Marathon Improvers Thread.

Lazare

This morning's 10k was pretty important. Haven't raced 10k since 2019, PB is a TT from 2020, a narrow PB over 2019.

Have a lot of 10k effort workouts coming up in the block so needed that info.

Have been spending the last few months a little deflated thinking I had peaked in 2019/20 Thinking is this it, do I need to just accept it and adjust expectations.

Today was a real confidence boost. Was only 20 seconds outside my best on a tougher course in tougher conditions. Plus I had a lot of specific stuff in the legs then and pretty much none now.

Delighted. Onwards.

Murph_D

You’re a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349477#Comment_119349477

You’re a glass half full man, which is something I might learn from. My own PB is ‘debatable’ given short/long course measurement but I wouldn’t have been much more than 20 secs outside it either, and you’re right, that’s a decent performance in the conditions.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349505#Comment_119349505

I did think you were a little hard on yourself D (Strava).

Was great bumping into you today.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349477#Comment_119349477

Well done C. Fantastic to see you back. You've been chugging away quietly in the background getting the miles in when you can, and it's fantastic to see it pay off and for things to start to click back into place for you again. It'll be great to track your journey to DCM. I found HR a huge benefit last year when marathon training and learnt a lot about what sort of effort I can maintain for that extended period of time. I don't know about running to a specific HR on the day (I'd advise not being a slave to anything you need technology to tell you) but I definitely regret not wearing my HR strap on the day, it would be interesting to have the stats now. Anyways good luck with the journey, enjoy it!

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352222#Comment_119352222

Thanks so much E.

Good to feel on track.

I am certainly rethinking the idea based on feedback in here. Maybe it's best to use it in more of a supplementary sense.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352534#Comment_119352534

How much attention were you paying to HR in yesterday's race, as a matter of interest?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353117#Comment_119353117

Believe it or not, I was in the middle of my warm up with a few mins to the gun when I realised I left the strap in bag drop.

Was distracted a lot helping my wife navigate things.

I feel I've gotten a really good feel for the effort level though.

I'll work off pace for the first couple of sessions and get HR data from that.

event

First time posting here myself, great thread. 

I have done about 8 or 9 marathons at this stage. Started in 2013 at 03:58 and by 2017 got it down to 3:43. Couldnt budge it from that but last year in the Mullingar Marathon mind I got it down to 03:41, was over the moon as was a stressful year and hadnt the best training. 

I've seen good progression in my other distances. 

In April I got my 10k down to 42:48 and in September last year I got my 5k to 20:19

The big one this year though was my half marathon time. I had it at 1:38 in 2015 and couldnt get close to it for years.

Signed up to the newry half at end of May and came home in 1:33:59, was delighted. 

If I could get 03:39 in DCM I'd be over the moon. 

I got COVID there 2 weeks ago but doesnt seem to have affected me much (2nd time having it) so last week was my first week of real marathon training. Logged 39 miles, happy with that. For my long runs, I do a lot of them in the mountains for elevation (I live in north Louth so loads here) as I feel this is what really helped me for the half time. And I'd do plenty of elevation in general (I think). IN the 39 miles last week there were 4291 feet of elevation gain

I bought a training plan a while ago from Evan Scully so have sort of adapted that and created my own version. 

Will check in here when I remember and update as to how going. I havent any other races planned between now and DCM, will need to book a half at some point. 

FinnC

Hi event,

Are you not selling yourself a bit short aiming for a 3:39 Marathon? ( not that there is anything wrong with a 3:39 marathon btw)

Your times suggest you being capable of a much faster Marathon imo.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354938#Comment_119354938

Agree with this - your times are very close to mine and I'll be aiming at 3:20ish. I find twice the half time plus 14 minutes is achievable, and have finally got the half down to 1:33:xx

While you wouldn't necessarily expect an inexperienced runner to be able to convert to equivalent marathon times, someone with your vast experience should be able to do it - chances are you're overdoing the training paces. The hills should stand to you alright, but not if you're trying to hit paces designed for the flat!

event

Yeah maybe. I feel at times I dont push myself enough, but I think in the back of my head I am always slightly worried about an injury or just not being able for it. Now one caveat about the 5k, 10k and half times is the courses were all very flat, like pancake. I've thought I could maybe go for sub 3:30. I will know more by end of August I think, if I am still keep up the mileage (August is a busy month socially tbf) and will look at my pacings then

Kellygirl

Been following this thread for the last few weeks and enjoying it and hoping to add myself to the marathons improvers list! I’ve run 6 or 7 marathons and a trail ultra last year. I’m registered for Dublin and my PB is 4:03:04 from there in 2019. I recently did 1:45:25 in Cork Half so hoping I can maybe do 3:50 in Dublin but definitely finally go sub 4 anyway. I’m with the coach who got me the PB in 2019 again and work really well with her. I’ve been with her since January but took things easy since Cork and went on holidays so all just easy running for June and the start of July. Official training started yesterday again. Delighted to be back doing sessions.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357345#Comment_119357345

That's the challenge for the marathon improver, though, isn't it? Your race times tell you what you're capable of - so you go out and do what you have to do to carry it through to the marathon distance - a true challenge if you aim to get the most out of yourself. That's one of the main points of this thread IMO. Settling for a safe PB that's way inside your capability isn't what we are all about here! 😁

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362148#Comment_119362148

Yeah. Fair point. Thats the attitude I took for the half. P1ss or get off the pot and it worked out. I blew up in DCM in 2014 and 2017 so think im always conscious of that happening again. But can't think like that either.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362364#Comment_119362364

Its normal to be apprehensive especially with Marathons. I reckon the battle in the head is a very close second to the training in achieving these goals. I cant offer any advise on how to get over it as everyone is different but I will say this, when you've done it(which you will) the next step will not look as hard. Best of luck in this block. May all your running be dog and injury free

chabsey

Wouldn't mind joining in here as well. Have done 4 marathons, fastest was Dublin 2018 (3:15) , am signed up to both Dublin and Amsterdam this year. Two weeks between so we'll see how that works out. Am forced to do the first half of my training on a treadmill this year but so far so good. No specific time in mind, currently aiming for something quicker than 3:15 but am only doing three sessions a week so again, we'll see.

To get my 2018 time I followed Hanson's method and it worked perfectly - I aimed for a 4:37 per km time and that's exactly what I got. Downside was there was training 5 days a week and I just don't have the time this time around. So naturally the idea is to do less training and expect a faster time, what could possibly go wrong?

event

Life got in the way last week (brother was home from spain) so didnt get many miles in, only did 2 sessions. And easy 5m and a tempo session of 1m WU, 5 x 1m (60s rest) and 1m CD. Also had a game of football in there.

This week will be much better hopefully.

I am thinking of following the 10/10/10 strategy for DCM this year. Have done it in last 2 marathons and it worked well(ish). Last one I suffered badly in last few miles but it was because of the fueling strategy more than anything there.

For anyone unaware, its about breaking the race in to 3 sections. The first ten miles, the second 10 miles and the last 10k.

You run the first 10 at a slightly slower than goal pace, the next 10 you hit goal marathon pace then the last 10k, you let it out. People define it as the first 10 with your head, the second 10 with your training and the last 10 with your heart.

If I wanted to do it and break 3:30 it would look like this

1st 10 at 8:05 pace - 1:20:50

2nd 10 at 08:00 pace - 1:20:00

Last 10k at 07:40 pace - 47:38

That gets you home in 3:28:28. Obviously you wont run the racing line so might go a bit longer, might need to tighten up some of those times. But is an interesting way to plan imo

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388481#Comment_119388481

Sounds interesting but is it not a big jump from 8:00min/m to 7:40min/m when you have 20miles in your legs? I'd be afraid that would be too big of an ask, you would want to be running well within yourself at 8-8:05 and even then when you have run 20miles at a certain pace it could be hard to find that bit extra to lift your pace.

Swashbuckler

I had great plans initially for race strategy for my debut marathon in May. In the end the strategy was to get attached to the pacer and hang on for dear life. I know not everyone has the benefit of a pacer but one thing is for sure, I wasn't gonna be able to pick up the pace in the last 10k. I'd agree with ariana, you'd probably want to be running well within yourself for the first ten miles to be able to progressively pick it up .

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388656#Comment_119388656

Oh it can be risky. And you need to train for it. So in your LSRs you replicate it, on a 20 miler you run the second 10 miles quicker than the first etc

I've tried it in my last two and it worked in DCM, didnt in the Mullingar one cos I messed up the nutrition

DCM

First 10 - 1 hr 25 mins 57 seconds - 08:36 min miles

Second 10 - 1 hr 24 mins 46 seconds - 08:29 min miles

Last 10 - 52 mins 26s - 08:26 min miles

Didnt push it as much as I could have but it can certainly work if you train to it.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389393#Comment_119389393

Agree with the others above - if you are on the edge, I don't think you can really expect to pick up the last 10k to that extent. I'd always aim for an even pace myself and a very slight negative split - which in reality would feel like a quite a big pick up psychologically in the second half, although I don't know because I have never achieved it!

I do think 10/10/10 is a good idea psychologically for breaking the race down into manageable chunks though, even if you run them all at the same pace, and even a slight pick up towards the end should get you under your target - assuming you are pacing to the distance markers, not your watch, which is a very important thing to do.

Unthought Known

Having a bit of a nightmare with my plan (Hanson's advanced) at the moment. I knew I wouldn't get all the runs in over the last 3 weeks with travelling, concerts and holiday, but Covid meant I took a full 9 days off running.

Just getting back to feeling good on my runs and tonight I managed to smash a mirror onto my toe! Probably only a day or two rest, the cut didn't turn out too bad, but I'm craving some consistency.

event

Solid week last week for me, 39 miles in total. Break down was

Easy 6m

7m session (2m WU, 8 x .5m, 1m CD)

Easy 5m

Quick 6m

15m LSR

Cartman78

That's a nice looking week at this stage...good going.

I'm still motoring along ok but mileage has fallen off a bit (the full gory details are over on my log).

If I was trying to put a positive spin on it...I would say that my current time pressures are ensuring that I'm not overtraining so that's something I guess 😉

I think when the kids are back in school and we're back in a routine I'll be able to plan things a bit better

event

Got 37m in last week across 4 days

7m easy

8m session (2m WU, 3m @ 07:45, 180s, 2m @ 07:18, 120s, 1m @ 06:39)

5m easy

17m LSR

For next two weekends I think I will struggle to get LSRs in so probably slightly ahead of myself as I could see that happening

woody1

interesting thread this,

i am just starting into a 12 week block for dcm this week

but i have been iron distance triathlon training since january, so i have plenty of mileage done, the race was 10 days ago and i ran the marathon in 4.11 relatively comfortably

last half marathon i did was in the midst of training so i kept it as a tempo run and came in at 1.33 again fairly comfortably, with a little but of a push in the last km , half pb from almost a year ago is 1.31 , very flat course

ran on saturday after a week off and was actualy surprised at how heavy the legs were, so im probably going to take the next 2 weeks fairly handy and just cherry pick from the plan what suits me and probably leave a few sessions altogether

previous dcms have been 4.45 ( legs blew about halfway ) and 4.01

i was considering around 3.40 ish , but it seems from this thread that i should be aiming to go faster

FinnC

I think you should be aiming for a 3:20 at the very minimum.

Be careful jumping straight into Marathon training though. A full Ironman needs loads of recovery. You’ll have a massive aerobic base built up though from all the training though so if you are considering Dublin as a marathon I think you’d be good to go with 8-9 weeks of training. Take it easy for the next few weeks then start your training block for the Marathon.

Cartman78

80 days until DCM 😲😮😲😮

Finally got a half decent long run in last night....26K on the flat plains of UL.

It was hot but plenty of shade on offer on my route so I was relatively comfortable...the main distraction was the international lacrosse tournament taking place!

Cartman78

Bit quiet in here.... how's everyone getting on??

Have ye all improved and migrated to the Sub 3 thread ;-)

Got a new club singlet today, bulk ordered some SIS Gels and will be signing up for Charleville in the next few days so all locked in for DCM.

Murph_D

Good time to bring up the gels question I suppose - I think getting the nutrition right is a big part of a successful race, especially if you are trying to shave off just a minute or two to hit a target. I'll be practicing with shot bloks and other chewable this year if anyone has any suggestions on that front. I always struggle with the regular gels - can never get enough of it into me...