Marathon Improvers Thread.

coogy wrote: »

S, which pace group are you referring to, was it the 3:20 group?

It was. But the point holds whichever pace group is in question. 3:20 was my target time. I waited until I was practically the last person in the pen before setting off. I was still in most of my 'stay warm' clothes when the gun went off. I didn't want the distraction of the pace group. I never saw them until I was outside Bushy Park. I was intent on running my own race. I can see however that others would prefer the comfort blanket of keeping them in sight.

healy1835 wrote: »

FWIW I ran with the 3:20 pace group a couple of years back. It's a pretty big group and I just plonked myself in the middle of it. Coasted along, well protected from the elements, until about Rathgar where I moved a bit ahead of the bigger group. I possibly would have broke 3:20 that day anyway, but the pace group just took all thinking out of my hands and really relaxed me. If I had to chase down a balloon or keep it in my sights then I'm not sure how I might have fared......but as Skyblue says, it's a decision that's purely individual.

This is my dilemma atm, whether to avail of the shelter provided by the pacer group or to pace my own race which would involve running alone and battling the elements.

skyblue46 wrote: »

It was. But the point holds whichever pace group is in question. 3:20 was my target time. I waited until I was practically the last person in the pen before setting off. I was still in most of my 'stay warm' clothes when the gun went off. I didn't want the distraction of the pace group. I never saw them until I was outside Bushy Park. I was intent on running my own race. I can see however that others would prefer the comfort blanket of keeping them in sight.

Thanks for that S, just wondering did you find it very stop start to maintain you pace in the first 7 miles starting at the back of the wave? Like did you find yourself overly blocked in (I know you would starting in the middle of the wave too!).
I'm kinda in between what you did and leave it a minute or 2 after gun and starting at back of wave 1 or maybe even stay where I am and move up and go at the head of wave 2.

Treviso wrote: »

Might see you at the back of Wave 1 then J. My plan at the moment is to wait at the back of wave 1 and go with the head of wave 2 with 3.30 pacers. Will leave them go a bit for the first 7 miles and then try to slowly catch them

My plan is similar to yours regards the 7 or 8 miles except im starting in wave 2 so will place myself at back of pacers i think

skyblue46 wrote: »

I had no real problems with congestion. That being said I was super relaxed on the day in relation to pace. I just went with the flow. I considered every occasion that I was going slower than planned was more energy being saved for the crunch part of the day. I wasn't running to a pace band so that stress wasn't there.

Super relaxed on the day always helps with a pb

ooter wrote: »

training has gone well for me and I reckon i'm definitely in 3:20 shape, but my PB is 3:14 and i'm wondering whether to have a crack at it.

this is my thinking and my plan for the first half of the race, just go with the flow (3:20 pacers) and don't give it much/any thought, if i'm feeling good at half way kick on and see where it takes me. anyone think this is a good strategy or is it virtually unheard of to run a 6+ minute negative split?
if there were 3:15 pacers it'd be perfect but unfortunately not.

Last year I ran a 5 minute negative split last year after starting with the 3:20 pacers, finished just under 3:10. I sped up after mile 7.

In 2017 I ran a small negative split after starting with the 3:20 pacers, finished in 3:14. I sped up after mile 7, but not as much and had a bit of a slow down towards the end.

Strava for both:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1932215237

https://www.strava.com/activities/1251988708

So I think it's a great strategy, for the first 7 miles anyway

Singer wrote: »

Last year I ran a 5 minute negative split last year after starting with the 3:20 pacers, finished just under 3:10. I sped up after mile 7.

In 2017 I ran a small negative split after starting with the 3:20 pacers, finished in 3:14. I sped up after mile 7, but not as much and had a bit of a slow down towards the end.

Strava for both:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1932215237

https://www.strava.com/activities/1251988708

So I think it's a great strategy, for the first 7 miles anyway

yeah a slower first 7 is definitely the way to go, will see how i'm feeling at that point. well done on the 5 minute NS by the way.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Hoping to go from 3:51 (DCM) to 3:45 for Cincinnati in May. They don't have pacer info up for 2019, but for 2018 the 3:50 pacers ran @ 8:47, whilst 3:45 hit @8:35, respectively. http://flyingpigmarathon.com/flying-pig-marathon-and-half-marathon-pace-team/ I'll probably start out with the 3:50s for a good chunk of the race.

I'm on week 2/14 of the grads intermediate plan. At current easy pace, with the longest lsr being 3 hours, I'm probably not gonna go beyond 16 miles ish. I used this plan for Connemara 2018 and didn't go beyond that mileage (15.86, looking back) in long runs. Am I concerned about nothing? I don't regard Conn as having being painful, I only ran 4:30, though.

From a cardio point of view, most certainly yes you will be as developed as any. Remember Elites are only doing 2-2.30 min for long runs in general the only difference is they cover more ground in that time.

From a bio-mechanical point of view you won't have as much conditioning of longer time on your feet vs others however this is compensated by the fact that you will probably have more cumulative mileage throughout the weeks as well as the fact you won't be in an under recovered state between long runs increasing injury and illness risk so shouldn't (theorectically) miss as much training in the grand scheme of things.

This plan was developed to make you the best athlete possible on the day rather than the fastest you can possibly do on that day. Generally the plan is designed with a view of long term development cycle on cycle.

It's a similar approach I have used for on of my athletes who has gone 3.28, 3.16, 3.03 in recent cycles. Admittedly could have probably trained him harder the first time around and if he managed to hold up with no injuries might have got 3.24-3.25 but ultimately I knew that sustainably he would have ended up in a plateau with injury etc in around the 3.20 mark because the adequate foundations weren't put in place.

(Admittedly I am bias on the plan )

My first time posting on this thread I think, not sure if you what I plan to do is truly improving but here goes. Training for Dublin this year, my last marathon I raced on my own steam was back in 2018 where I recorded 3:51:40. In 2019 I ran Dublin with my wife to support her on her first marathon (5:38).

My marathon pb is even further back, in 2017 I got 3:43:41 in Tralee. This year I am training for sub 3:50 for Dublin so it's not planned to be an improvement on my pb as it's my first marathon proper in 4 years it's hopefully the first step in the right direction to tackle my pb at another time.

Planning to use Hanson's Beginner Plan for this. I used it last year to train for Manchester last summer/autumn and after 8 weeks I stopped as I had a shin issue (not shin splits but something that felt like bruising) and with the hassles of traveling at the time I let it go. This time around carrying a bit less weight (about 5kgs down over the last 6 months) and more base mileage...and hopefully pace my training better as I was not doing the easy stuff correctly at all.

I did consider it alright D but I'd like to be conservative on my return to marathon running, mileage wise I'm probably more towards the beginner side of things. Currently averaging around 30mpw. I had a look at this video from Luke Humphrey (on Choosing between beginner and advanced marathon plans) and found it to be pretty persuasive as to which side of things I'd currently fall.

I am going to give DCM another twirl this October hopefully. Ran 3:26 back in 2018 on my first marathon using the Meno plan. Enjoyed it all.

Am thinking of going for the same sub 3:30 target this time around, and being 4 years further into my 40s I reckon that will constitute improvement. I had started training for a virtual last year but picked up an injury around September. I don't think my heart was ever really in it, and certainly my eating and drinking habits didn't help. Will aim to be "cleaner" this time around!

Am heading away for two weeks at the start of July, so that will scupper up those two weeks a bit. I will get some runs in, but not to the extent the plan is asking for. Was wondering how others might have fared with a delayed start to a training plan (will essentially be 15 week plan by the time I get started)

Thanks for reviving this thread.

I'll be starting Hanson's advanced plan next week for Dublin and will also be going for sub 3:20 (current PB is 3:22 in 2019). Away for a couple of weeks in July so I'm moving week 2/3 to 1/2. Hopefully that will be it as far as tinkering goes.

Wow that'll be a massive jump, fantastic putting it out there. I've actually added a 22 miler and like you a lot more MP miles during long runs although maybe not quite to the same extent.

Perfect timing. The mentored 2019 was invaluable to me during my first Marathon, if this one is half as useful I will be delighted.

So I've run two non-virtual marathons, DCM 2019(3.59) and Manchester 2022(3.18). I followed the Boards plan for the DCM 2019 and a free onlin BAA plan for Manchester this year. With the volume of information on here I was tempted to try a Daniels for the DCM22 but eventually and out of sheer laziness I decided to redo the BAA plan I used last winter for the Manchester Marathon. link to a weekly schedule for DCM below. I have pace ranges on the second sheet for 3.00 to 3.15 marathon that go with the plan.

Had some small injuries lately that pissed me off and stopped me runnnning as much as Id like, still carrying some small hip pain. To alleviate this and hopefully prevent a problem I've introduced stretching and strenght work for the hip and knee into my routine(about 10 15 minutes per day)

I use a Coros watch with all the coros features and log on strava, good and bad days https://www.strava.com/athletes/24133081

My A goal is sub 3.10 with sub 3.20 B goal for this Dublin Marathon. If I stay fit and injury free I reckon I have a good chance of gettiing over the line and landing a Boston Qualifier for 2024(I will be 50 by then so sub 3.25 will do it).

• Things I struggle with - Pacing
• Things that help - Im stubborn as a mule

Good luck to all of you pure legends on this journey.

Thanks for posting that....good perspective and experience there.

Do you schedule races into that approach?

There's a 10 mile race coming up near me in a few weeks that I'd like to do as an early benchmark....it obviously wouldn't fit into any defined "plan" as such.

Also, would be interested in people's thoughts on introducing "super" shoes...

I've had a pair of Vaporflys sitting in a box for over a year and have been saving them for a marathon....would you advise wearing them for a half/10 Miler first before rocking up to the start line?

I have a pair of Zoom Flys as well that I've worn a few times for races <10K