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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ beggars_bush


    The constant brinkmanship is just absolutely bonkers with this Tory government



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,183 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    All for domestic U.K. (English) consumption. The EU has never once blinked or panicked in the face of any of it nor is there any need to. Keep being polite and willing “to talk”. Nothing more



  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ reslfj


    That is a repudiation of the treaty, simple as that. It puts our place in the SM at sudden risk.

    This and similar statements from Kermit are not of this world. Ireland and its trade will be defended by the EU together with Ireland.

    The EU might suspend the TCA, but not initiate the trade war on the island of Ireland. It is relative easy for a shorter period to limit the damage done to the SM by sloppy control across the Irish Sea border.

    The trade volume is after all limited across the GB-NI sea border, while is will hit the UK hard if trade is limited or stopped across the Channel.

    A few measures in Ireland could e.g. be a 100% ban UK registered lorries on ferries between Ireland and EU26 and/or confiscating lorries used for smuggling - or just lock the lorries up for say 3-6 months. No long haulier can afford and risk that.

    The EU will surely focus on limiting trade between England - harbours/airports - and continental EU (EU26).

    Lars 😀

    PS!

    When Trump introduced tariffs on steel and aluminium. the EU put import tariffs on specific US products from the home state of leading republican politicians. The EU dislikes it, but knows where to hit, when diplomacy fails. Harley-Davidson from Wisconsin (then Speaker Paul Ryan) and Kentucky Whiskey (then Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell) and others.

    Post edited by reslfj on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,817 ✭✭✭✭ Ads by Google


    Kermit, go tell your wife what you'll do if she ever cheats on you. Let us know how you get on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,684 ✭✭✭✭ Leroy42



    surelythat's it then. Now that Johnson, the UK government and the public has been warned of the consequences, surely they will heed the warnings and implement the NIP.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    All the EU has to do is to suspend parts of the TCA or even the whole thing. This would devastate the UK as Johnson well knows. There's a reason he went begging for an extension.

    I'd say he's trying to appear hawkish enough to appease the paleosceptics in his party despite already having given them their sinecures. If he can stunt investment in Northern Ireland, so much the better.

    Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering. Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them. Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.

    Steven Erikson



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,896 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    ..

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,369 ✭✭✭ yagan


    How are they going to control a 500 klm border with the EU one the island of Ireland when they can't even conduct checks on EU imports at british ports yet?

    Whereas if they actually provoke us we have the resources of the entire EU to run a customs regime. Obviously this will mean that Boris will have played his last hand leaving the UK as a pariah state to the EU until there's a regime change.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Regime change - is that not a UK speciality?

    Mind you, the USA also go into that kind of activity in a big way, but this time the USA is on the other side of this particular spat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭ ath262


    What exactly was the point of the little trip to Belfast by Boris ?

    All he did was annoy most of the parties, no new suggestions other than some vague promise of changes to the DUP - no sign of any instruction to the DUP to stop blocking the assembly





  • Registered Users Posts: 15,686 ✭✭✭✭ VinLieger


    You are reaching Qanon levels with your constant excuses.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    Like everything Johnson does it was aimed solely at the English Voting audience.

    Trying to make it look like he's being "serious about Brexit and giving the EU a bloody nose and showing them who's Boss"

    He couldn't care less about the DUP or anybody else in NI.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    Oh yeah, it's Bread and Circuses stuff and probably just p'oed SF and Alliance with empty puffery while placating the DUP enough to continue their quixotic regime against the Protocol. The whole problem is palmed off for another few weeks, in that time the North stagnates with no government - which is probably the point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,183 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    So BoJos little visit today achieved zilch- an exercise to placate unionists and pretend he’s “helping”- the main purpose of course was for domestic English consumption to look like he’s standing up to the EU. It’s a well worn pantomime at this stage.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    The UK Government couldn't give a toss about the Unionists and if only the DUP el al could figure that out we'd all be in a better place.

    But they are blinded by their utter hatred for anything that associates NI with the rest of Ireland and as such will continue to kick themselves in the balls to prevent any hint of détente between North and South.

    They are "useful idiots" for Johnson (which is saying something given the stupendously idiotic behaviour of his entire Government) and are being used as a deflection from all of the other crap that is going on.

    Johnson, Truss et al will do absolutely nothing substantive and will continue to sabre rattle and bluster periodically whenever they feel they need a distraction from how horrendously Brexit is actually going - Except in NI where the Protocol is actually preventing the worst of the impacts from taking effect.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    If there's another 6 months of this, then a rerun of the Executive election, you'd have to wonder at what point does the cautious unionist stop voting DUP out of (reasonable) fear of SF getting in, and give Alliance the nod. Or indeed, SF: it's a It's very possible that this discussion is academic, it's a huge reach but if SF keep talking about what's best for the North, the immediacy of problems needing resolution today, why wouldn't they swing a handful of wavering unionists? Assuming the paranoia over the Protocol isn't percolating into these constituents,mind you.

    I never thought I'd say it but Mary Lou,speaking after her meet with Boris Johnson sounded like a woman who wants to get work done, with mature irritation towards the spoofery of a minority interest. I was impressed with her language and demeanor. They're playing this crisis well.



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭ looksee


    Yes we agreed to it but we didn't expect them to actually carry out what was in the agreement. How do you even discuss anything with someone as stupid as that?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    It's baffling.

    I'm reading a history of Irish nationalism at the moment and the drop in quality in Unionist politicians is cataclysmic for Unionism. The likes of Carson and Craig were happy to use Westminster but keep it at a distance. Any time London got concerned about the treatment of Nationalists, they'd threaten to shut down the government in Northern Ireland.

    The GFA was signed in 1998. Anyone born then has reached adulthood during this time of unparalleled peace in the history of Northern Ireland. They've also seen the DUP do nothing but try to destroy it for reasons they can't relate to. They care a lot less about religion and arguments about saving Ulster from sodomy are barbaric to them. Were I living in NI, I'd be an Alliance voter.

    They've done nothing to create a future for Unionism. We're seeing its final phase, its death throes. Younger people in NI are seeing things like marriage equality and bodily autonomy rights being rolled out across the border as well as in mainland Britain. Amidst global talk of things like climate change, the DUP squandered over a billion pounds on a broken renewables initiative and just carried on as if nothing ever happened.

    The truly maddening thing is that even after pushing Brexit, they willingly squandered opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to protect NI's future and begin to build a new narrative for Unionism. Theresa May's deal would have prevented all of this and they had three chances to vote for it. They could have championed themselves as NI's economic guardians, kept their stranglehold on the assembly and pushed Sinn Fein onto the backfoot. Instead, they took a bung.

    Before much longer, the Belfast Agreement will be 30 years old. The DUP's demographic is dying off. Fewer and fewer people will remember the worst of the troubles. I asked a family member once what Unionism had accomplished in a century. His answer was keeping out Sinn Fein. That was it.

    If Michelle O'Neil starts coming out with language along the lines of getting the border done for good, I think that'll be it for Unionism.

    Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering. Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them. Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.

    Steven Erikson



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,684 ✭✭✭✭ Leroy42


    Oh, he isn't stupid. That is just the cover. He is lying, lazy, uninterested and doesn't have any actual ideaoligy. But he isn't stupid.

    They knew exact.y what they were doing when they signed the deal. The signed it simply to win an election (I know technically the Election was before but the deal was sold as the key reason to vote for the Tories). Remember that they argued a Labour government would mean more negotiations, while Johnson had the 'oven ready deal'.

    They knew, and we know because they told us, that they never had any intention of sticking to the deal. They saw the deal as just a point in time, get the deal, win the election, then worry about what happens next.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,669 ✭✭✭✭ BlitzKrieg


    Why waste a good talking point to use in the inevitable border poll debates?

    A lot of the DUP's actions seem to be done with them accepting that the border poll will come and that throwing as many spanners into the workings of northern Ireland now delays any actual work towards the border poll and makes the actual poll just generally more difficult.


    The more awkward position northern ireland is in economically between the two states and disfunctional its own executive is, the more likely a border poll will fail.


    Much like how they are now championing the good friday agreement against the protocol when they were voting against it originally. Expect to see the DUP at some potential border poll claiming that voting in favour of the border poll would see an end to the protocol and "gee" hasnt the protocol been great for the economy. We dont want to ruin that right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,896 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    The more awkward position northern ireland is in economically between the two states and disfunctional its own executive is, the more likely a border poll will fail.

    I don't know about that. Surely a functioning, well-run NI (bear with me here) would give many nationalist-leaning voters something to think about long and hard before taking a leap into the unknown?

    As things stand, the DUP are arguably doing SF's work for them. "NI is a basket case and has been for 100 years and always will be if you let it continue to exist"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    I think a lot of people in a slightly dystopian future of infinitely tedious rowing over the protocol would be very responsive to a border poll which might permanently settle the whole issue.

    Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering. Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them. Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.

    Steven Erikson



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭ Enzokk


    So the UK will legislate to unilaterally change the NIP.

    "Liz Truss has "invited" @MarosSefcovic to London for a Joint Committee meeting soon to discuss this "new" Protocol"


    We will have to see what the legislation is and then if it gets through parliament and the HoL as well. Joke of a government who had their own impact assessments that predicted the current checks and still they went ahead.


    In before Kermit, there is no need to act rash now. Just have discussions with the UK and let them know what will happen if they continue this course and leave it to them to destroy their reputation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭ Enzokk


    Just listening to debate about the new legislation and it is delusion upon delusion. We are back to alternative solutions again, or how the elections in NI showed a majority of unionists being against it. Or how Johnson is being liberal with the truth when he says all parties aren't happy with the NIP.


    Yes, all parties are against it, but not for the same reasons. The DUP, UUP and TUV are against it because it creates a border between it and the UK as intended. The others are against it because it is stopping them from forming a government. So yes they are all against it at the moment but there will not be a solution that will satisfy everyone.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,080 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    The others are not "against it" in any shape or form.



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