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Retrofitting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dathi


    well played micktheman that pretty much answered bryanF last post



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,662 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    @C. Eastwood , I'm a bit confused as well, maybe I'm reading @MicktheMan's set-up wrong.

    As I see it it;

    (open to correction of course)


    So you are saying the cold gable wall in the loft will not be a problem in the room below?

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    "NO do not fix any insulation to the inside face of the inner leaf of the concrete block wall in the attic, as it would be totally redundant and a complete waste of money, and serve no purpose whatsoever."

    So what about the thermal bridge?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,662 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "So what about the thermal bridge?"

    It's axiomatic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    chooseusername

    Your answers are so long and so full of technological details - and are difficult for me to follow 😂😂 and read. Easy to know that you have put a substantial amount of research and logic and a lot of thought in to your query and apparently will only want to criticise my reply. 😂😂

    I first assumed that you were asking a genuine question, but from reading other posts here it appears that you are only acting the Wally (nice word) with the rest of the clique.

    Your comment as follows:-

    maybe I'm reading @MicktheMan's set-up wrong. And Well played Mick…………

    “Set up” and “Well Played” This carry on by the clique is disgraceful and unbelievable so say the least, in this Forum where genuine people ask Real questions- and under normal circumstances should be entitled to and given free expert advice here. But unfortunately there are human beings involved, and as a friend of mine always says about some humans - “expect nothing from a Pig except a Grunt, and you shall never be disappointed”.

    And someone else in the forum instructed me to “grow up”. 😂😂😂

    However there are normal minded people readings this and I will continue to provide them with correct information requested by them.

    I will use very nice words here which will not allow the clique to achieve their goal of - to be able to ban me from the forum, no matter how much they try.

    it is not my fault that people here are discommoded (another new word for you to use 😂😂) because their EWI is redundant with their vented cavities. They themselves caused this problem. It is what it is. (Good advice here - only get advice from Construction Professionals). They could have availed of my expert free advise here in this forum😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

    I am delighted that I have expanded your vocabulary and you will now be able to be significant and impress your friends no ends with this New big word.

    It is axiomatic 😂😂😂 that yourself and the clique want me to answer your query as follows:-

    So you are saying the cold gable wall in the loft will not be a problem in the room below?

    I didn’t say that. If I did I would have to clarify the ‘Problem’

    In the funny sketch you displayed, there will never be a problem in the room below from a Cold Bridge. Condensation will never occur unless you were running a Laundrette and drying all the clothes on the Radiator in the room with the windows and door of the unvented room closed. Otherwise there will not be a condensation problem.

    and no - you will not freeze to death in the room- no worries matey 🦘🦘🦘. Any person can stay in the room all day long very worried about the few half-watts heat loss up through the “thermal bridge”.

    What is the best advice yourself and Mick would give in relation to the thermal bridge to a human being in the room getting ‘Paralysis by Analysis’ over the few watts escaping up their thermal bridge as per your sketch. It might be best to instruct them to insulate the entire wall in the Attic to stop them from worrying and might be cheaper than getting and treating mental health problems.

    Mick thinks it’s a thermal bridge and maybe it’s a cold bridge, what do you diagnose? 😂😂

    Micktheman is getting very excited about a “thermal bridge”.

    I was going to ask the clique a Question - to explain to me the difference between A Cold Bridge and a Thermal Bridge, but it would probably cause Google to crash😂😂. -TV/Google/ Bannon/theory - Insulation/ cold bridge/thermal bridge experts 😂😂😂😂

    Before one of you gets excited about the thermal bridge /cold bridge, and all the terrible heat loss of the few half watts as per your sketch there are many other factors. Thousands of houses were built to the 1992 BR which requires a 5000 mm2 permanent background vent in all habitable rooms, many houses had 1 or 2 open fireplaces. All houses must have purge ventilation as required by the BR. The back and front doors are opened many many times each day so that most of the heat loss from the room (down under) will occur by Convection and maybe-just maybe a silly smidgen of a few watts of heat from the room might go up through the inner leaf of the wall by Conduction OR maybe cold might travel down the inner leaf ☃️☃️☃️

    And yourself and mick (genuinely😂😂) wishes to know if the uninsulated wall of the attic above the ceiling insulation in your sketch is a cold bridge and /or thermal bridge - of course it is. Most parts of the house are a Cold Bridge and a Thermal Bridge, and heat must flow out if there is colder air outside. So you decide where the thermal bridge/cold bridge starts or ends.

    Its not Magic- it’s Building Science, and needs to be examined by Cost Analysis Benefit - how much expensive thermal insulation do you install to prevent small heat loss occurring. 🔥-v- €€.

    You asked the question about my advice in relation to adding more insulation to the wall in your sketch, although I believe it is not a genuine question and is only asked for an ulterior motives- for the clique - I will answer it for the Genuine people reading it- there is no need to add any more insulation in the attic to the inner face of the wall leaf at the attic side to reduce the heat loss in the Thermal Bridge. No matter how much insulation you add you cannot eliminate the Thermal Bridge.

    Now matter what thickness of EWI is installed together with super cavity fill insulation together with excellent internal wall insulation - the external walls will always be a Thermal Bridge. This is Building Science.

    And bear in mind that in Ireland we have a very mild climate.

    Here are some Excellent BR drawings from Homebond Right on the Site leaflets.

    New houses should be done accordingly to comply with the BR.

    In renovating an existing house, the way it’s shown on your funny sketch is perfectly fine.

    I can’t wait for all the Scientific detailed replies I will receive, to increase my thermal insulation knowledge. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🙊🙈🙉



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  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    So, embarking on a deep retrofit albeit very early stages.

    My current approach will be to use the one stop shop provider to provide project management only to the SEAI related work, circa 5k post specific grant for this aspect. You have to use them for processing the grants and there are about 5 of them on the SEAI website. They will ensure full certication though so big piece of mind there, hopefully! I will not rely on them to provide the sub contractors though.

    I will then ask my builder to do all the work and to quote for SEAI and non-SEAI work seperately. SEAI will pay him for the grant related work and I will pay him directly for the non grant related work. Builder has to ensure all SEAI work is undertaken by approved contractors so the onus is on him here.

    One Stop Shop provider will ask me for the cost of the grant specific work upfront minus the grants to be applied, and then they pay the builder the full amount when work completes.

    This hybrid payment method may be a common scenario for builders in the future.

    Post edited by WacoKid on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,662 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    @WacoKid , might I suggest starting a dedicated thread for this, and keep it updated as you progress.

    This one got contaminated and your experience would only get lost here.

    Hopefully the cowboys will leave it to genuinely interested posters wishing to follow you along the way.

    Good luck with it by the way.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Mod Note: @C. Eastwood Good information and diverse opinions as always welcome. Belittling the opinions of others and your increasingly hostile (to others) posting style not welcome. Also cut out all the 😂😂😂 !



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid



    Will do once the ball is rolling. 4-6 week wait with One Stop Shop providers for engagement, and then same for a formal quote on the technical assessment undertaken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    That's a very interesting approach.

    I am planning house renovation as well as some energy upgrades.

    My issue is that I haven't hired a building to do my house renovations yet but I am engaging with One Stop Shop. I wonder if I should engage with a building company and try to link them up. I have no idea how to even start looking for a building company to renovate the property, as I was planning to commence search later in the year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭pah


    Hi, how do you know what the timeframe is? I was in touch by email with 2 of the companies the day they appeared on the SEAI site. Radio silence and none of them answer the phone. Have an attic conversion pencilled in for July and was hoping to coordinate that work with other upgrades, even if they wouldn't be done until later as also switching mortgage provider and getting equity release to cover retrofit cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    I got a reply within a few days and already arranged technical assessment for this coming week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Got a reply after 1 week, will be 2-4 weeks before technical assessor is in touch, and another 2-4 weeks before I receive their technical report.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    What kind of grant is out there for loft insulation at the moment. My sister was looking for me to do it as i did it in the parents house a few years ago, but i dont fancy it. I had a look in her attic and she has wires everywhere. Alarm, down lighter, new sockets etc. The place is a mess of wires and down lights. I definitely dont want to touch it. There is old fiberglass in there thats all squashed down that will have to come out too.

    So im just going to send her a link to a professional.

    What kind of prices should i be looking at after grant to do just attic insulation in a 170Sqm bungalow?



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    Oh Lord, I've just logged in to look at this thread and the detail is tough.

    I initially thought "all this stuff is too difficult, let's get a One Stop Shop" (OSS). So I contact SSE in Nov 2021. Window replacement, wall insulation, solar PV.

    After an initial visit and quotation, we waited for the Govt grants in February and contacted SSE again. The last message on 8 March was " Our software is just updated and we are beginning the quotations for the Deep Retrofit . I will be in touch over the next week with your quotation." It's now two months later and they're not responding to my calls or emails.

    So, I think, OK, forget the OSS, do it ourselves. We have a quotation for the Windows upgrade - Munster Joinery told us we need to do windows before wall insulation. But checking the SSE web site shows that Window replacement has NO grants unless it's part of a OSS. At least we can get a Co. Council window assistance grant for older people.

    Should we get a BER first? I contacted a local BER contractor, left messages, no call back. Is there a responsive one operating in the North Wexford region? One contractor tells me "we do a full energy audit.... generally carried out if you are proceeding with the National Housing Retrofit Scheme / One Stop Shop. But not required if applying for individual grant. For individual grant you need BER Cert pre and post but we do not carry this out."

    Wall insulation is a headache. We got an informal visit from a local Kingspan installer who said the cavity wall insulation is easy enough but a middle part of the (1970s) house is an old construction with NO cavity, just wood panels AFAICS with external cladding, so he recommended external insulation. Then I see all the threads from C.Eastwood weighing against external insulation. BUT, internal lining would mean having to tear out all the fitted kitchen, cupboards, etc against the external wall!!? How do we choose?

    Is there a list of recommended contractors I could choose from to get independent advice on this? I don't want to leave possible grants unclaimed but if the T&Cs are dragging on while inflation is rampantly destroying the life savings we had put aside for this, we lose that way too. (Putting it baldly ... the payback needs to be less than 15 years or we won't live to see it.)





  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    ignore ewi negative comments. There is nothing wrong with it. A certain troll has disappeared.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 laur_1995


    We engaged SSE for the OSS in late February 2022, we got an initial quote from them (which was actually based on the old grants) and placed a 800 euro deposit down to get technical assessments done. Since then we have had the technical assessment done (only took max 30 mins) and have had a visit from Munster Joinery. We have yet to see the results of the technical assessment or any new quote using the new grant amounts. is anyone in the same boat or further along than we are?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭MicktheMan




  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    BryanF

    I never made negative comments, and if I claimed another member did, I would get a Warning from A Moderator.

    Furthermore I have not disappeared.

    Thirdly if I called another member a Troll I would get a Warning from A Moderator.

    I have read the Rules as you advised with the last 2 Warnings, and it appears to me that the rules apply different to different members.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    A local BER contractor suggests c 250 on their website for a domestic assessment. Though, they did not respond to my text or email asking for a quote.

    A large contractor quotes 700+ for an "energy audit" which they say is far more than a simple BER. I get the impression that they are focused on big jobs.

    We'll just go ahead with the Munster Joinery window replacement job (estimate 8 weeks waiting) and get a Co. Council grant and leave the SEAI for insulation until some other time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sysmod


    How do I get email notifications of replies? I used to get that in the previous Boards software, now I have to remember to log in to get any answers. I'd rather get an email notification at the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    If you want to avail of SEAI grants you need the 'energy audit' which basically states what grants you are eligible for.

    Mine cost €676.50 wth -snip- but I am looking to avail of the One Stop Shop grant scheme so need the entire house assessed.

    Post edited by BryanF on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Hi. Can u explain the process for using -snip- and still availing of the OSS please? My reading of the SEAI page is that only registered One Stop Shop can be used.

    Post edited by BryanF on


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    OSS provider put me in contact with Buildcert to get the intial assessment done. Buildcert will send their report of what I qualify for to both myself and OSS provider. Buildcert are then done and its up to me and OSS provider to agree next steps.


    The OSS provider will then manage all grant paymenets on behalf of SEAI through their project management service. This service may include getting contractors to do the work if you are not using your own via your builder. I see 2 scenarios here:

    1. You use your OSS provider to provide the contractors (SEAI approved only) and process the grants.
    2. You use your OSS provider to process the grants only and you provide the contractors (SEAI approved only).


    Either way payment for the SEAI work will be processed via your OSS provider.

    If you are gettting non SEAI work done at the same time, say an extension, then you have SEAI and non-SEAI payments to consider.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Had my technical assessment done. Got the report. It's quite limited, just a table with items to improve and specific recommendations. I am a bit skeptical because the assessor included even brand names of roof insulation, windows and boiler. Surely I should be able to choose the specific brand of boiler I want to have. This table is followed by short summary at the end. This doesn't worth 600€ in my opinion.

    Anyway I am not sure what happens if I want to add extension to the house. Would I need specific plans drafted and reassessed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    I'm guessing you either quality for a grant or not.

    Take attic insultation, if the max. grant available for it is €1,300 then it doesn't matter if you extend your roof, or your current roof is bigger than your neighbours. You still only get €1,300 if you qualify.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    So just an update, after technical assessment (600€) Iam waiting to hear back from One Stop Shop regarding the cost of the works. I called them after not hearing anything for 3 weeks and they're telling me it will be at least another 2 weeks before I hear from them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Did they say another 2 weeks for the intial assessment report, or the actual quote for the works?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Dag12


    Quote for the works. I received the assessment report.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭circadian


    Im on the same boat, another one stop shop came back quicker with an insane quote that made no sense. I forwarded al the assesment details so they're working off the same data as the others. €30k to wrap a semi-d where my quotes from companies to just do the wrap were in the region of €11-14k.



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