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Retrofitting

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭pah


    Hi, how do you know what the timeframe is? I was in touch by email with 2 of the companies the day they appeared on the SEAI site. Radio silence and none of them answer the phone. Have an attic conversion pencilled in for July and was hoping to coordinate that work with other upgrades, even if they wouldn't be done until later as also switching mortgage provider and getting equity release to cover retrofit cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    I got a reply within a few days and already arranged technical assessment for this coming week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    Got a reply after 1 week, will be 2-4 weeks before technical assessor is in touch, and another 2-4 weeks before I receive their technical report.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    What kind of grant is out there for loft insulation at the moment. My sister was looking for me to do it as i did it in the parents house a few years ago, but i dont fancy it. I had a look in her attic and she has wires everywhere. Alarm, down lighter, new sockets etc. The place is a mess of wires and down lights. I definitely dont want to touch it. There is old fiberglass in there thats all squashed down that will have to come out too.

    So im just going to send her a link to a professional.

    What kind of prices should i be looking at after grant to do just attic insulation in a 170Sqm bungalow?



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    Oh Lord, I've just logged in to look at this thread and the detail is tough.

    I initially thought "all this stuff is too difficult, let's get a One Stop Shop" (OSS). So I contact SSE in Nov 2021. Window replacement, wall insulation, solar PV.

    After an initial visit and quotation, we waited for the Govt grants in February and contacted SSE again. The last message on 8 March was " Our software is just updated and we are beginning the quotations for the Deep Retrofit . I will be in touch over the next week with your quotation." It's now two months later and they're not responding to my calls or emails.

    So, I think, OK, forget the OSS, do it ourselves. We have a quotation for the Windows upgrade - Munster Joinery told us we need to do windows before wall insulation. But checking the SSE web site shows that Window replacement has NO grants unless it's part of a OSS. At least we can get a Co. Council window assistance grant for older people.

    Should we get a BER first? I contacted a local BER contractor, left messages, no call back. Is there a responsive one operating in the North Wexford region? One contractor tells me "we do a full energy audit.... generally carried out if you are proceeding with the National Housing Retrofit Scheme / One Stop Shop. But not required if applying for individual grant. For individual grant you need BER Cert pre and post but we do not carry this out."

    Wall insulation is a headache. We got an informal visit from a local Kingspan installer who said the cavity wall insulation is easy enough but a middle part of the (1970s) house is an old construction with NO cavity, just wood panels AFAICS with external cladding, so he recommended external insulation. Then I see all the threads from C.Eastwood weighing against external insulation. BUT, internal lining would mean having to tear out all the fitted kitchen, cupboards, etc against the external wall!!? How do we choose?

    Is there a list of recommended contractors I could choose from to get independent advice on this? I don't want to leave possible grants unclaimed but if the T&Cs are dragging on while inflation is rampantly destroying the life savings we had put aside for this, we lose that way too. (Putting it baldly ... the payback needs to be less than 15 years or we won't live to see it.)





  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    ignore ewi negative comments. There is nothing wrong with it. A certain troll has disappeared.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 laur_1995


    We engaged SSE for the OSS in late February 2022, we got an initial quote from them (which was actually based on the old grants) and placed a 800 euro deposit down to get technical assessments done. Since then we have had the technical assessment done (only took max 30 mins) and have had a visit from Munster Joinery. We have yet to see the results of the technical assessment or any new quote using the new grant amounts. is anyone in the same boat or further along than we are?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    BryanF

    I never made negative comments, and if I claimed another member did, I would get a Warning from A Moderator.

    Furthermore I have not disappeared.

    Thirdly if I called another member a Troll I would get a Warning from A Moderator.

    I have read the Rules as you advised with the last 2 Warnings, and it appears to me that the rules apply different to different members.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    A local BER contractor suggests c 250 on their website for a domestic assessment. Though, they did not respond to my text or email asking for a quote.

    A large contractor quotes 700+ for an "energy audit" which they say is far more than a simple BER. I get the impression that they are focused on big jobs.

    We'll just go ahead with the Munster Joinery window replacement job (estimate 8 weeks waiting) and get a Co. Council grant and leave the SEAI for insulation until some other time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    How do I get email notifications of replies? I used to get that in the previous Boards software, now I have to remember to log in to get any answers. I'd rather get an email notification at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    If you want to avail of SEAI grants you need the 'energy audit' which basically states what grants you are eligible for.

    Mine cost €676.50 wth -snip- but I am looking to avail of the One Stop Shop grant scheme so need the entire house assessed.

    Post edited by BryanF on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Hi. Can u explain the process for using -snip- and still availing of the OSS please? My reading of the SEAI page is that only registered One Stop Shop can be used.

    Post edited by BryanF on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    OSS provider put me in contact with Buildcert to get the intial assessment done. Buildcert will send their report of what I qualify for to both myself and OSS provider. Buildcert are then done and its up to me and OSS provider to agree next steps.


    The OSS provider will then manage all grant paymenets on behalf of SEAI through their project management service. This service may include getting contractors to do the work if you are not using your own via your builder. I see 2 scenarios here:

    1. You use your OSS provider to provide the contractors (SEAI approved only) and process the grants.
    2. You use your OSS provider to process the grants only and you provide the contractors (SEAI approved only).


    Either way payment for the SEAI work will be processed via your OSS provider.

    If you are gettting non SEAI work done at the same time, say an extension, then you have SEAI and non-SEAI payments to consider.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Had my technical assessment done. Got the report. It's quite limited, just a table with items to improve and specific recommendations. I am a bit skeptical because the assessor included even brand names of roof insulation, windows and boiler. Surely I should be able to choose the specific brand of boiler I want to have. This table is followed by short summary at the end. This doesn't worth 600€ in my opinion.

    Anyway I am not sure what happens if I want to add extension to the house. Would I need specific plans drafted and reassessed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    I'm guessing you either quality for a grant or not.

    Take attic insultation, if the max. grant available for it is €1,300 then it doesn't matter if you extend your roof, or your current roof is bigger than your neighbours. You still only get €1,300 if you qualify.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    So just an update, after technical assessment (600€) Iam waiting to hear back from One Stop Shop regarding the cost of the works. I called them after not hearing anything for 3 weeks and they're telling me it will be at least another 2 weeks before I hear from them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    Did they say another 2 weeks for the intial assessment report, or the actual quote for the works?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Quote for the works. I received the assessment report.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭circadian


    Im on the same boat, another one stop shop came back quicker with an insane quote that made no sense. I forwarded al the assesment details so they're working off the same data as the others. €30k to wrap a semi-d where my quotes from companies to just do the wrap were in the region of €11-14k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    The OSS seems an absolute joke. 5 providers, is it, for the entire country? For a government funded program of many hundreds of millions of pounds. And those that offer it seem not to want to work with people doing any extension type work. If you can get hold of them to ask that question. Pathetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    This is where the problem will lie. The One Stop Shop providers are basically just getting quotes on your behalf. Builders will see who they are quoting for, determine it is grant work, and price accordingly. Yet to go through the whole process myself but already I have a feeling the SEAI grant scheme money may never make to down to benefit the home owner 😕.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭circadian


    Yep it's why I'm getting individual quotes and OSS quotes. I know the OSS will cost more but if it's what I'm willing to pay to not b chasing contractors myself then I will but double the price on everything is too much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    The other curious thing is that there is such a gap between granta available to OSS and to individual grants. Why the latter do not cover doors, floors, windows etc just doesn't make sense. If the aim is to make as many homes energy efficient why not have the same grants apply to both? It's very poorly executed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    You can use the OSS to provide only grant processing and certification services. You can get your own contractor and get them to deal with the OSS. This is how most scenarios will play out I imagine. The OSS will still get their money either way as they will charge you a Project Management fee so no real difference to them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    The OSS that has responded to me has told me that they won't get involved where there's ane extension/builder:

    "we are not in a position to take on board any projects where there is a builder involved or if there is an extension to be built at the same time."



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Yeah I have sent my technical assessment to another One stop shop today. To be honest I am really sceptical about this process. I feel like these One Stop Shops will add insane amounts for profit. The problem with doing individual upgrades is that you can't qualify for everything like windows for example. I want to put new triple glazed windows. I think you can only quality for grant through One stop shop.


    In terms of works I was recommended:

    1. Triple glazed windows

    2. 8 PV panels 3.5KW

    3. New gas boiler

    4. Attic insulation

    5. Cavity insulation

    Final expected BER: A3


    I wonder what figure they will come up with...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    The OSS I am enaging with is more than happy to quote me for additonal non-SEAI grant work, and is also happy to engage with any SEAI registered contractors I put forward. They still get their fees and I spoke at length to them about this. We all understand it is early stages in the process but they were in agreement that this is a scenario that will arise over and over again.

    A large amount of One Stop Shop SEAI grant work being undertaken may be on homes being fully renovated from E up to maybe B rating. You would expect the new house owner to be doing other works to the house at the same time as it makes complete sense. My guess is your OSS will change their approach as they think it through further. Otherwise they may not generate as much business.

    Builders will also need to review how they work and get paid for these type of jobs. They will have to invoice the OSS for the grant work and invoice the homeowner for the non-grant work. I spoke with a potential builder who did a previous extension for me and, although he had not thought it through, he indicated this would not be a problem for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭hesker


    I’ve been talking to companies since last Oct and am still trudging along working through the process. It’s a pita.

    I got a quote from one company for €105k for

    EWI

    New WINDOWS

    1 New Door

    attic insulation

    heat pump

    Small section of cavity pumping

    I don’t live in a mansion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    I got quoted 50k after the grants for the above work.

    That's overestimation to say the least.

    There's noway those items cost that much.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭circadian


    Aye they're taking the piss €70k after grants from another. Still no PV on these quotes either. €30k for a heat pump/new rads etc. The grant for the rads is small enough that I'd get it done myself and get an individual HP install for less than half that and still come out much better off for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    Are these quotes via the One Stop Shop providers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭circadian


    Yeah, I've been getting quotes for the work individually too and while there's more headache in dealing with multiple vendors it's significantly cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    I intend to package all the SEAI work into one and look for a single quote, but may end up ultimately dealing with seperate vendors as you say.

    I will obtain quotes from my OSS, through my architect via a tender process, and directly from a couple of builders I know. This should hopefully give me a good breath of costs. To note, I am doing works above the SEAI grant work so have engaged with an architect for this purpose anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    I got quoted 25K for windows and doors. 12k for Solar panels. 7K for boiler change. I am not convinced it should cost that much



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Nicetrustedcup


    So I got quoted 60k and without grants 82k

    the wrap

    2 doors

    heatpump and rads

    2kw PV system

    project management fee


    i died of laughter going why do I have to pay 7k project management fees. They told me this is for specialist project management work, I went I am a project manager (which I am) I should be able to do this he went nope you have to pay as you need a project manager, As I have a ego I said to myself how hard is this to project manage?,

    the one stop shop also said I have a flute on my house and need attic installation, one there isn’t a flute and two I provided paperwork for my attic insulation and they could see the grade but nope it needs to be redone … 4 years after I got it done ….

    since this quote I am after sorting my wrap, windows and doors, for 14k, getting my PV system quotes next week and on to the heat pump, target for all work is about 30k to 35K, and being honest with myself being a project manager doing my own project work is a walk in the park haha don’t have deadlines to worry about ha,


    but yes these one stop shops are a rip off



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    So I had a chat with OSS that gave me that ridiculous quote. I told them there's noway I am spending that much. They understand their quote is mad, so they offer individual items that I am interested in, which were reasonably priced. I might still to ahead with that and get best price/quality for what I need. Also just to note, instead of 30-40% grant discount it ended up just about 20% or less



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    To be honest after the research I have done, it appears that doing individual upgrades makes more sense. I am not sure what kind of demographic can afford 70-100k on energy upgrade in a context of renovating a home where you already spending large sum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    What I have found after looking into this is that the only One Stop Shop that said they would work alongside extension and renovation works would charge a €8,000 fee to Project Manage even though I would have my own Project Manager, Contractor etc. The 8k is effectively for doing the paperwork on the grant application under the OSS. That pretty much cancels out the additional grants available under OSS versus individual grants - OSS allows for floors, windows, 2 doors, individual do not. Also, doing OSS alongside wider scope of works would make it messy for my contractor, so I just don't think it is going to be worthwhile doing. It's a pretty crap programme, all in all, not even going into the fact that there are only 6 OSS listed on the SEAI for the whole country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Yep, that's basically it. It's just too expensive. I already hired a contractor do do attic insulation and will proceed with individual upgrades. Have a guy coming in to give me a quote for solar PV and new boiler.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    Quote from OSS in. I'l not go into all of it but I got 2 verbal quotes/indications for external wrap at circa 18k while waiting on the OSS. Line item for external wrap in OSS quote is 31k excl. VAT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    So is this scheme essentially useless? What is the point of grants if they the increase the prices by double?

    Im a B3 and was considering triple glazed windows, attic insulation, 2 doors and some wall insulation. Assuming I should just do it privately? Or using individual grants?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    For individual grants I guess if you like the price from a SEAI registered contactor you can give them the work and submit a grant application.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    Has anyone actually used the scheme effectively and saved money?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭FrankN1




  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Paul_798



    If starting from a B3 rating OSS probably isn't going to be an option. For OSS you must achieve at least a B2 rating AND improvement of at least 100kWH/M2/Yr. So a B3 (125-150) would have to be in the A2 (25-50 ) band at the end of the process. That is going to need a lot of detailed work to achieve most of which wouldn't be covered by the grants. I would doubt that an OSS would even engage with you.

    Individual measures would still be an option if starting from B3 but you may need to do them at the same time to avoid hitting B2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭gooner99


    I only managed to get a quote from one company so far. Others said they weren't taking any more for this year or not covering my County. The one that did quote offered a free survey. But when I got a call back they seemed uninterested to come out. Not sure if this was down to the fact I said I wanted to extend the house as well as upgrade the existing or if it was due to the small size of my existing bungalow. He did however offer to send me a quote for individual measures based on details and existing house plans I submitted. Most measures were fairly competitive, but the EWI seems very expensive for the house size. Anyone else feel they would get better value going the individual grant route via a registered contractor, especially if extending and renovating at the same time?

    Total outside wall area in sqm - 85sqm. Area of house in sqm - 44sqm (floor area), 54sqm (outside).
    External Wall Insulation. Insulation to be 100mm EPS thermal conductivity 0.031 w/mk in conjunction with an approved render system installed by registered contractors in line with NSAI certification and Retrofit Code of Practice SR54 – 95sqm.This price also includes: Removal and replacement of 1 satellite dish and 1 outside light, 30sqm of scaffolding and hire of waste removal (1 skip). 17.4m of New guttering, 4.8m of New downpipe including the removal and disposal of old. 2 x Mechanical extract Vents (Including core) € 22,603.72 ex vat. €25655.22 incl vat. (grant - €8,000). Total after grant €17655.22




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 619 ✭✭✭arch_stanton


    I received a quote back today and I’m still picking my jaw up from the floor. 137k plus unspecified sundries less 27k in grants for a typical 1970 semi-d with extension in good condition. It might be cheaper to knock it and start again :-)

    I’m no expert on costs but they want 8k for 2kW solar. Thanks to the guys over in the renewables forum I know that’s approximately 3 times the market rate. If the one stop shop is gouging on that I assume they’re gouging on the rest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,304 ✭✭✭✭muffler




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭FrankN1




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