Retrofitting

You can get an independent assessment done and report issued. You can then give that report to several one stop shops and ask for a detailed quote. There is a grant for this but you will have to wait for the official kick off if you want to claim it I hear sometime in Mar mentioned

At the moment they are prioritising lower rated houses so quite likely changing windows would be required.

Each potential improvement measure will be listed indicating the gain to be achieved. There is a sample report on the SEAI website.

Great thanks

According to the lady on RTE retrofitting our homes will only cost an extra one euro a month, hilarious altogether.

I have no experience. With regards to the technical assessment and BER. Do you need to choose the provider carefully or do they all have the same experience/training and follow the same procedure/reporting?

Remember when these SEAI “Experts” advise you that the be best thing for YOU for your house is to wrap it in External Insulation.

If your home has a Cavity constructed external wall with gables, then the cavity of the gable walls are normally not closed, so the NEW external insulation will be redundant, even if you do obtain an ‘A’ BER Cert.

When Heat gets a choice of escaping by either Conduction OR Convection, Convection always wins. (up up and away) 🔥🔥🔥

BryanF

I do not understand what remedy you are Specifying. Please explain what you are Specifying with your above comment and as follows:-?

”If the gable is a concern then add insulation to the inside of the gable up say a 1m distance, thus mitigating the thermal conduction”???????

I assume-absolutely not.

Lumen

BryanF offered a solution above on 24 April at 11.58. But I cannot understand what is stated. I replied and am waiting on a reply from BryanF.

Yes it’s possible to close the cavity on top of the gables and any other openings in the cavities.

My main concern is that the ventilation of the cavity prevents an increase in the moisture content of the First Floor joists ends which are built in to the inner leaf and in older houses the joist ends were not protected. The ventilation of the cavity prevents Dry Rot in the joists. This dampness enters the cavity below the DPC, and may also be caused by ingress of rainwater. The damp air in the cavity is increased in temperature by the heat loss from the house which heats the damp air in the cavity. The warm air Must rise up by Convection and this ventilates the damp air out of the cavities 24/7 and reduced the Relative Humidity of the cavity. (As a radio DJ says”its Magic” 😂😂)

Furthermore, it would necessitate a scaffolding, and the slates /tiles above the gable would need to be removed and the felt/ membrane cut out to get access to the open cavity of the concrete block walls to seal the Cavity.

Firstly this is very expensive and secondly I would not recommend this under any circumstances and thirdly I would not allow the SEAI /FAS expert EWI installers near any roof.

You also asked “are there any mitigations for this”.

Yes, everything is possible in buildings. €€€€€€€€€

My simple solution to stop warm air escaping from a ventilated cavity and making the EWI redundant, is to fill the cavity with an approved Insulation in accordance with the manufactures instructions.

This will cause the heat from the house - which is now prevented from escaping by Convection in the cavity - and Must escape through the wall and EWI by Conduction.

Obviously it’s not Magic - it’s Building Science.

I would love to hear the comments from the SEAI/FAS Expert EWI Insulation Installers to this solution, when you explain to them about the ventilated cavity, and Convection and that you want the cavity filled. Please post their comments here in this Forum. Now that would be Magic 🪄 🧙‍♀️. 😂😂😂😂😂.

I understand that.

But there are thousands of houses in Ireland where the cavities are not filled and EWI has been fitted, and updated BER Certs are issued.

And there will be many more houses in the future in Ireland with unfilled open cavities - fitted with EWI.

There are no Professionals with PI Insurance involved. When professionals with PI Insurance - have to sign a Certificate - they WILL ensure that they are not committing an act of Negligence.

When you are dealing with human beings you must always expect incompetence.

1. If there is no differences in the temperatures in the Attic and the external atmosphere then there will be no heat loss or very little heat loss from the Attic. Assuming the Attic in a Retrofitted Attic is now insulated and ventilated to the Building Regulations.

there is a difference the air in the attic and the external atmosphere that is why when we are doing a uvalue calculation we allocate it a resistance

taken from Part L building regulations appendix A calculation of U values

"Resistance of roof space 0.200" 

daithi

My reply was in relation to heat loss in an EWI house from a Ventilation Cavity where insulating the Inner-face of the external wall in the BR vented Attic was mentioned.

A Construction Professional specifying this construction to a Client would be committing an act of Negligent.

It should be axiomatic to a normal minded person [(should but?)] from reading my reply/s that I have an understanding of U Values, K values, etc, and the Building Regulations and Technical Guidance Documents, and Building Science and construction etc.

This Forum is also used by laypersons looking for simple uncomplicated unambiguous advice, and it is unethical of professionals to be giving links to the Building Regulations or Technical Guidance Documents to lay persons. Notwithstanding the fact many construction workers wouldn’t understand many of the Regulations or TGD’s.

Your comment-

• “There is a difference the air in the attic and the external atmosphere”

Every laypersons would be very aware of that wonderful scientific fact..

I have never seen a U value carried out on the membrane/ felt and slates/tiles on a uninhabited BR Attic, and it would be less useful than the redundant EWI on a Ventilated cavity and similarly as useless as the proposed internal insulation fitted on the inner face of a gable wall in a BR ventilated Attic void.

"it is unethical of professionals to be giving links to the Building Regulations or Technical Guidance Documents to lay persons"

It hasnt stopped you in the past 😁

It should be axiomatic to a normal minded person [(should but?)] from reading my reply/s that I have an understanding of U Values, K values, etc, and the Building Regulations and Technical Guidance Documents, and Building Science and construction etc.

how about psi values

it is unethical of professionals to be giving links to the Building Regulations or Technical Guidance Documents to lay persons. Notwithstanding the fact many construction workers wouldn’t understand many of the Regulations or TGD’s.

Pius vii "For you should have kept before your eyes the warnings which Our predecessors have constantly given, namely, that, if the sacred books are permitted everywhere without discrimination in the vulgar tongue, more damage will arise from this than advantage" pretty much what the catholic hierarchy was saying in 1816 or is it that you dont like our books being used to refute your advise

@C. Eastwood, if you wouldn't mind will you clarify something for me because I am a wee bit confused by your comments and emoji's etc.

I have a cavity walled house (bungalow) with 3 gable walls. The attic space is uninhabited, unheated and well ventilated. The cavities have been pumped with certified bonded bead insulation to the ridge. The walls have also been externally insulated (200mm rockwool).

Do you see any point in adding insulation to the inner leaf of the gable cavity walls in the attic?

well played micktheman that pretty much answered bryanF last post

"NO do not fix any insulation to the inside face of the inner leaf of the concrete block wall in the attic, as it would be totally redundant and a complete waste of money, and serve no purpose whatsoever."

So what about the thermal bridge?

chooseusername

Your answers are so long and so full of technological details - and are difficult for me to follow 😂😂 and read. Easy to know that you have put a substantial amount of research and logic and a lot of thought in to your query and apparently will only want to criticise my reply. 😂😂

I first assumed that you were asking a genuine question, but from reading other posts here it appears that you are only acting the Wally (nice word) with the rest of the clique.

Your comment as follows:-

“Set up” and “Well Played” This carry on by the clique is disgraceful and unbelievable so say the least, in this Forum where genuine people ask Real questions- and under normal circumstances should be entitled to and given free expert advice here. But unfortunately there are human beings involved, and as a friend of mine always says about some humans - “expect nothing from a Pig except a Grunt, and you shall never be disappointed”.

And someone else in the forum instructed me to “grow up”. 😂😂😂

However there are normal minded people readings this and I will continue to provide them with correct information requested by them.

I will use very nice words here which will not allow the clique to achieve their goal of - to be able to ban me from the forum, no matter how much they try.

it is not my fault that people here are discommoded (another new word for you to use 😂😂) because their EWI is redundant with their vented cavities. They themselves caused this problem. It is what it is. (Good advice here - only get advice from Construction Professionals). They could have availed of my expert free advise here in this forum😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I am delighted that I have expanded your vocabulary and you will now be able to be significant and impress your friends no ends with this New big word.

It is axiomatic 😂😂😂 that yourself and the clique want me to answer your query as follows:-

I didn’t say that. If I did I would have to clarify the ‘Problem’

In the funny sketch you displayed, there will never be a problem in the room below from a Cold Bridge. Condensation will never occur unless you were running a Laundrette and drying all the clothes on the Radiator in the room with the windows and door of the unvented room closed. Otherwise there will not be a condensation problem.

and no - you will not freeze to death in the room- no worries matey 🦘🦘🦘. Any person can stay in the room all day long very worried about the few half-watts heat loss up through the “thermal bridge”.

What is the best advice yourself and Mick would give in relation to the thermal bridge to a human being in the room getting ‘Paralysis by Analysis’ over the few watts escaping up their thermal bridge as per your sketch. It might be best to instruct them to insulate the entire wall in the Attic to stop them from worrying and might be cheaper than getting and treating mental health problems.

Mick thinks it’s a thermal bridge and maybe it’s a cold bridge, what do you diagnose? 😂😂

Micktheman is getting very excited about a “thermal bridge”.

I was going to ask the clique a Question - to explain to me the difference between A Cold Bridge and a Thermal Bridge, but it would probably cause Google to crash😂😂. -TV/Google/ Bannon/theory - Insulation/ cold bridge/thermal bridge experts 😂😂😂😂

Before one of you gets excited about the thermal bridge /cold bridge, and all the terrible heat loss of the few half watts as per your sketch there are many other factors. Thousands of houses were built to the 1992 BR which requires a 5000 mm2 permanent background vent in all habitable rooms, many houses had 1 or 2 open fireplaces. All houses must have purge ventilation as required by the BR. The back and front doors are opened many many times each day so that most of the heat loss from the room (down under) will occur by Convection and maybe-just maybe a silly smidgen of a few watts of heat from the room might go up through the inner leaf of the wall by Conduction OR maybe cold might travel down the inner leaf ☃️☃️☃️

And yourself and mick (genuinely😂😂) wishes to know if the uninsulated wall of the attic above the ceiling insulation in your sketch is a cold bridge and /or thermal bridge - of course it is. Most parts of the house are a Cold Bridge and a Thermal Bridge, and heat must flow out if there is colder air outside. So you decide where the thermal bridge/cold bridge starts or ends.

Its not Magic- it’s Building Science, and needs to be examined by Cost Analysis Benefit - how much expensive thermal insulation do you install to prevent small heat loss occurring. 🔥-v- €€.

You asked the question about my advice in relation to adding more insulation to the wall in your sketch, although I believe it is not a genuine question and is only asked for an ulterior motives- for the clique - I will answer it for the Genuine people reading it- there is no need to add any more insulation in the attic to the inner face of the wall leaf at the attic side to reduce the heat loss in the Thermal Bridge. No matter how much insulation you add you cannot eliminate the Thermal Bridge.

Now matter what thickness of EWI is installed together with super cavity fill insulation together with excellent internal wall insulation - the external walls will always be a Thermal Bridge. This is Building Science.

And bear in mind that in Ireland we have a very mild climate.

Here are some Excellent BR drawings from Homebond Right on the Site leaflets.

New houses should be done accordingly to comply with the BR.

In renovating an existing house, the way it’s shown on your funny sketch is perfectly fine.

I can’t wait for all the Scientific detailed replies I will receive, to increase my thermal insulation knowledge. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🙊🙈🙉

@WacoKid , might I suggest starting a dedicated thread for this, and keep it updated as you progress.

This one got contaminated and your experience would only get lost here.

Hopefully the cowboys will leave it to genuinely interested posters wishing to follow you along the way.

Good luck with it by the way.

Will do once the ball is rolling. 4-6 week wait with One Stop Shop providers for engagement, and then same for a formal quote on the technical assessment undertaken.