Marathon Improvers Thread.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816188#Comment_119816188

I'm debating do the same, I've done Manchester in 2021 and really enjoyed it.

We stayed in Holiday Inn Express TRAFFORDCITY and flew home straight after it.

The hotel was grand we got a taxi to the start line which was maybe 15 mins away. The breakfast was exactly what we needed.

It's based in the car park of Trafford Centre, where there are hundreds of restaurants we went with pizza and then into the cinema.

Expo was the Saturday, it was only after Covid so couldn't really give a fair judgment on it.

event

What's the attraction of Manchester?

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816302#Comment_119816302

Flattest Marathon in the UK apparently also the 2nd biggest outside of London in the UK and up there with some of biggest attendance in Europe. Seems like a good enough reason to do it imo.

Plus I might run it in a Liverpool shirt 😜

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816188#Comment_119816188

Not much to recommend, the marathon is amazing, Manchester is amazing but the mitre hotel( were we stayed this year) - Fawlty towers on steroids . Do not book. Public transport is very good so don't worry if your not smack bang in the city. You'll love it. The expo was one table with a few hats and a half empty hoka stall. Nothing of note

Cartman78

Manchester is supposedly fast and flat....know a couple of lads from my club that specifically went there to successfully run sub-3.

I'm not sure when/if I'll do another marathon tbh....the thoughts of another training block makes me feel queasy now tbh.

I made a decent-ish improvement I guess (3:24 in 2019 to 3:16 yesterday) but I think to go beyond that I'd probably need to push on considerably in terms of mileage and cutting more corners with family activities etc.

Not sure if I'm prepared to do that in the short to medium term but I have a bunch of targets over shorter distances that seem achievable so that should keep me busy

racersedge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816302#Comment_119816302

Short hop across the water, so plenty of travel options. Solid public transport options from the airport to the city center and easy to get around, good Pb route. Probably a bonus if your a Manchester footie fan! Decent shopping options if you have to please the other half with the trip!

Did it myself and enjoyed it. Good support around it (although pales in comparison to Dublin mind you) so I’ve got fond memories!

As for hotel recommendations, I stayed in the newest Motel One in St. Peters Square (I think) which is literally outside the tram line that takes you down to Trafford (there are a few other options with them). Liked the hotel myself, even if they didn’t have hot breakfast.

Lazare

Jesus, yiz have me thinking about attacking a BQ at Manchester here.

woody1

Ran 3.46 all was going well up to 30k ish even ran a couple of half decent kms after that.. was on for 3.34 but the writing was on the wall too and once 3.30 something was gone i didn't really care ...from 30 to the end I walked the water stations for a minute got up the hills very slowly surprisingly up heartbreak pretty well and slowed more coming to the finish so the last 12k averaged 6 min kms overall rather than low 5s ... found it warm was sweating heavily from very early on hamstring was threatening to cramp from about 15k but never did quads started to go round the rds everything went after the finish never cramped so much before.. but reading a lot about people cramping here.... not thrilled with 3.46 but not distraught either I can see where the problems are and I have an idea where to improve things ..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816319#Comment_119816319

Hah. I've been living in Manchester the past 6 years. You'll be a brave man running past the Etihad and Old Trafford wearing that jersey.

event

Anyone do much S&C work? This might be the off season I actually do it. Anyone any pointers or can point me in the right direction?

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816998#Comment_119816998

They’ll have to be able to run at sub 3 pace to catch me 😜

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815560#Comment_119815560

Well definitely something there to be working on. Hydration/nutrition was a key part of my own PB this year. If you're stopping to pee you're drinking too much. Can't comment on the salt tablets as Ive never used them as cramp has fortunately not been an issue for me. Congrats on the PB.

event

The stopping to pee happens regardless. Had a kidney issue as a kid and as a result I have to go to the bathroom all the time. It looks very suss on a night out, haha.

I had my fueling right (energy wise) but not electrolytes/salt. And that's been last two marathons I've cramped bad. It's weird cos I have never cramped in training or LSR. In training most I've taken is 2 or 3 salt tabs cos that's all I need. Convinced it was my reaction to the heat. HR at 170 after 2 miles and didn't really come back down. Will look back over it but I think next year will only be going for 4 hours, told a mate I'd run it with him. Might look at another in Ireland myself to try a PB on

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119817175#Comment_119817175

Yes I do a lot and it has made a massive difference to my running. I started it about 1.5 years ago. A guy I know has set up an app called Running Buddy that is all about S&C programs for runners if you want to check it out. His Instagram is oldquarterphysiotherapy and the Instagram page for the app is runningbuddytraining. I haven’t registered as I have my own program that I work away on but I totally trust what he has to say. He’s good at what he does.

event

Want to say thanks to everyone in here too.

When I was planning DCM, my goal was a PB and under 3:40 if I could. PB was 3:41. Loads of ye here told me to go for sub 3:30. I trained for it and in the end, didnt get it. But I got my PB and I got under 3:40. I am convinced if I had only trained with 3:40 in mind, I wouldnt have gotten it on Sunday. The weather and everything combined would have saw me finish in about 3:45 I reckon. Only for the pushing and advice in here, I definitely wouldnt have a PB to my name.

I am signing up to next year anyway but not sure I will race it. Mate of mine gonna do it and he reckons he will do 4 hours so will train again as if going for 3:30 but will run with him on the day. He's gonna be fundraising for a hospital as his kid is sick so thats a bit more important. Might find another (flatter) marathon in Ireland next year to race.

Unknownability

Anyone experience with the following marathons Edinburgh, Paris or Hamburg?

It's between then and Manchester (which I've already run) for a Spring marathon.

Murph_D

Haven't run any of them but a friend has run Hamburg and was very impressed - flat course, great road surfaces (at the time, a few years ago). It's a great city, was there this summer, quite Berlin-like in many ways. It's definitely the one I would pick out of those three.

event

No idea on the route. But Edinburgh is a very hilly city in general

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823391#Comment_119823391

That's the one I'm leaning towards but the comments in the Hamburg marathon thread seem to suggest it's not actually that flat 🤔.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823412#Comment_119823412

The elevation is very favourable, organisation seems to let it down though.

boydkev

Now the dust has settled on my DCM, Did not go to plan but still came away with a PB 3:16:19. Had issues with my Hips from mile 21. But felt comfortable while i was with the 3:10 pacers.

I think i know why i had issues with my Hips, Ran the Eco Trail 80k 6 weeks ago, then was out with covid for nearly 2 weeks so lost out on speedwork training before dublin, but felt strong and all my runs leading up to dublin felt great and comfortable. I think the faster pace and longer stride during sunday was too much.

Dont think i will do Dublin again but might have a crack at cork (Home City) as i got a early bird entry for the full. Done the half 3 time before.

How does the cork marathon compare to the Dublin, Is it a course i could go Sub 3 if i had a good training block?

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823535#Comment_119823535

Sorry to hear it didn’t go to plan though congrats on the PB.

Cork is a funny one. Definitely much flatter than Dublin. The only hills really are coming out of the tunnel and then the bits from mile 17 to 21 or so but it’s just where they come on the route really. Dublin has way more long drags. The biggest problem with Cork is the weather I think the June bank holiday weekend. It could be roasting has been some years.

Classic21

After the course profile, the organisation of the event is very important. The ideal thing is to have everything available within the marathon start/finish area.

I have only ran one foreign marathon and I would do it again.

In Frankfurt this week everything was contained within the building/complex:

Number collection is available on race morning. This can only be done for a marathon if there is adequate infrastructure to accommodate.

Expo open until 5pm race day. (If you are into it)

Family/friends can stay with you until the last minute even if you use the bag drop.

Free transport around the city on race day.

A tram station in the basement of the marathon finish area

A proper place to change after the race and not outside on the steps of a building. We have been lucky in Dublin for a few years that the weather has been good but a wet race day make’s changing afterwards miserable.

My favourite thing was hot showers after the race and not in a location off site but in the same building. This was brilliant as I was travelling home after the race. It’s one of the things that annoys me about Dublin that you need to pay even more to an already overpriced hotel to go back for a shower.

Some things are not to everyone’s liking:

water in cups

pay for T-shirt

Who would have thought that the Germans were good at organising things ;)

Wottle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823624#Comment_119823624

sounds great, have you a Strava link to your run to check out the course profile?

I'm definitely not doing Dublin next year.

Classic21

Just sent on DM

Unthought Known

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823447#Comment_119823447

Looks similar to London

event

Wanted to ask ye all, what training plans/programs did you use for this year anyway.

Just realised I bought the book 80/20 Running by Matt Fitzgerald a year or so ago but never actually did it. Anyone used that plan before for a marathon?

Unthought Known

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828396#Comment_119828396

I bought the same book this year but haven't read it yet. I plan to do so before starting the next training block.

This year I used Meno's plan for Boston which is great with some good sessions on Wednesdays and long runs, some "with stuff", on Sundays. You need to be disciplined though as only 3 runs pw are given and you decide on rest or easy runs the other days. Looking back on my Boston plan I had too many 5 mile easy runs whereas I could have maybe extended them on Saturdays to tire me more for the long Sunday run.

I used Hansons advanced for Dublin. Apart from a covid break in July and a minor niggle in September I think I hit every session and really enjoyed it. Easily PB'd the HM in September at >30s per mile faster than goal marathon pace so thought I was a shoe-in for my DCM target. Not really sure how I faded so badly last Sunday, but I wouldn't put it down to the plan (used Hansons in Manchester '19, with an injury a few weeks out, and came in a couple of minues under my target).

Back running today. Legs ok. Smashing day for it after non stop rain yesterday. Probably get out again on Sunday and then slowly ease back into 5 days a week. Just gonna do easy miles for the rest of the year before picking something for next year

Sandwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828396#Comment_119828396

Hansons for me as well. It delivered a 13 min PB and brought me exactly to my goal time. I'll follow it again for Berlin next year, all being well.

event

Looking hansons up there online. Is the longest run 16 miles?

Sandwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829497#Comment_119829497

It is. But it makes sense in the context of the plan. Have a read through the Hansons Method thread or grab a copy of the book if you're curious to learn more. Lots of people on here have used it to great success.

chabsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829535#Comment_119829535

Can recommend the book - it has loads of info in it covering the plans (obviously) but also nutrition, s&c etc.

Sandwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119829544#Comment_119829544

Yeah, I'd say it's probably the most readable of the well known training books that I've encountered. Daniels is very heavy going and Pfitz falls somewhere in the middle.

event

Cool. Ill read this 80/20 one, maybe test it on a 10k next year and see if I wanna move to Hanson

Lazare

I used a Bob Williams Sub 3 plan from Noakes' 'Lore Of Running'

I adapted it slightly for my 3:20 target, didn't do the monster long runs.

I really loved it, the structure was fantastic and incredibly simple.

It sounds like it had some similarities to Hanson. Six days a week with stuff on Tues and Thurs and a long run on Saturday.

Reps <800 were at 5k pace, 800, 1k and mile rep workouts at 10k.

Some Tempo and MP stuff too. The long runs were 30 - 40 secs slower than MP.

Every Mon and Wed were a 5 mile easy run, throughout the block. Rest every Friday.

Loved doing the long run on a Saturday, Sunday was always a short recovery jog. Meant I could relax and enjoy Saturday evenings.

I've done a Daniels plan before and the complexity of the workouts used to drive me nuts. Was a chore setting them up on the watch.

This time I could glance at the week ahead and know exactly where I was at, without needing to check back on it. Setting up the following day's workout took seconds.

Mileage topped out at 52.5.

I would highly recommend it.

Having said that, I'll be using Hanson for my next M block.

cullenswood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828819#Comment_119828819

I used Meno's plan also, having used it previously 4 years ago. I love the simplicity of it and the fact that I only run 4 days the majority of the weeks.

I felt fully prepared after it.

I can't comment on other plans though as have never used them.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830084#Comment_119830084

Very interesting and as you mentioned has some similarities with Hanson.

I have all the major running books and Jack Daniels is the only one that I've had no interest in reading after glancing through it. It's seems way too technical.

On the issue of setting a work out on your watch. I purchased the Hanson Plan on Final Surge and that automatically sends the work outs to your watch with no fiddling around. Think it might have been $20 or so.

Swashbuckler

Jack Daniels isn't half as technical as one would think. The 2Q plan especially has lots of flexibility. Got me a sub 3 first time out but not without struggles on the day. (May be nothing to do with the plan)

DeepBlue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831680#Comment_119831680

Your marathon log demystified Jack Daniels for me. It does look like Greek at first glance and needs a bit of decoding but after that it's straightforward enough.

Haven't actually used any of the plans yet though although probably will pick out some 5k/10k plan once recovery after the current marathon block is over.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831793#Comment_119831793

I recently finished 80/20 and maybe because of what I had read before I started, the plans didn't really interest me. While Hanson seems to be popular around here, I am only a couple of chapters into Daniels Running Formula. I signed up to a 10 mile in early March and at this moment plan on using one of the Daniels plans.

I am only running a year and just came though the boards novice marathon program. I've been toying with starting a log, and this might be the reason - help me figure out and follow through to something tangible using a more well known program.

deconduo

I enjoyed reading the Jack Daniels book as it gives a lot of theory and science behind the running, why the target paces are important etc. The workouts make sense after reading the first half. He emphasises that its important to take the base plans and tweak as required for you own needs, rather than trying to have a one-size-fits-all type approach. The 2Q plans especially are super flexible and can fit into any crazy work schedule you might have.

There's also two things that people seem to miss when looking at the 2Q plans (I've seen a few reports on Reddit etc. where people have struggled with the plans after missing these in the book):

• You're supposed to start at VDOT-2 paces 18 weeks out, then move to VDOT-1 paces 12 weeks out, and finally VDOT target paces 6 weeks. Don't try running all the workouts at your target pace from day 1.
• A number of workouts are flagged as optional. If you're not up for it on the day, its ok to replace them with easy runs.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119831793#Comment_119831793

That would have been a far better log title - Demystifying Jack Daniels. Feck.

Murph_D

Daniels is a great book IMO - the guy is a giant of the sport, a highly esteemed sports scientist and an Olympic coach. Many other coaches (Pfitzinger, Hanson, Fitzgerald etc.) draw a lot on his theories and approach. Reading the book will stand to you, I think you train much better when you understand what each workout is trying to do, as this (eventually) gives you the confidence to adjust the plans to suit your own circumstances - something we all tend to do, but with vastly different levels of success!

Lazare

Daniels is a legend, for sure, and for anyone wishing to train smart his theories and principles are pretty much vital.

I just hated being still up at 1am on a Tuesday entering all the Ts and Ms and Rs in the right order when I should have been asleep at 10 😃

coogy

Hey folks, first-time poster on this thread (I think) and looking for a bit of advice.

Used the Boards Novices Plan in 2018 and the Graduates Plan in 2019, both doing exactly what I expected them to.

After DCM 2019, I went down the coaching route and had a tailored schedule sent to me every week for about a year and a half. Exactly how tailored it was, I couldn't say but I did make vast improvements in several distances.

As I've yet to follow any of the well known training plans that are mentioned in some of the posts above, I still feel like something of a novice in this area.

Now with my entry for DCM 2023 secured, it's time to start shopping around for a training plan. Am planning to to the Bohermeen half in March and perhaps a 10k or 10 mile later in the year before the marathon training kicks in. For the last couple of months I have been using the old plans I used when I had the running coach but with slight tweaks made to some of the session paces. Then I started wondering if I could do the same with the Boards Graduate Plan and adapt it to my current fitness.

I am aware that there are many different plans out there but I honestly don't know where to start looking or know which one would be most suited to me.

Would welcome anyone's thoughts on this!!

The Black Oil

The Meno plan is worth a shot. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iqh0HwS7Tg0CIUOs8LPvyGiPaSKI1LxP0DIV8Vuazm8/edit#gid=906928231

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969529#Comment_119969529

You would have made big gains from consistent training regardless of the plan or coach, and that should continue for a few years yet without you having to do anything particularly special. So I’d just be trying to find an approach with sessions you like doing. At a similar stage of my own ‘career’ I was into P&D but I don’t think it makes much difference as long as you get out there regularly and put in decent mileage at appropriate paces. It’s all about building that aerobic engine.

Mr. Guappa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969529#Comment_119969529

As another fortunate enough to get a DCM entry for next year, I've also been looking at various plans and what might suit me (in truth I've been looking at plans for much longer than I've had a marathon entry 😉).

Over the last while I've come to realise what type of structure I curently like/need in a plan and will choose a plan accordingly.

I've noticed you seem to be enjoying a Sunday group long run recently - so maybe a plan that allows you to incorporate that group run each/most weeks should be considered?

coogy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970526#Comment_119970526

Hi A, yeah the hornet's nest of what plan to choose is always something that I come back to time and again. Especially when I see

As for what 'suits me' best, this is where the head-scratching begins as the plans I've followed over the last four years have been quite similar in terms of structure (running five out of seven days with two session days factored in). I don't think I'd be too keen to move away from this too much as it's easy enough for me to work into my daily routine. I think just knowing that there are so many different types of training plans out there is what's making me wonder if the one that I'm using is the 'right one' but as @Murph_D says above (thanks D!), getting the weekly mileage in, while running at appropriate paces is key.

The Sunday long runs with the group have been great too and the group I run with don't really have a set number of miles (minimum 10, some guys add on a few miles at the end depending on their own training) and you can do as many or as few as you like.