stats on a You Tube video. And in general (in the past) when TV was relevant you rarely heard about the daily stats of TV channels unless its a big sporting event or The Late Late Toy Show, but the stats are available as you point out daily and updated weekly and possibly monthly now, but yet Newspaper columns are always more interesting in how Today FM is doing.

    My point wasn't about traditional/linear broadcasting.

    Indeed back in the day (like nowadays) people also watch non-linear programming via VHS recorded programming and rented films, which were never part of the TAM system, much like tapes and CDs listening.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    I know plenty who don't have a radio in the house and use only smartspeakers so I'd say that 5% is out of touch. The only radio I own is in the car and in the home I would use a smartspeaker or the television if I wanted something from the radio.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    How many thousands, and over how many minutes? What were the options given in the poll?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I never thought of asking other people whether they have a radio in the house. And I certainly wouldn't go round looking in their rooms if I was visiting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    Good for you. I'm not asking people either. All kinds of irrelevant things come up in conversation between people. Someone might say did you hear X or Y on the radio and they'll reply "I don't have one"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Depending on how many you mean by "plenty" and how representative they are of the whole population, it could be useful research. But not robust enough to conclude that 5% for smartspeakers is out of touch. This is why the JNLR is not nonsense, it uses real proven research methods from a large representative sample.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    Here we go again. Standby for social media blitz from DJs and stations.

    ”Everyone is awesome!”

    https://www.bai.ie/en/download/137446/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    Funnily when you look at that link, it looks like only five or six stations improved (iRadio, Sunshine, Spin 1038, Cork’s 96FM/C103 and Radio 1). The rest are all minus but I’m guessing there’s more statistics available than that and we just don’t get to see them.

    Two youth stations iRadio and Spin 1038 seem to have improved most which is positive for radios future!



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZaK23-54


    JNLR’s have been found out at last.

    Saying 69% of under 25’s listen to radio...hello????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    A lot of under 25s are going to live at home and be in the car with their parents regularly who listen to the radio. They might not actively be choosing to listen but they’ll still be listening



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Master Anorak


    Journalist Tom Lyons mentioned this on twitter awhile back, he made the point that if one takes the jnlrs at face value, it means that Spotify, YouTube, Podcasts etc etc have had minimal to no impact on FM radio listening the past decade, something about that doesn't add up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I looked at a JNLR summary from 2012, and compared it to one from 2021. It shows that 85% of over 15's reported listening to some radio "yesterday" in 2012, but only 80% in 2021. If he is saying that the actual number of listeners has held up, that would be accounted for by the increase in population.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,927 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    JNLRs are a joke - It’s all falsified to keep advertisers in the game of Radio ads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    Sometimes I decide to listen to Spotify and podcasts if I’m in the mood for something but sometimes you just don’t want to choose so you just stick on a radio station and listen to whatever is happening there. I’m sure I’m not the only one either.

    And surely an awful lot of people listen to the radio in their car. There’s so many factors to consider there like. There is still a fair amount of cars without bluetooth or aux cables. A lot of people with kids might not want to play their podcasts while in the car with the kids. On short journeys, it might be easier to just listen to the radio than starting and stopping their podcasts or listening to Spotify, where you might want to skip a few songs and it’s awkward and not worth it when you’re only in the car for ten minutes.

    I’m not saying they haven’t had an effect because they have, but Spotify/podcasts serve a different purpose to radio and there’s a strong place for both of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Surely CDs, MTV and personal music devices over the years have also had no impact. Perhaps you are reading the statistic incorrectly.

    How many minutes of Radio does the JNLR suggest we listen to per day and what was that number 10 or 20 years ago.

    Have to say I have never been a big radio listener except in the car.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday





  • Talk to anyone under 25 out there if they listen to radio and generally speaking they just don't. I wonder if someone is surveyed and say they don't listen to radio what happens? do they account for that, or just move on to the next person.

    it's blatantly obvious that the figures they publish don't add up. The biggest mystery to me is how advertising agencies are yet to cop the BS and keep spending money on radio advertising. Only a matter of time before spending dries up



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Master Anorak


    An awful lot of advertising on the radio nowadays is from government agencies, seems to be very much a case of taxpayer assistance by the backdoor



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    How many people under 25 did you ask?

    The JNLR system is paid for by the radio stations, who depend on it to be accurate. It's blatantly obvious that if they did not trust it, they would not fund it.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    You would have to listen to thousands of hours of radio every week to come to that conclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    This was a couple of years ago now but I remember seeing Spin 103.8 go on TikTok and Jaz and Laura would get teenagers commenting saying things like “oh my God, it’s Jaz and Laura” or “I was just listening to you today and now you’re on my TikTok.”

    A Lot of people under 25 still have an interest in radio and they still see it as ‘cool.’ Otherwise presenters like Marty Guilfoyle and Jess Maciel wouldnt have massive followings on TikTok



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    About 12 years ago I came across one of the boxes they use to monitor the channel viewed, installed in the home of a late middle-aged couple, kids had left.

    He was severely mentally incapacitated by a brain injury, she was of traditional, conservative, mass-going country stock. Yet they were deemed to be the typical demographic of a suburban Dublin housing estate.

    I've never believed a word of the viewing figures since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Did you go into every household, they would represent they older demographics of the country. Did you ask her how long she on the panel?


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    It had just recently been installed but was there for a good few years afterwards (i worked for them before and after, so knew them well).

    It was more the geographical demographic i was pointing out cos it was way off.

    Is it just done on age and not geography? How is the younger demographic extrapolated? Do they just assume a family of parents and kids are all sitting watching the same tv a la Gogglebox?



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Master Anorak


    I've seen a similar "out there" statistic that every copy of the RTE guide magazine sold is read by is an average of 6 people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    No doubt a figure arrived at by a commissioned survey

    Hello sir, what can i do for you?

    I'd like to commission a survey please

    Certainly sir, and what would you like the results to be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    I would have thought it was only for one year, and it should be more geographical than it is, to have good results from the TAMs you'd need to divided it like so

    1000 in each province and Dublin

    of the 5000 1000 with sky, 1000 with saorview, 1000 with cable and 1000 "without a TV" and 1000 getting TV from Sat and spillover

    within the 5000 an even split between rural and urban, an even split between different types of families (single people, couples, young kids, adult kids and so on) and an even split between dwellings (apartments, houses, renters, owners and so on).

    You'd then correlate your stats based on the CSO demo country demographics.

    Especially considering how much they spend on the TAM ratings.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭brettmirl


    In-car listening makes up the bulk of it alright, although smart speaker streaming of radio stations increased over Covid as people worked from home and wanted some background music.


    I saw research before from the USA, by Edison that showed the growth of Spotify (& Pandora over there) basically just replaced time spent listening to CDs/MP3 players. It also showed that people listened to online music streaming services more if they paid for it rather than the free ad-supported versions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    In reality, given todays multi-media, variable household make-up, viewing figures can be nothing more than back of the envelope nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    They always where TBH.

    Even when you take a standard family in the 1960 you have to consider how many people actually had a TV

    In the 1970s less so, by the 1980s and 1990s you have the video recorder and rentals.

    And in each era you have cinema to a greater or less extent.

    Did TLLS really have the numbers that are suggested, considering people going to the PUB and other entertainment venues.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Master Anorak


    How do FM104 get away with still calling themselves Dublin's No1 hit music station when spin1038 is officially No1 for some time now according to the jnlrs ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Depends on what Number1 Hits means. It is not exactly a quantifiable stat so it can mean any amount of things; sure aren't they all number 1 in some demographic or others?

    For the record, RTÉ 1 outruns Spin in the JNLR numbers wise 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    I’m pretty sure the point was Spin is the no. 1 hit music station. RTE Radio 1 isn’t a hit music station.

    Fm104 used to have the no. 1 hit music station line in their Twitter bio but it’s gone now. Do they still say it on air?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Their logo is FM104 Dublin's Hit Music Station.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Funny I though 98fm was the Capitals most listened to station.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Probably if you go into the small print, all of them will qualify it with some reference to age groups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    I didn't say that RTE 1 was a hit music station, just that it's the most listened to station. That aside, Spin can rightfully say that are the most listened to music station. However without the JNLR that claim would be flimsy to prove. For now, that is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 examiner Reader


    Conall Ó Móráin has an opinion piece in today's Irish examiner agreeing with the op



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