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This whole cancel culture myth

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Boll*ox. He was egging them on for literally years. A token call for non-violence, not that I believe there was even that, changes nothing.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    Sir Tim Hunt was probably one of the earliest, and still one of the most egregious examples.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The thing with Hunt is that it really wasn't about him. Universities here are run like businesses. I've heard department heads being told that if they need money to cobble together a masters and flog it for £10,000 a year. A misogynistic dinosaur like Hunt is appalling for business. I don't know if sacking him was right but it was monumentally stupid of him to come out with what he did. He brought it on himself.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,187 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I'll answer your question with a question then explain. Sound fair?

    Have you ever said anything online from years previous that you wouldn't agree with now? Be it twitter, Facebook or even here on boards? You've grown. Your mentality has changed right? I'm on boards 10 years. I know if I go looking at my old posts from then am sure I'll squirm and go nahhhhhh. So thats the first part. Digging things up from the past. Especially when younger and more immature. Perhaps even said out of anger at one point. Things you regret. Things that were not right.

    The second part is saying something divisive right now - you don't even have to try hard these days. Perhaps you are a famous actor and say you supported trump, perhaps you say you don't like vaccines or take your pick. You are simply voicing your opinion (something you shouldn't do as a celebrity but that's a different topic) but people try and cancel you. People wanna see you black balled. People wanna see you never work a day again in your life. All because you have a different opinion to theirs. You didn't say anything that could be seen as hate speech, you simply think differently to them.

    That's the difference between 1 and 2.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,284 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    he wasn't voicing a divisive opinion on twitter or vaccines. his twitter posts were racist and misogynistic. It was not stuff that was OK then but isn't now. The stuff he posted was never OK. Well maybe 50 or 60 years ago before social media existed but that is before he was born so no excuse. if he honestly thought it was OK to post that stuff and it would never be found out he is as dumb as a box of rocks. he got what he deserved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    That seems like a very fundamentalist attitude you have there, feeling free to sum up his character on the basis of one (bad) joke...the context of which was largely ignored. He deserved everything he got because you disapprove of him, in other words.

    You're right, though, in that it's not the Twitter mob who ultimately get to do the cancelling, but people in positions of authority who their seem to terrify. One can only hope that eventually some organisation will have the spine to say something like "When we outsource our HR function to the Twitter mob, we'll let you know, until then it's none of their damned business who we employ."

    I have a problem with mob rule, whether it's pulling down careers or pulling down statues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The comments were of the 'true but awkward' variety like where he said that women sometimes cry at work.

    I was in a job where a woman employee cried in the workplace and my manager used to lie about it and say it didn't happen.

    If we can't handle someone telling the truth off the cuff about banal aspects of life, and have to fire a Nobel laureate, what does indicate about us? If our dislike of accurate observations of human nature is that stark how do we make serious progress in the sciences which are totally dependent on 100% unflinching honesty?

    Saying it was a "business decision" doesn't really restore my faith in University College London.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, they weren't. They were base misogyny and nothing more.

    UCL is one of the world's best Universities. Somehow, I think it will survive losing your faith.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    How in the blue hell is Alex Jones cancelled he is still making a mint out of what he believes or it totally made up depending on what he is trying to defending himself against. He started talking about how a school shooting was not real and everyone was a crises actor even going as so far as reveling stuff about the people to the people who were getting death threats and been harassed. What you say and do in the public can have consequences. You can't just go and say what you want about anyone and just expect them to take it.


    Would you like it if someone started saying you are a murderer or other stuff and started harassing you, your family or friends. Jones is quiet rightly seeing those consequences so much so he made the judge so mad he decided to go ahead with the trial with the only thing to decided is how much he owes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Nothing he said rose above the banal like commenting about men and women falling in love at work, basically just saying that it does happen.

    A professor from Trinity College Dublin then accused him of "suggest[ing] that labs are segregated", which he didn't do.

    He apologised but his apology was not accepted essentially so then he had to be "cancelled" (let go). Poor stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'UCL is one of the world's best Universities. Somehow, I think it will survive losing your faith.'

    Well you're the one indicating it's run along the lines of some sort of cynical corporate business, that in itself is chipping away at my regard for UCL.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Well, I'm not going to read every word he's ever written. It's almost impressive. Nobody has any idea what work he's done or what he's published. Just that he's just another grubby man who looks down on women.

    As I said in my first post in this thread, this is the consequence of turning everything into businesses. CEO's don't want aggro and so will just choose the path of least resistance. There's no gain to keeping hold of someone who thinks this sort of sh*te is ok when you're specifically looking to get more women into research and learning. It's that simple.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭Christy42


    If you want to be blunt about mental health at least get it right. I quoted more and worse tweets he had in my post. Your post was belittling what he got fired for and I pointed out there was more to it than what you stated. Especially as you mentioned it was 2 tweets specifically when there was more than that and quite frankly in my opinion worse tweets that did more damage to him than the ones you quoted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Captain Barnacles


    God you are obsessed!!!

    Your definition of "bigot" is quite broad I would say .... quite broad.

    You see Right Wingers everywhere....



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Plus I say Hartley Sawyer will go the way of Mel Gibson and make some bit of a comeback in a bit of time. Kevin Spacey has started to get work again



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    I hadn’t realised that he was that bad. I’m watching motherland, one of his, and I feel a bit icky now. I mean that’s real hate



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,601 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Bigots really do seem to hate “labels” and just want to get on with their lives. Along with hating anything that doesn’t fit in with their, extremely, narrow and angry world view, of course.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I can watch Father Ted or those shows as it is the people doing the shows who make them good not just a person.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    Yeah, I suppose so. Although I can’t believe he basically got away with baiting trans people by chatting with them on sites. Wtf was he thinking? Psychiatric intervention needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    but people try and cancel you

    This, I think, is over exaggerated. Absolutely it happens but the amount of times it does is way way less than the amount of times it is suggested it is being done. People claim that they are being cancelled now when all that is happening is someone has said that they disagree with whatever point they made or announced that they didn't like what the first person did/said?

    In terms of people bringing up something that was said earlier, no matter how far back, that happens in all walks of life. A common argument against Biden is that he introduced a bill that ultimately was unfair on people within inner city black communities. Trump called for 5 black guys to be put to death for a crime they were later found innocent of. Should neither event be brought up in the conversation about these people because they were in the past.

    The reason things are brought up, are twofold. A - It is an opportunity for the person to set the record straight, one way or another as to how they feel about something, B - it does communicate to people in the here and now that society 'generally' does not tolerate such a view anymore. Should we ignore the lessons from the past, rather than learn from them?

    In relation to saying something divisive right now and being challenged on it (not necessarily cancelled) Are people not allowed to do that? Should freedom of speech allow the first person to say something but not allow the second person to say they don't like it. If I disagree with something you have said, am I automatically trying to cancel you? Should I have to work with or engage with someone who I dislike or if I decide not to, have I cancelled them through my decision to not tolerate them for views they have chosen to hold and broadcast?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    "Nobody has any idea what work he's done or what he's published. Just that he's just another grubby man who looks down on women."

    Based on one thing he said during his whole career. Impressive Vulcan mind-meld skills there, Mr Spock. I hope you never get to serve on a jury.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Speaking of his career, do you even recall what his area of expertise was without googling it?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    From memory, something to do with chemistry. Perhaps you can point out how that's relevant?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,779 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    His area of expertise is irrelevant? I was accused of judging him based on what he said about women but I'd wager that nobody here has any idea what research he did before he said those things.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    That looks suspiciously like a pretty feeble attempt to deflect from the fact that you've made a sweeping generalisation about someone's character based on one thing he said. But I could be wrong - what other evidence do you have that indicates that he is "just another grubby man who looks down on women" and that his comments were driven by "base misogyny" rather than a poor attempt at a joke by someone in a profession not known for its social skills?

    I'm still not seeing the relevance of his profession. Because you haven't pointed it out. An injustice is an injustice, whether it's visited on a highly-qualified scientist or a shelf-stacker at the local Tesco.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Haha, you really can't answer it at all. Bit of an "own goal" there, I'm afraid, "Livia". Lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults



    If someone doesn't think his views are "against trans people", I'd suggest that they take a look at his Substack that he updates several times a day. The man's obsessed. Apart from the Father Ted musical/cash-in, does he even do comedy any more? I don't care much for the whole "cancelling" thing, btw, or the "trans issue" itself. If he wrote something genuinely funny again - even half as good as Ted, Big Train or the first series of the IT Crowd - I'd watch it. But he seems to have given up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Sounds perfect to me. Caroline stirs tea anticlockwise. #worsethanhitler



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