Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Kevtherev1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282296#Comment_121282296

From the article the following paragraph.

A project brief and procurement strategy submission has now been delayed from the second quarter of 2023 until the end of the year, pre-tender approval for the needed contracts has been delayed until the start of 2024, and most notably the timeline for receiving approval for construction from An Bord Pleanala has now been pushed out by nine months until the end of next year.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282312#Comment_121282312

It is, however, just further evidence of the appalling state that ABP has been allowed devolve into.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282351#Comment_121282351

Again, it's not news. The oral hearing hasn't happened yet. Christmas next year is actually optimistic.

AngryLips

The longer this gets dragged out for, the more the needs of the city will change, until such time that Metrolink is no longer fit for purpose (see Metro North). Fact is, the whole project is already looking that way as is.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282628#Comment_121282628

Fact is, the whole project is already looking that way as is.

How so?

MJohnston

My kingdom for a thread which is just dry progress updates (I know I'm adding to the chaff here but still)

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282725#Comment_121282725

Because demand projections anticipate that green line will need to be upgraded to metro and the longer it takes to deliver current Metrolink, the less Metrolink makes sense as a northside only service.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283139#Comment_121283139

Ah, that's a relatively easy fix that will almost certainly be done in the future anyway. The Green Line upgrade is an inevitability, the delay just makes removing it from the plan seem a lot sillier. Doesn't change the fundamentals Metrolink.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282202#Comment_121282202

Hardly a surprise that the whole thing is so far up the left that we'll be fortunate to see the damn thing before 2040. Who benefits?

cgcsb

That surprises me since DART+ got to oral hearing 14 months after lodging,

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282256#Comment_121282256

the can, the kick and the road.

You would actually suffer from serious metal health issues in this country if you were passionate about rail infrastructure development.

ArcadiaJunction

I am going to make a prediction.

Metro will be shelved (they had no intention of building it anyway)

Luas Finglas extrended to the airport and treated like CrossRail by the politicians and media

You can go on all you like on here about 'best practice' and 'too slow' but OUT THERE no ones cares what you think and they'll be bought off with the Airport Luas no problem.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288776#Comment_121288776

I don't agree. Look at the reaction to the Green Line going beyond capacity a few years back, if they didn't already have the Luas tram extension project on the go, there would definitely have been a project to relieve the pressure on the Luas. I'd say that the NTA are saying that any Luas out to the airport will have exactly the same optics, requiring a Metro to solve the problem.

LambshankRedemption

My dad moved here in the 60's and there was talk of the metro back then.

The advantage of an underground is there wont be NIMBYism. You can't complain, actually, as I type this I know there will be complaints. "Its tunnelling under my house! My coffee table vaibrates!" etc.

We can easily afford it. Just go build it.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288765#Comment_121288765

I know. I get excited about these things.

Imagining myself coming back from the airport on a new Metro.

I got excited by the College Green Plaza also.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288776#Comment_121288776

I don't agree.

If our economy remains relatively stable, it'll definitely be built.

We need to open up new land for housing and this facilitates this perfectly.

We just have to be patient I guess.

yer man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288876#Comment_121288876

My expectations for rail projects in Ireland have stooped so low and now just get excited when the local train station gets a new bin

Podge_irl

The "they never seriously planned to build it" conspiracy theory requires a serious suspension of any and all political logic.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288864#Comment_121288864

I'm curious about this post. What was the 60s proposal? The earliest iteration to my knowledge was the 1975 DART plan.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289485#Comment_121289485

I dont know, I wasnt around then and I can't ask him. It may not have gotten as far as a proposal, just talk.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289283#Comment_121289283

Chorttle, and invoke the 'conspiracy theory' cognitive dissonance all you want, but when you are not getting on a Metro in 2040 you might then wake up to the fact that political logic is the biggest 'conspiracy theory' of them all.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289885#Comment_121289885

Announcing it, spending hundreds of millions and years of effort on it, taking up time, money and effort from other projects, all while deliberately planning to cancel it makes them look much worse than just not doing anything. It is an utterly stupid theory that has no sense behind it whatsoever.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288885#Comment_121288885

Yep. Back in the 90s was new hanging flower baskets for stations. This country is run by barely sentient morons and always will be.

I was born 1961, from a young age listened to my mother giving out about how Todd Andrews (Tubridy’s grandfather) closed down rail routes not long before I was born, including the Harcourt Street to Shankill line, upon sone of which the Green LUAS line has been developed since. Ireland once had an extensive slow rail network, but was being replaced with plans for more roads and bus routes.

In the 1960s Dublin Airport was a small but, for this country, advanced operation, and a very cool place to visit. Only the most wealthy could afford to fly, and a lot of passengers were business travellers including my father. My parents were friends of chief air controller, Tom Donovan, so I got to visit the control tower from infancy, later got to train as a leisure pilot. By far the majority of people visiting the airport aren’t actually flying out of it, but visiting it out of curiosity or as a day out, a free alternative to the zoo. It had a well known restaurant, very popular for a special treat of a Sunday afternoon. There were viewing balconies on the old terminal, always a crowd waving off people with coloured scarfs.

But there wouldn’t have been much call for regular airport users, pax & staff to use a metro back then. Flights were few, but growing of course, and if you were wealthy enough to fly you had a car or business use of one. Car parking was east, my Dad would pull up right in front of the terminal, no bother. There was a regular bus out from Busáras, but it wouldn’t be that very frequent. Swords was only really a village at that time.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289893#Comment_121289893

Like I said. 2040 and no Metro by then. I can assure you of this. The entire Irish political establishment depends on child-like notions that Irish politicans are all by default paragons of virture and 'shure don't we call them by their first names'

2040 no metro and the Irish who claim to be non stupid will still be defending them.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291223#Comment_121291223

2040 is 16 years away. A lot can change, but the work going on in the back ground feels far more advanced than any other previous project.

Quite simply though, it can't not go ahead. If no construction has started by 2030 then I'll be worried, if by 2040 no running trains, then yeah its a major problem. But if by 2040 there isn't a tbm in the ground then it will never happen.

marathon2022

The Green Party MEP representing Dublin, Ciaran Cuffe, is once again distributing flyers(I live in swords). It's notable that the some of the focus of these flyers is around transportation issues, with a surprising absence of any mention of the Metrolink project. mmmm

Added to this omission and IMHO even more concerning is the suspicion that the public reversal of Minister Ryan's stance on his recommendation for a reconsideration of MetroLink, which appeared at the time to be driven mainly by his concern for his southside constituents(electorate). This appeared to be more of a political move than a genuine commitment to improving transportation infrastructure, casting doubt on the future of this crucial project. It's disheartening to observe that the Green Party, while in government, seems to neglect the transportation needs of the northside, leaving its residents with only congested roads filled with polluting diesel buses. Perhaps it's time to consider alternatives, as the actions and statements of the Green Party are causing doubt and frustration, Very fVcking frustrating. If a government with a green party in a position of power cant get this project out of the engineers wallets what chance does it have?

What party of the ones likely to be in power after the next election (SD, FF, FG, Labour and the fing greens) would be most likely not to shelve it?

This needs to happen

Murph85

Im just waiting for the cancellation on cost saving grounds... Then inflation can double the cost of this newer cheaper scheme, designed to save a billion or two...

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291223#Comment_121291223

Like I said. 2040 and no Metro by then. I can assure you of this.

You can't, but it's entirely beside the point of your idiotic conspiracy theory. If the Metrolink is not delivered it will be incompetence, not some masterplan to never build it while wasting a decade pretending to.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291513#Comment_121291513

their masterplan is to look like they are actually going to deliver something for years, then can it at the first opportunity. Also you cant get more incompetent than this country. They will ditch the metro, spend it on a few buses, that go nowhere in gridlock and that they dont have drivers for! "Dublin metro cancelled but alternative scheme mooted"

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291541#Comment_121291541

their masterplan is to look like they are actually going to deliver something for years, then can it at the first opportunity.

WHY would that be a plan. It does nothing but make them look incompetent. Also they have had about 70 opportunities to can it, so the "first opportunity" is well in the rear view mirror. They have pushed on against frankly hysterical objections already.

The only chance of this not being built is a change in government and even then I think it's a small chance as long as the general economic situation and cheap access to debt remains.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291557#Comment_121291557

I agree about the change in government would reduce the chance of it being built. Its not guarantee if will be built with the same government in place. Varadkar acknowledged the issue with infrastructure spending being slashed, when recessions hit and the bad consequences of it. I believe they now want to put billions aside for an infrastructure fund, to avoid this happening in future. Its a no brainer and obviously very positive, if it does happen... Read about that in the irish times last week.

Sam Russell

I do not think the Irish Times would ever be considered pro Metrolink - or any rail infrastructure.

dublinman1990

If this project is being built to reduce the effects of climate change; the government along with TII & the NTA would feel like stupid fools in the eyes of the public in not building it by 2040. If Ireland does not deliver the Metrolink for Dublin when it gets to the planning permission comes around by Christmas of next year; the government would be sued, by all of the companies who are currently involved in building it, for loss of earnings.

I still think that the loss of earnings for not building Metrolink is still unquantified at the moment given the amount of money that is being put aside for the project. Not only is there a huge amount of money being put at risk here; there is also a huge amount of jobs on the line that will lost for people who work in the construction sector and other sectors of the economy if this project ultimately gets scrapped. Not only that; there would also be the misery of paying out massive fines which would come from the EU if ABP decides to cancel Metrolink at that point in 2024.

Let's just answer these two very basic questions for ourselves; Do we want to surround ourselves with the disasterious optics of scrapping it when we currently have a successful economy at the moment? Or will we be happy to let it slide just to allow some other inferior project become more of a priority if Metrolink gets cancelled between now and 2040?

My answer to those two questions should be that the government and the other state transport agencies should get this project to reduce this massive amount of risk upon themselves when the project goes ahead in the near future. If other transport projects were built to complement Metrolink; that would be a very good idea. However building these projects like a luas to the airport to ultimately replace Metrolink could possibly very foolish in itself.

Pete_Cavan

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this "it'll never happen" crap should result in an immediate thread ban. It adds nothing to the conversation and only causes arguments. If you have no interest in discussing the project or how it is progressing, you have no business posting in this thread.

cgcsb

I'm scratching my head wondering where the Examiner got their 'end of 2024' date from, its just not what I'm hearing on the ground, oral hearing is expected soon. The examiner article is hysterically anti metrolink to the point of mouth frothing, a begrudging Cork tirade really. Sort of unbecoming for a broadsheet.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291802#Comment_121291802

Some people get off on being naysayers and harbingers of doom.

I'm pretty certain it'll happen once our economy stays relatively stable.

There might be another recession around the corner with China, UK and Germany having some trouble but it will be nothing compared to 08.

Is there anyway to speed it up once it starts? Can you put a tunnel boring machine at either end or is the cost prohibitive?

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291988#Comment_121291988

Can’t bore from the city out as all the spoil would have to be transported through the city and all the materials would have to be brought in through the city. Also probably not a practical place to actually start as it would need a large site

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291988#Comment_121291988

I personally think the construction timescale given is padded to hell. There will be three construction contracts, one involving a TBM. Another TBM would be more hindrance than help on such a short tunnel.

Rolling stock construction will also be happening at the same time. As the northern civil works contracts finish up, they should be able to start systems fit out while the TBM is still boring further south. The depot will be important, if the PPP Co get that, they may be able to able to start testing rolling stock before tunnelling is finished.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292066#Comment_121292066

Let's hope so.

I think it'll make us look like a real modern city to any business people flying in and tourists also.

It'll change the fabric of the city also. Ballymun will gentrify a good bit. I'd imagine modern apartments built next to Ballymun and Northwood stops would be very attractive to tech workers.

15 minutes to town and 5 minutes to the airport.

Hotblack Desiato

Let's not get too carried away, it's just (half of) a metro line

It's not the metro system the city desperately needs.

So Dublin will still be a city with primitive PT dominated by buses and little or no bus priority.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304989#Comment_121304989

You and I will be well dead before the system gets built.

This Dublin <-> Swords won't be completed until 2035 at the absolute earliest, and the way things are going it could be 2045 (I'll be retired by then hopefully)

They "probably" won't start the second part of it until the first be is completed. The situation in Dublin could be vastly different by then and it might not be needed.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291513#Comment_121291513

It will be Political Corruption which is an actual conspiracy among well connected types to line the pockets of themselves and their associates and it has been literally the history of this state at least since WW2. That is not a 'theory' by any means.

ArcadiaJunction

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291802#Comment_121291802

It adds reality and pragmatism based on experience and historical prescident to the conversation, and last time I checked this is not North Korea. Well not yet anyway.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306175#Comment_121306175

No this is not North Korea but boards.ie has specific rules about posting constructively. Once you have said you think Metrolink won't happen, there is nothing more you can contribute.

Zebra3

It’s not North Korea.

They have a metro!! 😄

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306164#Comment_121306164

You forgot to end your post with #fact

Doesn't count now.

(you are correct, it's not a theory, its an easily provable lie)

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306164#Comment_121306164

Large scale political corruption in Ireland, the type that would involve contracts over €100m, died a violent death in the early 2000s it was effectively banned by EU led rules. Political corruption still exists but you're talking about catering contracts, a few toilet role dispensers things that go under the value of tendering rules.

To give you an idea, a few months ago the government and opposition were slinging mud at eachother over a matter of €40.50 in delivery of undisclosed election posters. That would have been laughed at in 1980 by politicians in their personal helicopters. The companies involved in metrolink will be billion or trillion euro valued global companies with reputations worth many multiples whatever contract they stand to get through coerce means. Assuming they've found some way to bypass the thousands of checks in a multi layered tender process.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307314#Comment_121307314

Street signs and bollards 😅

gjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306164#Comment_121306164

Ireland suffers very little corruption in comparison with the rest of the world. It's mostly bobbed about at around the top 5% in lists of the least corrupt countries globally. You should look around the world a little bit - a smidgen of international perspective could help temper your endless, tedious and generally unfounded negativity about the country.