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This whole cancel culture myth

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Have you got empirical evidence that racism exists? If not, then I expect you to retract your statement. Holding you to your standard that is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Worst thing I've seen posted on this thread is someone claiming they find Alex Jones entertaining 😬



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's the sort of hypocritical response I was expecting. Provide nothing and expect everything. Once you provide your objective proof, I'll provide mine. Go on.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can we agree that the "empirical evidence" bar is ridiculous then? We should be able to agree on the basic parameters of discussion hopefully.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Where did I say that? Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying there is no scientific evidence that either of them exist as ideas. I'm not equating the two things and saying they are the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Apothic_Red


    OP back.

    I suppose what I was getting at is the overuse, or improper use, of the term cancelling.

    Someone offers a differing opinion to the hive mind nowadays & you hear that they are cancelled. Then you look into it & their circumstances are completely unaffected. If cancelling is a true weapon it lacks any real sanction in many cases, only gleams noteriety for the perpetrator & ridicule for the easily offended who get hit with the PC/snowflake/woke smeer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,386 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Hive mind is also a smear. Another version of Sheeple.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It would be if you hadn't been disingenuous earlier. You can't lie about me and then expect me to take your word as gospel. Since you have provided nothing, I'm dismissing this myth as the nonsense it patently is.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    By far the biggest problem in my humble is the increasing trend of hardline partisanship on all sides. 'Cancel culture' is but one of the symptoms, as are the 'right', the 'woke', the 'fascists' the 'antifascists' and all that other imported from the US utterly retarded bollocks. It's quite evident on this very thread. A position is taken and held onto for dear fúcking life and blind tit for tat is the result.

    In online and increasingly offline discussion - and I use the term loosely - anyone that makes even the slightest concession with the opposing view and tries to meet halfway(god forbid), is either seen as suspicious and/or jumped on as some admission of the guilt the true believer must see in the sinner and/or it's seen as being noncommital even traitorous to the personal cause. So we end up in a world of moronic mouthpieces mindlessly and endlessly screaming bollocks like rape culture, woke, SJW, fascists.

    That's if they ever leave their echo chambers of course, which is increasingly rare too. Where the opposing sides do meet you can be damned sure that each side will be convinced that the stage on which they rant is an echo chamber of the other. That's a pretty good litmus of exposure to different ideas, because it's quite clear people flip out when they hear them.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    You're saying there is no scientific evidence that -racism- exists? Really?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yep. Beyond pathetic. When all else fails, deploy whataboutery and false equivalences with a sound helping of both sides.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    To me ... the meaning of cancel culture is blurred. There's like three different meanings to it (at least I think)

    First is digging something up from some celebrity/public figure's old social media, old interview etc and trying to use that to get someone black balled.

    Next is celeb/public figure saying something that just divides people - which is too easy to do in this world - and then those who get so offended by it try to use that to get someone black balled (Dave Chapelle comes to mind)

    Last is cause and effect. That's not cancel culture. Like say I was a famous actor and I say something mad like "the nazis were right about the jews" on twitter (or whatever) that's my career gone and people turning against me. That's not cancel culture. That's me being dumb and torpedo'ing my career.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You say I "provided nothing" when you asked for "empirical evidence" that cancel culture exists. You basically ask for the impossible and then when I can't oblige you say I've "provided nothing".


    Sorry but you are the one who is being disingenuous and we both know it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yeah but I dont think you'll see him on Netflix or SNL any time soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    what is the difference between the first and second meaning apart from time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Anytime I hear of something being dragged up from somebody's past, I think of Liam Gallagher's altercation with a photographer in 2001. Has this had any negative impact on him - no. Seems like some people (good looking bad boys?) are uncancellable. Even if they call someone a gay boy's f*ggot's arse kebab dick w*nker who makes Dale Winton's drawers (underpants?) look bad.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P4JAP5Bf_Wo



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I was responding to a ridiculous post asking for objective evidence or empirical evidence that cancel culture exists. I was saying that it's not possible to provide a scientific formula for something like this but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


    I then drew an analogy to racism. There is no scientific objective evidence that racism exists, but I think we can all agree that it does exist, right? Is there something wrong with my logic? Is there scientific evidence that racism exists that I might be missing? If so, can you provide it?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I was using your own logic against you. So what you describe there actually describes your own thought process.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nah. It's blatant hypocrisy, let's be honest. Thanks for admitting you have no evidence. Means we can mark this as done.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you might prove you are the bigger person and respond to my request for objective proof that racism exists then. I'll wait.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Once you provide yours, I'll provide mine. Go on.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I thought we'd agreed that I am an inferior human being and can't provide evidence of cancel culture. I made the point that it still exists even if you can't scientifically prove it. Similar to racism. You can't prove it exists but most reasonable people (like me) are willing to admit that it exists.


    For that you conclude I have "provided nothing". I agree by your insane standards I've provided nothing.


    Now I ask to hold you to your own standards and prove once and for all your superiority. And you are too scared to take that next step, because you have got nothing. Diddly squat.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    There's mountains of proof that racism exists. I don't provide links to people who continually tell lies about me and back up none of their own claims when asked. I'll respond when you provide something of value instead of yet more baseless deceit but otherwise, I'm done with this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've tried multiple times to try and meet you halfway and at least agree on some basic things. But each time I extend an olive branch you refuse it and cite something from a previous post as an excuse. The proof is in the thread. Just read back through it if you want "empirical evidence".


    I would say we can agree to disagree, but you won't even agree with that statement probably!



  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    Never mind that but they completely LIE about her opinions, they say she wants to KILL transgender people .

    BBC, Guardian MSM of course won't say this, but they won't correct it either and will go along with the shunning of her.


    Shameful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    Stop spreading misinformation.

    Trump actually told them to peacefully march to the capital entrance, he specifically asked for non violence.


    funny the way youtube removed that video ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭Rothko




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You don't have to like him or agree with him to find him entertaining. I find Joe Biden entertaining in a car crash kind of way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Boll*ox. He was egging them on for literally years. A token call for non-violence, not that I believe there was even that, changes nothing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Sir Tim Hunt was probably one of the earliest, and still one of the most egregious examples.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,161 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The thing with Hunt is that it really wasn't about him. Universities here are run like businesses. I've heard department heads being told that if they need money to cobble together a masters and flog it for £10,000 a year. A misogynistic dinosaur like Hunt is appalling for business. I don't know if sacking him was right but it was monumentally stupid of him to come out with what he did. He brought it on himself.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I'll answer your question with a question then explain. Sound fair?

    Have you ever said anything online from years previous that you wouldn't agree with now? Be it twitter, Facebook or even here on boards? You've grown. Your mentality has changed right? I'm on boards 10 years. I know if I go looking at my old posts from then am sure I'll squirm and go nahhhhhh. So thats the first part. Digging things up from the past. Especially when younger and more immature. Perhaps even said out of anger at one point. Things you regret. Things that were not right.

    The second part is saying something divisive right now - you don't even have to try hard these days. Perhaps you are a famous actor and say you supported trump, perhaps you say you don't like vaccines or take your pick. You are simply voicing your opinion (something you shouldn't do as a celebrity but that's a different topic) but people try and cancel you. People wanna see you black balled. People wanna see you never work a day again in your life. All because you have a different opinion to theirs. You didn't say anything that could be seen as hate speech, you simply think differently to them.

    That's the difference between 1 and 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    he wasn't voicing a divisive opinion on twitter or vaccines. his twitter posts were racist and misogynistic. It was not stuff that was OK then but isn't now. The stuff he posted was never OK. Well maybe 50 or 60 years ago before social media existed but that is before he was born so no excuse. if he honestly thought it was OK to post that stuff and it would never be found out he is as dumb as a box of rocks. he got what he deserved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    That seems like a very fundamentalist attitude you have there, feeling free to sum up his character on the basis of one (bad) joke...the context of which was largely ignored. He deserved everything he got because you disapprove of him, in other words.

    You're right, though, in that it's not the Twitter mob who ultimately get to do the cancelling, but people in positions of authority who their seem to terrify. One can only hope that eventually some organisation will have the spine to say something like "When we outsource our HR function to the Twitter mob, we'll let you know, until then it's none of their damned business who we employ."

    I have a problem with mob rule, whether it's pulling down careers or pulling down statues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The comments were of the 'true but awkward' variety like where he said that women sometimes cry at work.

    I was in a job where a woman employee cried in the workplace and my manager used to lie about it and say it didn't happen.

    If we can't handle someone telling the truth off the cuff about banal aspects of life, and have to fire a Nobel laureate, what does indicate about us? If our dislike of accurate observations of human nature is that stark how do we make serious progress in the sciences which are totally dependent on 100% unflinching honesty?

    Saying it was a "business decision" doesn't really restore my faith in University College London.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, they weren't. They were base misogyny and nothing more.

    UCL is one of the world's best Universities. Somehow, I think it will survive losing your faith.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    How in the blue hell is Alex Jones cancelled he is still making a mint out of what he believes or it totally made up depending on what he is trying to defending himself against. He started talking about how a school shooting was not real and everyone was a crises actor even going as so far as reveling stuff about the people to the people who were getting death threats and been harassed. What you say and do in the public can have consequences. You can't just go and say what you want about anyone and just expect them to take it.


    Would you like it if someone started saying you are a murderer or other stuff and started harassing you, your family or friends. Jones is quiet rightly seeing those consequences so much so he made the judge so mad he decided to go ahead with the trial with the only thing to decided is how much he owes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Nothing he said rose above the banal like commenting about men and women falling in love at work, basically just saying that it does happen.

    A professor from Trinity College Dublin then accused him of "suggest[ing] that labs are segregated", which he didn't do.

    He apologised but his apology was not accepted essentially so then he had to be "cancelled" (let go). Poor stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'UCL is one of the world's best Universities. Somehow, I think it will survive losing your faith.'

    Well you're the one indicating it's run along the lines of some sort of cynical corporate business, that in itself is chipping away at my regard for UCL.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,538 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Well, I'm not going to read every word he's ever written. It's almost impressive. Nobody has any idea what work he's done or what he's published. Just that he's just another grubby man who looks down on women.

    As I said in my first post in this thread, this is the consequence of turning everything into businesses. CEO's don't want aggro and so will just choose the path of least resistance. There's no gain to keeping hold of someone who thinks this sort of sh*te is ok when you're specifically looking to get more women into research and learning. It's that simple.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    If you want to be blunt about mental health at least get it right. I quoted more and worse tweets he had in my post. Your post was belittling what he got fired for and I pointed out there was more to it than what you stated. Especially as you mentioned it was 2 tweets specifically when there was more than that and quite frankly in my opinion worse tweets that did more damage to him than the ones you quoted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    God you are obsessed!!!

    Your definition of "bigot" is quite broad I would say .... quite broad.

    You see Right Wingers everywhere....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Plus I say Hartley Sawyer will go the way of Mel Gibson and make some bit of a comeback in a bit of time. Kevin Spacey has started to get work again



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    I hadn’t realised that he was that bad. I’m watching motherland, one of his, and I feel a bit icky now. I mean that’s real hate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Bigots really do seem to hate “labels” and just want to get on with their lives. Along with hating anything that doesn’t fit in with their, extremely, narrow and angry world view, of course.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I can watch Father Ted or those shows as it is the people doing the shows who make them good not just a person.



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