Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

D.L.R. · 21-01-2022 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509581#Comment_118509581

There was a lot wrong with it, was never going to get built even without the crash.

iffandonlyif · 21-01-2022 2:12pm

Five metro lines had been built in Rome, he said, despite the difficulties of construction in the historic city. “Try to imagine what it means to have done four, no, five lines in Rome. In a city like Rome, to dig 100m down in Rome, what does that mean? But we have done it!”

What classical heritage is to Rome, front gardens are to Dublin.

Anne Graham is quoted as saying at that event, ‘The impression MetroLink is postponed is something I’m surprised to hear because that is certainly not the case.’ A bit disingenuous given that the southern section was scrapped and no sensible person thinks NTA doesn’t still expect to make the Green Line conversion in the future.

Hotblack Desiato · 21-01-2022 7:05pm

It's been postponed. I wish they'd stop lying, they're not fooling anyone.

Peregrine · 21-01-2022 7:42pm

The more people keep saying it's been postponed, the easier it becomes to postpone it.

It hasn't been postponed. It hasn't even been brought to government where a decision to postpone it could be made. The last time it was brought to government was years ago. It's been horribly managed and is now very delayed both at design phase and construction phase. I've already posted their timeline for the next 12 years showing the extended construction phase. They're still working on the railway order application and the DoT and DPER are still reviewing the business case. Only then will it be brought to government.

cgcsb · 21-01-2022 8:23pm

"The more people keep saying it's been postponed, the easier it becomes to postpone it".

What else can people think? Project was announced 4 years ago (this version of it) and not even a planning application has been made. Human lifespans are limited and all. And there's been multiple versions of this project for the last 50 years.

LXFlyer · 21-01-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513787#Comment_118513787

To be fair every capital project (be it transport or whatever) now has to be brought to government twice - once prior to planning application and second time (and more importantly) after planning permission is granted.

But I have to again question the NTA's management of the process - no deadline has been met. They really are appalling at this.

CatInABox · 21-01-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514386#Comment_118514386

The entire process has also been rejigged thanks to the EU, we've now got to have public participation on major projects like this, way earlier in the process, and far more extensive too.

Podge_irl · 26-01-2022 11:12am

It is facing some delays, it has not been postponed. They are very different things.

jumpinsheep · 31-01-2022 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513787#Comment_118513787

Thanks for those screenshots; it seems they were probably made end of July 2021 (I guess that's what the blu vertical line there indicates).

In Nov 2021, newspapers articles started mentioning a possible 10 yrs delay, then the Taoiseach told the Dáil that MetroLink "has not been postponed for another decade", then NTA's CEO Anne Graham comments, etc. etc. - who knows how much the timeline has changed, from when those screenshots were taken...

Now that covid19 restrictions are being lifted, all the relevant parties will hopefully move swiftly with whatever needs to be done.

marno21 · 31-01-2022 10:10pm

Not sure if I/anyone else posted this here yet. There was an article in the Sunday Times in October saying that Level 5 restrictions had interrupted work at the Land Registry and this had caused lengthy delays in getting ready documents for the proposed CPO.

I've heard of other people having similar issues with Departments being shut from January 2021 for several months so this wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

marno21 · 01-02-2022 3:51pm

TII have tendered for MetroLink Client Partner Support Services

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/206201/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

13 year contract with a €200m contract value

Podge_irl · 01-02-2022 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561557#Comment_118561557

The Nov '21 articles were, bluntly, completely wrong and based on a pretty basic comprehension error of the latest NTA plan.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-02-2022 2:07pm

I'll start to believe it when there's a TBM in the ground.

CatInABox · 02-02-2022 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570310#Comment_118570310

Yeah, whether your an optimist or a pessimist regarding this project, I think that's a view we all hold.

marno21 · 03-02-2022 12:46pm

According to Peter Walsh, 13.5 years from now is a best case scenario.

2 years at An Bord Pleanala, 2.5 years of procurement and 8-9 years of construction.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40799475.html

Peregrine · 03-02-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575027#Comment_118575027

That.. doesn't make any sense. They've been talking about parallel procurement for years now. A bizarre statement from the CEO.

loyatemu · 03-02-2022 1:58pm

3 years further slippage in the 6 months since the most recent plan - impressive even by TII standards.

How could this be done quicker - surely other countries are capable of building a single metro line from conception to opening without it taking literally 20 years (and that's ignoring any previous work borrowed from Metro North).

xper · 03-02-2022 3:03pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-metrolink-to-be-delayed-until-2035-at-the-earliest-1.4792827

“You can imagine how people are alarmed after €88 million [sic], we don’t have a MetroLink. Can you understand that frustration Mr Walsh?” he said.

“Not really,” Mr Walsh responded. “I take your word for you if you are frustrated.”

Sickening stuff in front of the PAC this morning from the TII CEO. For that level of incompetence and indifference, he should not be in the role.

The NTA and TII seem to be trying to outdo each other in bad news this week.

marno21 · 03-02-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575893#Comment_118575893

I don't understand that frustration either, like the TII CEO. This is a multibillion euro project. There is absolutely no reason for frustration that MetroLink hasn't been built after €88m spent. It's a tiny proportion of the overall budget.

The 2021 construction start date and the 2027 completion date should have been revised years ago. They are wildly inaccurate.

Podge_irl · 03-02-2022 3:48pm

I mean, its a terribly phrased question though the response leaves something to be desired. The expenditure so far doesn't strike me as particularly out of the ordinary for a planning process of this scale. The focus should have been on the timeline slippage.

Peter Walsh, the chief executive of the agency that has primary responsibility for the project, told the Public Accounts Committee that the best-case scenario would see the project take 13.5 years until completion from the current date.

That allows two years for a railway order to be processed by An Bord Pleanala, 2.5 years for a procurement process for a contractor — which is likely to be a Public-Private Partnership — and between eight and nine years for construction and commissioning.

I would like to see his actual wording on this as it wouldn't be the first time the media got things confused. The 2 years for railway order and 2.5 years for procurement are not necessarily consecutive.

seamus · 03-02-2022 5:14pm

The UK and France built a 50km, two-way tunnel under a literal sea from proposal to operation in just under nine years.

How in the name of Jaysus can a 15km piece of rail across a relatively flat piece of land take 8-9 years to build? Never mind the insane lead time. I appreciate that building on land has more red tape, but for the love of god...

L1011 · 03-02-2022 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576728#Comment_118576728

After a century plus of plans and two aborted attempts, though

Zebra3 · 03-02-2022 7:25pm

And at the rate we’re “progressing”....

tom1ie · 03-02-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118575027#Comment_118575027

Why does it take 2 years at An Bord Pleanala?

Is it a lack of resources their or does that include public consultations or something?

I take it procurement can’t start until permission is granted by an Bord pleanala?

If so what happens to the staff of the NTA working on metro link, do they get transferred to bus connects or something?

Most importantly when are the NTA ready to go to an Bord pleanala?

tom1ie · 03-02-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576728#Comment_118576728

It’s the wrong type of limestone…….😬

marno21 · 03-02-2022 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577490#Comment_118577490

2 years at ABP because they are under resourced and as a result can’t meet deadlines. The M6 Galway ring road took 3 years for a decision and the Adare bypass is there over 2 years now. It should be said that 2 years isn’t a guarantee but it’s a reasonable estimate at the minute.

Procurement can start anytime but TII/DoT may want to wait because of a) the possibility of conditions imposed on the project by ABP which may change the design and the associated price or b) the possibility of the procurement costs being wasted in the event of the project not getting planning or any event which may put the project at risk. TII seem to be leaning towards the PPP approach here

It’s TII staff working on MetroLink rather than NTA staff, I’d imagine they’d be moved to other light rail projects (Luas Lucan/Bray/Poolbeg come to mind)

TII’s current timeline is Government approval in Q1 2022 and ABP submission in Q2 2022.

cgcsb · 03-02-2022 7:47pm

Looks like a padding exercise. I get the impression that TII don't want this job, they want motorways

dublinman1990 · 03-02-2022 8:54pm

Is there some lead time placed inside the current planning regulations legislation so that big infrastructure projects like Metrolink has delays set in stone into it on purpose.

Let's say if the various parts of DART+ or the CBC's with BC Dublin were facing the same issues within those two agencies. Would they be a big chance in attempting to make slow progress in getting them built.

I think this might be the big issue citing the lack of resources within ABP to process or to fast-track Metrolink quickly; it would need to be sorted out soon. This could allow other projects that were previously approved by them were given the go ahead to get them built.

I would suspect if that is the big issue that needs to be sorted out within ABP are having a massive knock on effect to other projects that have entered the planning system already or have yet to enter it.

Pete_Cavan · 03-02-2022 9:36pm

Surely ABP should have lots of resources available - Galway Ring Road is out of there, Adare/Foynes will besoon, SHDs winding down. Are there any other large projects at Cabinet approval stage? Metrolink should get the attention it needs.

Goldengirl · 03-02-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118576728#Comment_118576728

There were fewer objections I would imagine from the neighbours 😉

Mind you, we haven't even got to that stage yet.

We have form in Dublin though.

I originally worked in Paeds nursing and would have been looking forward to working in The New Cbildrens' Hospital when I started my career in Ireland.

Roll on 40 years nearer to retirement, and still no new hospital built!

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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