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This whole cancel culture myth



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭ BruteStock

    You don't know anything about Kepernick. You don't know anything about the season where he had all that success. People argued back then weather he was as good as Russell Wilson and many believed he wasn't

    See people forget at one point it was going to be the new Brady vs Manning rivalry- Wilson vs Colin. But the first year of a QB almost proves nothing as NFL defences will put you under a microscope and study you and implement things to stop you the next season. If you're good enough and talented enough you can overcome it. But if you aren't you WILL be exposed and very quickly. And Colin got exposed very quickly as basically a flash in the pan. And it was worse because of the huge contract he had received.

    Ever watch the film Moneyball? White ball players are subjected to just as much anatomy and physiology micro management as footballers. But hey , lets compare that to slavery and all clap like seals too , shall we?

  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ hawley

    The difference is that they all apologized for criticizing Israel. Natalie Portman is Israeli so it's a different situation. The reality is that if they didn't apologize, they would have been finished.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,851 ✭✭✭ Gregor Samsa

    I didn’t think “cancel culture” let you away with a mere apology!

    Also of note that he only apologised for the single word “genocide”, saying that hyperbole wasn’t helpful. He didn’t apologise for calling for sanctions or describing the treatment of Palestinians as “apartheid”.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,851 ✭✭✭ Gregor Samsa

    Surely the common term for describing the state of someone who allegedly falls “victim” to cancel culture is “cancelled”? I don’t get why you’d be denying that phrase. Or do you think they have been “cancel cultured”?

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,648 ✭✭✭ Quantum Erasure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,851 ✭✭✭ Gregor Samsa

    Surprised you’re not insisting on “a survivor of cancel culture”.

    I think I’ll stick to the common term “cancelled” as a verb, and indeed an adjective, all the same.

    Post edited by Gregor Samsa on

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭ Slutmonkey57b

    I think the worst part of this is "C.K. apologized to Corry, as he did to several of these women, saying he was sorry for pushing her into a bathroom—which Corry says never happened, and suggests that there are other stories that haven’t been told."

    The absolute best case scenario is that Louis CK forced female underlings to watch him masturbate, repeatedly, over a number of years. Sexual assault is a crime that doesn't get punished harshly enough and it's generally one that doesn't go away over time where perps are concerned. This was 4 years ago. IMO, he should have been jailed then and should still be in jail now.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,401 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    This topic is bound to be mentioned in the same breath as the phrase cancel culture over the coming days.

    For the record, even though many will try to spin it as such, this isn't them trying to cancel him, they said as much in that they are not calling for the removal of the podcast.

    The crux of the debate in relation to Rogan is this, should someone be allowed to spread a narrative even though qualified people say that what they are doing is false, and harmful?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    Yes he should. For reasons which shouldn't even need explaining.

    It looks overall as if we will be returning to some sort of pre-18th century standard of discourse where people with unsanctioned opinions discussed them in secrecy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,401 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    They definitely do need explaining. We have laws against inciting violence or people to commit crime and the reason for those laws is that they benefit of society.

    Rogan, anyone else, broadcasting misinformation is or definitely has resulted in people dying. Why should that be acceptable? And as with the message from the experts, it isn't that people are saying he should be taken off the air, but that there should be aclear communication beside his show that the information is an opinion which is at odds with those of experts in the field.

    It's not to silence Rogan, its to protect Rogan's listeners.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    Yeah, but that doesn't sound as good, or as outrageous, as...

    hawleyJan 14, 2022

    John Cusack went from a big Hollywood star to a straight to video man after he starting criticizing Obama's drone attacks and Israel's treatment of Palestinians. The ADL tried to smear him as anti Semitic due to one tweet taken out of context. If you step out of line in Hollywood, you're finished.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭ riclad

    There's famous actors who can no longer get roles because the were accused of sexual harassment or bad behavior , maybe cos of accusations from the me too movement, I don't think mariyln Manson will be getting invited to many music festivals soon, you can get cancelled for sexist abusive behavior ,

    Ellen's show is ending because the workers at the show were treated badly, eg take time off if you are sick you get fired there's loose rules of behavior in the TV industry most people are not in unions, this is true in the gaming industry too , Activision is being sued by the local government for sexist abusive behavior by managers towards women and ethnic minoritys you can get cancelled and simply no longer get offered roles in movies or TV shows its not a myth its not a legal process unless women come forward and accuse someone of real criminal behavior I think some actors are so rich and famous they assume they can have sex with any woman they meet. I'm surprise Mel Gibson was not cancelled he was caught on tape insulting jews and making awful comments about his wife.

    Ellen will be fine she has millions she, ll probably go on an Oprah interview and say I'm sorry and in a few years act on shows as the good friend or small character parts.

    Her persona is ver nice kind funny presentor but behind the scenes her staff were being treated badly

    If you watch the cheer tv show on netflix about cheerleaders it turns out one of the main characters was accused of serious sexual harassment of young fans it was mentioned in the second series its not a surprise some rich famous people are sexist arrogant so and so, s in real life and this includes female or male actors I think it's up to the public too if people stop going to an actors films or watching them and other people dont, t work with them they are cancelled whether they committed a crime or not

    I think woody Allen's career is over now since various revelations came out about his behavior towards younger women I think Prince Andrew is being cancelled he has no longer any military or royal dutys , bad joke, since he is an expensive legal battle in the USA facing serous accusations from a young women

    He may be like the singer from the 80s

    The man formerly know as prince .

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    I don't think shutting Rogan down will accomplish anything. There'll be another grubby little grifting cultural parasite along to replace him in no time.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭ storker

    Indeed. There's a big difference between trying to damage someone's careers because they said something that went against the social zeitgeist, and trying to stop them from spreading dangerous misinformation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭ sekiro

    A potential problem could be what would we do in a situation where qualified people are wrong or, even worse, corrupted?

    We do have historic examples of that kind of thing. Chernobyl. Robert Bilott vs DuPont. Etc.

    In the internet age this stuff becomes a bit more complex because people in the past would have needed the support of a radio or TV station or a newspaper to facilitate getting the truth out there. On one hand this provides an additional check on the validity or claims. On the other hand it allows an opportunity for corruption.

    I think what people like Rogan need to do is introduce a bit more balance and responsibility into their broadcasts. I think when CNN went after him they used some objectively underhand tactics (most hilarious of which was applying a filter to one of his original videos to make him look worse) and this just damages their own credibility and makes him look at bit more like "that are resorting to this because he tells the truth".

    We just refuse to learn from history don't we?

    Three years ago a lot of people I know would be very anti-capitalist and would not trust the government and would absolutely be all for whistle-blowers exposing the stuff these companies get up to.

    These days some of the same people are outraged that others won't inject a Pfizer's product into their body. When did these companies and governments actually earn our trust?

    Rogan should be fact checked. However we should be asking "who fact checks the fact checkers?"

    Can't shake the feeling that we are on the brink of something bad. We are being sold the story that these alternative voices are deadly and dangerous but where should we place our trust? In the mainstream media? The government? Corporations?

    Feels like there is no winning move there. Shut down the independent voices and we run the risk of never knowing the truth. Listen to them and we run the risk of being deceived.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    I have a bit of time for Rogan and I like his podcast although I haven't listened to it in a while. He lets his guest speak, which is a lot more than can be said for regular late night interviewers on American TV. Plus, his guests aren't always there to merely hock their wares. He also has guests on that span various points of view too and more importantly there's an actual conversation being had.

    I also actually like the fact that he can have someone like Alex Jones on his show, because that particular show did a lot to reveal just how batshit crazy Jones is.

    I wouldn't be so quick to label Joe Rogan as a "grubby little grifting cultural parasite" though. I think he's just a bloke whose podcast became extremely popular. He may have been popular with the Alt right crowd in the beginning, but his own views alienated that crowd pretty quickly. They now consider him a "liberal". I remember a bit of a backlash because he agreed with Sanders on a number of issues when Bernie was on his show.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    Really? I see the opposite. There seem to be legions of people who seem to be genuinely convinced that he doesn't lie. On this site, I've been accused of wanting him dead because I criticised him for publicly eschewing the vaccine and taking Ivermectin. Frankly, it comes across like he's either anti-vaxx but too disingenuous to be open about it or he's trying to grow his base.

    I used to think he was a bit "out there". He's clearly a big MMA man, likes his recreational drugs and does seem to have a wide range of guests on but it's muck like this that's convinced me that he's just as I described him in the post you responded to:

    He's called out on his BS so he just moves the goalposts. I see nothing to be impressed by here.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭ patnor1011

    He just have different view than you and somehow I do not think he cares about how you do feel about it. It may be offensive to you as you may think that you are in some holy fight to save humanity but this kind of thinking is well, delusional. You need to realize that not everyone subscribed to something which sounds more and more as some religion where nobody is allowed to fall out of a line because something something but science....

    Sorry about Ivermectin too because it is not some satans brew and if you do not believe that it may help as antiviral it is cool, but it is your opinion and same goes for opposite view.

    Moving goalposts by government or nephet during last 2 years become so common we no longer even know where they currently are.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    So this is a conversation where his position on something is shown to be wrong by someone who knows different. What's the problem here? At least it's a discussion.

    Look I don't agree with Rogan's views on the likes of Ivermectin and all that jazz, but he certainly wasn't alone going down that particular rabbithole, especially in America where every Tom Dick and Harry has a POV on absolutely everything. But I also don't think he's just some liar either, because of his mistaken position on something at a given time.

    At the same time, he's just a guy with a podcast having a conversation that you'd have down the boozer. He isn't the word of god or anything.

    But my point still remains in that his show is an actual conversation where guests can and do challenge his views. Where one comes down of the points being raised, is up to them.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    He can have whatever views he wants but moving the goalposts is a bad faith move IMO. His show and he can do whatever he wants with it of course but I'm not seeing anything to admire.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭ BruteStock

    Rogan had Elon Musk on his show 3 times. They are friends and share a lot of similar viewpoints. If these guys are your boogeyman you need to re-evaluate yourself.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,974 ✭✭✭ martingriff

    Also when he got Covis did everything he say go straight such as using experimental drugs and he got everything money could buy because in the medical business of the USA you maybe given basic help (depending on state and hospital) but if you want anything you must pay

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,401 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    Similarly, like Serkiro pointed about distrust of government a few years ago to promote new vaxes with Pfizer, we see this other contradiction flourish: "My body my choice." - except when it comes to vaccines! Now, before someone jumps on me about vaccines. I'm vaxxed, and I'm pro-vax. But I also respect people who have differing views. And you can't say there isn't a contradiction between those that were championing "my body my choice" and then berating people with vax hesitancy for not wanting to inject a quickly produced and some may say "rushed" vax.

    If you can't understand the difference between wanting bodily when it comes to reproductive rights versus potentially having a highly contagious and potentially fatal disease, I don't know what to tell you.

    It's the same reason we have laws about drunk driving, because one individuals choice is also likely to impact others.

    And as for your 'one side is arrogant and smug enough to think they are right', both sides are guilty of this. Look at the reaction to BLM protests at sports events, look at Trump trying to ban individual journalists or whole media organizations from asking questions at his press conferences. GB News cancelled a presenter who took the knee in solidarity with BLM. Conservative people have gone to quite extraordinary efforts to try silence Greta Thunberg with there even being two dedicated threads on this platform on which they ran the gamut of reasons why she should not being entertained in any way. Stop ignoring the fact that we see this happening everywhere, and have since day dot.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭ riclad

    America has free speech laws, you can say almost anything as long as you don't defame someone or threaten violence against people

    Rogan has fans cos he's funny and famous and has acess to millions famous guests , yes he's completely wrong about covid and and some medical facts . The truth is not to silence him but to allow other voices to fact check his opinions and point out how wrong he is There's a whole industry of grifters who make money by going on podcasts or making YouTube videos or tweeting ridiculous facts or fake news , the more views or people reading social media posts you have the more money you get from sponsors or fans on patron. I think cancel culture is good because it allows women and minoritys to speak out and get help or even point out the person who is being abusive or doing something wrong even if its not a criminal offence For instance to sack a woman who wants to get a week off to have a baby.

    BLM Came about because people had acess to social media and forums to talk about the cruel illegal treatment of black people by racist cops and the discrimination and violence against ordinary black people simply for driving a car or shopping in a mall.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭ riclad

    Maybe off topic, it's Been well proven vaccination works it was tested on 1000s of people the reason it was invented and produced so quickly is they use cloning cells biological 3d editing of cells and dna design techniques to make a vaccine similar to how you can use a 3d printer to make any shape if you have a blueprint of what you want to make. Of course if someone doesn't want to get vaxxed they have a serious risk of getting a deadly disease just going into a shop or buying coffee or living a normal life and of course you can pass it on to other people too

  • Tbf linehan was out of control....18 hours a day fighting online

    Ruined his personal life,it was for his own benefit i think

    Fun fact,and a real throwback....but i was briefly on the social media network he set up.....was booted off,without ever even posting😐

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    I don't even like Rogan, I think he is a fake and a damaging DMT-merchant. I don't trust him.

    I think he should be allowed to speak if others are allowed to speak. Otherwise alternative views will still exist but in secrecy. Sounds like regression to a very rigid earlier society.

    Why did CNN lie and say he taken a horse medicine when the same medicine has been prescribed for humans in billions of doses? How can these mainstream stations like CNN be the only source of info when anyone can see that they are liars?