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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You need to look closer into your data, I posted the mistake you're making pages ago, but like everything else, it's gone way over your head. If anyone else wants to know, PM me. You're going to be doing the work from now on :)

    (and I presume you have already calculated your refute to my back of the envelope calculation that is correct to about 1% which is way above your required threshold for showing efficacy on severity).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Interesting how easy it is to get some people out of the woodwork.

    Vaccines are not dangerous, they do have risks associates with them like everything does, but that risk is far lower than the disease risk in all cases.

    Paracetamol has risks, but only an idiot would call it dangerous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    @Capra I hear you, I should be on the balloon by Wednesday according to the posters who are so behind on the science. I'm unvaccinated and through the worst of it. Had the headache Sunday felt like I had food poisoning until Monday. Thought that what it was, decided to do a test last night after being told via text I was a close contact. Tested positive late last night. Bit foggy today but feeling more energetic and able to run up the stairs again. Luckily I didn't take the vaccine, because I'd have preferred someone who wanted one or needs it more than I to take it. I trusted my immune system and it's working way better than my close friends who were vaccinated. They were floored by omnicron, and some were absolutely shattered for nearly a week after the 2nd dose of the double dose vaccine.

    Was my symptoms worth getting the vaccines for ?

    That's a cathartic no, I'm a loner anyhow and outside a lot of the day. Caught it from a gathering last week supposedly.

    Look you'll get a few posters here trying to break your will or ability to express your opinions and at the start you think it's personal. But its not, some posters can't conduct themselves discussing the subject matter.

    Just rise above it, hit the ignore button and don't even respond to them. I've hit it a few times and I haven't a clue what they're posting now and we no longer communicate.

    Don't leave the discussion, you're posting sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I'm well aware of how you guys twist everything and play pingpong and dragging people into a maze of bamboozle and hedonistic discussions. Zig zags of absolute mayhem and trying to create chaos in order to put people off discussing these concerns.

    Exactly. They've become really poor at hiding the fact that they are here purely to frustrate and clog the discussion because they don't want a conspiracy forum on boards. The fact that dissenting views don't get moderated here disgusts them so they've taken it upon themselves to monitor the threads 24/7 and spam with paragraph heavy drivel to the point that it's impossible to read anything of interest or get any meaningful debate going.

    A thread was started in the feedback forum last year hoping to address the 10 or so conspiracy-haters that camp out here. Their tactics were exposed humiliatingly but sadly nothing was done about it in the end. This meme was used to perfectly sum up the tactics they use:

    This was too close to the bone, they got offended, reported the poster and had the image taken down by a mod 😂

    Ever since they've been referred to as the "Sealions" of the conspiracy forum. Embarrassing stuff



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    "Interesting easy it is to get some people out of the woodwork"


    What does this even mean? Is all debate off limits to you lads or something? Its just non stop hostility and attacking of the person rather than their argument.


    "Vaccines are not dangerous...." I'd argue that those vaccines linked in the article were all dangerous. It's pretty dumbfounding that you would try to argue otherwise.


    Would mandating paracetemol to people who have a paracetemol allergy be dangerous to those people? Yes. Then paracetamol is dangerous to some people. Only an idiot would claim those people should take it anyway when they only had a very mild fever/headache or possibly no symptoms at all.


    What I find interesting about all of this is that you lads came to your conclusions that these vaccines were safe, well tested and effective very early on before any long term effects or epidemiological studies could have been done. And ye have decided that is your position and ye have stuck with it regardless of the mounting evidence. Ye are just certain, absolutely certain, based on trials carried out by the companies themselves that there is nothing worth talking about when it comes to their safety. These are companies which have been fined hundreds of millions of dollars in the past for falsifying and misrepresenting trial data and even now it has emerged that there were instances of them trying to do the same during at least a small portion of the trials for these vaccines....but ye still have absolute faith and trust in them. Its mind blowing really.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Lol sealions, I was wandering where that was from I've seen it a few times mentioned here. But I wasn't sure what it was. So the offensive sealions got offended lol absolute classic.

    That actually sums them up, I must download that cartoon. Sealions that's exactly how they debate as well.

    Imagine being married or sharing your life with someone like that. An absolute mind FCK.

    I love it :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    It was well established previously that you don’t understand what sealioning is. You still don’t.

    Also, weren’t you calling for the discussion to stop and for the forum to be closed because people were asking you questions?

    It was conspiracy theorists that wanted forums closed, not those who question conspiracy theories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Again, a reminder that the first time you appeared on this forum (under your current username) was when you demanded a list of questions you had in support of your theory that all spaceflight was faked.

    After getting full answers to all of those questions you proceeded to whinge and dodge until eventually you ended up faking a picture for some silly attempt to trick people that blew up in your face in hilarious fashion.


    Since then, and your attempt to have the forum shut down because it allowed people to disagree with your weird beliefs, you've done nothing but pop in and out of threads to whinge about how mean people are while doing nothing to add to the topic or answer any points.

    All the while your fellow conspiracy theorists have been ignoring you and avoiding you because of your previous embarrassing claims.

    None of them will even acknowledge it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yea, a lot of them claim that, but it turns out they're just pretending not to see the points because they don't want to deal with them.

    Besides, those posts aren't so much for Markus as they are for the other conspiracy theorists who want to pretend that they're being supported by reasonable people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its great to see the trend of deliberate lies and misrepresentation is continuing unabated:

    "As much as 30 percent of polio vaccines were contaminated with simian virus for eight years."

    https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients/sv40

    Polio vaccines used in the late 1950s and early 1960s were contaminated with a virus called simian virus 40 (SV40) present in monkey kidney cells used to grow the vaccine. Subsequently, investigators found SV40 DNA in biopsy specimens obtained from patients with cancers such as mesothelioma (lung), osteosarcoma (bone) and non-Hodgkins lymphoma (lymph nodes). However, several facts should be noted:

    SV40 was present in cancers of people who either had or had not received the polio vaccines that were contaminated with SV40.

    SV40 has not been present in any vaccine since 1963. 

    People with cancers who were born after 1963, when SV40 was no longer a contaminant of the polio vaccine, were found to have evidence for SV40 in their cancerous cells. 

    Epidemiologic studies do not show an increased risk of cancers in those who received polio vaccine between 1955 and 1963.

    Taken together, these findings do not support the hypothesis that SV40 virus contained in polio vaccines administered before 1963 caused cancers. 

    "As recently as 2017, a vaccine supposed to combat dengue fever actually was shown to cause a worse form of the disease."

    When used incorrectly. The more severe form of Dengue Fever is associated with repeat infection with a different strain. As such, the vaccine was intended to be given to people who had previously been infected with Dengue. In the Philippines it was given to people who had not been previously infected. This was not a vaccine issue it was a protocol issue. By getting the vaccine when some of those vaccinated contracted Dengue for the first time the experienced the same severe disease as those who had been previously infected.

    "Children treated with a vaccine designed to combat respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) actually developed an “enhanced” version of the disease, as the AAMC wrote, resulting in two deaths."

    In 1966, when far less was known about the role of adjutants in vaccine development. Is there a belidef that knowledge and methods have not improved in 56 years?

    "...the so-called Cutter incident, when a laboratory mistakenly sent out batches of live polio virus (instead of inactivated cells as they should have), as the Association of American Medical Colleges wrote. Five kids died, and more than 100 patients were paralyzed."

    A manufacturing fault not a vaccine. And again, is there a belief that manufacturing controls from the 1950's have not improved in the last 65 years, and if not why does anyone take any medication?

    "And of course, there were glass particles in the HPV vaccine back in 2013."

    There was an issue with the manufacture of the glass vials used for the vaccine. This was not a vaccine issue. And even so, when the potential issue was identified with up to 10 vials, 750,000 vials were recalled from the market, just in case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    I agree with all of your post. What's the issue here? I can't really see what I've misrepresented as you basically just posted the same thing again with more context. Unexpected things happened with vaccines that were not discovered until a later date and it is unlikely the exact same thing would happen again in those exact same scenarios.


    Well done, I don't really know how that counteracts any argument that new mistakes could be made with these new hastily rolled out vaccines. But good post, it's nice to have more information.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unexpected things happen, period! That is not a reason to do nothing, ever. Is the hypothesis that no one should even use any new medical treatment until there is years of data. If not, why is it different for vaccines?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Because it's profitable for certain grifters to increase and capitalise on the fear and uncertainty about vaccines.

    It's more profitable to focus on vaccines which a majority of people will encounter rather than individual medicines less universal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    If that is your point, then everything is dangerous, literally everything. Tomatoes, can choke or be allergic to them, doors, fall on people. Vaccines are overwhelmingly safe, there are risks associated with them as there is with everything but to describe them as dangerous is a complete stretch and fabrication. If you're making your point about something being dangerous you need to compare it with something you think isn't dangerous and go from there (well, you don't, you can just inject a nonsense comment like that in any discussion and everyone can ignore the stupidity of it).



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭hometruths


    If you're making your point about something being dangerous you need to compare it with something you think isn't dangerous and go from there 

    Getting Covid as a healthy young person is not dangerous. That's a decent starting point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So as a young person is getting the vaccine safer than getting covid?

    Does being vaccinated make it less or more dangerous than getting the virus?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    So many new @King Mob fan boys in here over the last few weeks giving abuse. You’d almost think it’s the same user or re-regs because they seem so familiar with him. It’s hilarious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No no, you see it's cause I'm a very typical government paid shill with set tactics that they've all cleverly figured out. But also they've figured out inside the only two posts they've read my full psychological profile and the myriad of character flaws I have.

    They're all very worldly and wise investigators who've dispatched more government shills than they can count. It's all very very impressive and all very very true...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    😂 Can't believe you typed this...

    My chances of getting myocarditis from vaccines is zero if I don't get the vaccine. Do you want a peer reviewed article to support this or maybe a confidence interval 😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Your chance of getting myocarditis from Covid is higher than the vaccines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Again, you once typed that you believe all space missions are faked.

    You once typed that the Challenger crew were all still live.

    You once made a fake picture and posted it and ended up humilating yourself.


    Your posting history betrays you yet again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I can’t believe you typed this!!!

    The chance of getting myocarditis due to covid is greater than the chance of getting myocarditis from the vaccine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Why is this relevant?

    This can only be relevant if vaccines prevent you from getting Covid-induced myocarditis - of which there is no evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Because the vaccines reduce the risk you die from Covid (or develop long Covid)

    It's not like they do nothing but give a tiny chance you develop myocarditis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    ????????

    Tell me that you agree or disagree with the following statement:

    The chances of getting myocarditis from the vaccine is zero if you do not receive the vaccine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Technically not correct, you can develop myocarditis naturally

    The occurrence of it from being vaccinated is still being studied and under debate, some studies show it's not too far from natural occurrence but indeed some studies show it's higher. To make it simple, let's just accept that the occurrence is higher in vaccinated people

    Then indeed if you are vaccinated the chances of developing the condition increase

    But

    Your chances of dying from Covid increases, by multiples

    Context is important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I used Newtonian physics to figure it out, do you disagree with that method? ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Young people die from Covid all the time. Some with no comorbidities, even some athletes die from it. Unvaccinated more likely to die from it.

    Healthy is vague. I've given you the CDC chart showing Covid deaths in unvaccinated people under the age of 59. It was from the CDC and like I said, a few minutes to google it up.

    But, at least you agree the vaccine's safe. That's good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Btw, I completely agree, if the virus didn't exist (does SARS-COV2 exist Markus? Has it been isolated yet?) then getting a vaccine for a non-existent disease would be silly (we've been kind of lucky to continue the polio vaccines given what occurred in the UK, very nasty disease).

    Tell me that you agree or disagree with the following statement:

    Man has visited the moon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    Patently false information. Name just one healthy athlete who has died of Covid. I just spent a few mins googling it and I found one guy....who also happened to have leukemia and I'd wager a bet 99% of his cause of death was the leukaemia and not covid. I did find a few active athletes....every single one of them was obese. 1 was a 355lb line backer and two were sumo wrestlers. I'd doubt any of those lads could run 100m without needing oxygen at the end.


    Considering how desperate the media was to make everyone believe this virus was the ultimate killer of our time its amazing there are so few notable deaths amongst young people. It's harder to find data now than before but I distinctly remember that not a single person under the age of 25 had died of Covid in Ireland during the first 18 months of the pandemic. When it was reported that the virus had claimed its youngest victim it also came out that she was a seriously ill child with lots of other issues.....


    So if "young people die of covid all the time", what exactly is your definition of "all the time"? I think the phrase you were looking for was "almost never".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    There's loads of examples so you mightn't have been trying too hard, there's a pretty sad one of a 16 year old in perfect health who died from coronavirus, he was unlucky enough to be born in one of the GOP states in the US which had low vax rates and would undoubtedly be alive today with a vaccine, anti-vaxxers are dangerous idiots responsible directly for human misery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    Seems vague and made up. Could you provide a link to prove this? And is there a chance there is some context missing when a "perfectly healthy" 16 year old dies of a disease which has infected millions of other perfectly healthy 16 year olds and killed almost none of them?

    Post edited by Capra on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'm not going to be posting links to tragic events about the death of young people in a one upmanship contest, but Google is your friend here, there is lots and lots of examples, I mentioned just 1 of many. There's a reddit subreddit as well with lots of examples, but it's fairly morose.

    Your credibility is kind of shot here.

    But it would prove that anti-vaxxers are too stupid to use the Internet, so you're proving one thing at least.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭hometruths


    The most worrying thing is that whilst there are very few stories of young healthy people dying from Covid, there has been a significant spike in young healthy people dying for unknown reasons. What exactly is killing all these young healthy people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Have you any evidence that this is actually happening and that it's due to the vaccines?

    You're letting your mask slip again there man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    The safety conspiracy theory about depopulation is dead and gone. In Ireland, births exceeded deaths by 171,338 in the last 6 years. 2.33 of those years were Covid years.



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  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Have you any evidence that this is actually happening and that it's due to the vaccines?

    I'm not going to be posting links to tragic events about the death of young people in a one upmanship contest, but Google is your friend here, there is lots and lots of examples,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So then no, you don't have any evidence to support your claim.

    There's nothing to show that is actually happening and nothing to show its due to the vaccines.


    Why the sudden change in your position? Previous you were claiming that there wasn't any safety issue you were concerned about and you were very offended with people suggesting you shared the conspiracy claims.

    Now you're repeating them openly.


    Did you change your mind? Or did you just get tired of pretending?



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I think the point I was making went over your head. Not for the first time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,000 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is just pure trolling and absolutely pathetic but very on form.

    There are lots of studies on the impact of vaccines you can link to, just as there are lots of studies on the impact of COVID on young people that have already been linked and then the likes of yourself ran away from or didn't understand the data (again proving the stupidity of anti-vaxxers). I've personally posted the risk/reward for the vaccines vs. the virus multiple times (250x risker to get the virus for the young male group, 1000x+ more dangerous to get the virus for every other group).

    Feel free to post the studies that will undoubtedly show up how pathetic this is or continue running away into stupid pedantry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,724 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No, you're being vague because you're still trying to pretend that you're not a anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist.

    If you have a point, make it directly and support it with evidence.

    Cause so far, you've been showing that you have no point and you have no evidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    Still waiting for you to post evidence of the thousands of young people and athletes you claim died from covid....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    It’s like Phishy cloned himself and there are many of his accounts posting here over the last few weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    In the US there were approximately 7500 deaths from Covid in under 30s, of which approx. 1000 were under 18.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Capra


    Well done. Youve pointed out a raw statistic that literally anyone can look up. There isn't even a consensus in the USA on how covid deaths are counted. Some states will count car accident victims as covid deaths if they test positive as it allows the hospital claim money from the government. Other states don't allow that. Those figures are absolutely meaningless. I've absolutely no doubt some of Americas chronically obese young people have died of covid, the fact many of them weight 300+ lbs by the age of 13 means America has absolutely enormous health issues.

    But we werent talking about u healthy people were we? Astrofool specifically claimed lots of healthy young people die of covid without providing a shred of evidence. Surely when deaths of healthy young people are so common people can just post some links to stories/biographies of these strapping young athletic men and women who are dropping dead on a daily basis. For some reason all the athletes that I'm finding who died of covid competed in the 1956 Olympics or were sumo wrestlers/body builders and nfl linebackers...athletes who all have a habit of dropping dead very suddenly anyway. Haven't seen many Premier league footballers retired due to complications from Covid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This was the quote I responded to:

    "post evidence of the thousands of young people and athletes"

    I posted figures for the death of young people.

    I don't other / dehumanise people with conditions like you tried to do. Young people with health conditions and still young people.

    Now, when presented with the figures you asked for, figures which are readily available, which you resort to quibbling and weasel words. You ask for figures, and then say they are meaningless. So apparently, you already knew that such figures were available and then just pretended ignorance until they were posted.

    Your posts are utterly dishonest exercises in weasel words and muddying of the waters. The perspective underlying your posts intellectually and morally bankrupt which is why the only place you can raise this guff is on the conspiracy theory thread.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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