Faugheen- "I don't think Max is intentionally trying to take Hamilton out"
Also Faugheen in their very next post - "like Hamilton has at most of Max's attempts to crash into him"
Says it all really.
I would be pretty comfortable betting that Lewis would have won that race in a straight shootout. Max never looked faster than Lewis at any point, even on fresh meduim tyres vs Lewis on fresh hard tryes. Lewis was faster than Max at the beginning, and the whole second half of the final stint. And won the race comfortably in the end.
I don't really see any chance of a tight battle for the race win next weekend unless something happens to slow Lewis down like a safety car or crash or similar.
What sort of nonsense is that? You say Hamilton would be leading the championship but for Monza while you completely and totally ignore the 40 point swing in the championship from the absolutely appalling Mercedes driving in Britain and Hungary. Verstappen would have finished second in Silverstone only for Hamilton punting him off the track and would've got at least a podium in Hungary. And that's the championship done and dusted right there. But you don't care about that because you think Max is being mean to poor Hamilton.
I also have to laugh at the Hamilton fanboys telling everyone else to stop moaning about his dangerous manoeuvre at Silverstone while at the same time crying over Max in Brazil and Saudi - races Hamilton won anyway. Absolutely laughable. Also what about Mercedes carry on yesterday with the safety car and whinging and crying over the flag like a bunch of babies? No comment on that I suppose.
And I never said Verstappen was a saint or that Hamilton was evil - that's just pure nonsense you made up to try to support your point. He's at and goes over the limit but Hamilton is well able to do that as well.
I think a lot of the dislike for Hamilton is borne out of the nonsense we heard form him on the radio yesterday
Imola he was able to change tyres and damaged parts without losing any ground
Silverstone he was able to do the same
Red flag yesterday and he was whining about Max being able to change tyres. There is very definitely something about his demeanour where this is all a conspiracy if everyone being out to get him, he was at it in Sochi last year when he accused the stewards of being out to stop him because he couldn't be bothered to read the race directors notes.
Hamilton ran Rosberg off at Austin 2015 in the exact same Manner Max did yesterday and didn't get a penalty. There is a few other examples of him doing the same on YouTube.
Hamilton quote - Paul Ricard 2018 after Seb hit Bottas at T1
"Hamilton was pleased with his performance but critical that Vettel had not received a harsher penalty. “It’s disappointing for the team,” he said. “We all go into turn one as hard as we could but when someone destroys your race through an error and it’s only a tap on the wrist and you are still able to come back and finish ahead of the person you took out, it doesn’t add up.”
Agreed. In Formula E whenever a Full Course Yellow (VSC) is called all cars (plus the TV audience) can hear race control count the FCY in and out. But in my opinion, Massi should have told Mercedes first that he's about to tell Red Bull to tell Max to swap and then instruct Red Bull.
The problem is, when it's Hamilton aggression, or just plain old mistake or dirtiness it's always "that's racing" and it's been that way for 14 years.
Anyone else and they're a chest , or they're dangerous quietly forgetting Hamilton's chequered career*
* Even taking into account his superlative driving.
I know it's during the usual time slot for rugby, football etc. Would anywhere in Cork be showing the race on Sunday?
Yeah the Hamilton fanatics on here do seem to be really deficient in critical thinking capability.
Lewis earned a minimum 32 point swing by deliberately taking out Max at Silverstone - it was actually more than that because it also destroyed Verstappen’s engine and forced him to take a penalty later on costing him a shot at a win in Russia. It also cost the team millions in repair costs which had to come out of their development budget because of the cost cap, something that has hurt them in the late stages of the season.
Even if you’re crazy enough to think that the overtake Verstappen legitimately attempted at Monza was anything close to the level of Lewis’ disgusting behaviour at Silverstone, that literally cost Lewis nothing because both cars went out, and Max was miles ahead of Lewis in that race before then and they only ended up near each other because of the FIA rule change Mercedes demanded that led to lots of dangerous slow pitstops. Had Lewis given space like a defending car is supposed to and not turned in on top of Max, Verstappen would have got him on the exit and finished ahead in that race because he had the pace.
At no point in the entire season has Verstappen gained anything by doing anything untoward. He’s defended aggressively a couple of times, and handed the place over afterwards on each occasion. Lewis on the other hand is only still in the running because he’s a dirty driver who took his rival out and put him in the hospital and celebrated it. And even then he’d still be a long way behind if Bottas hadn’t also taken Max out for good measure the following week, something Max was only in the firing line for because Lewis had been playing games and holding him up deliberately in qualifying the day before.
It’s really hard to imagine how any neutral supporter with a modicum of morality or ethics could think Hamilton would be a deserving champion with the way he’s conducted himself this year. He’d be about as deserving a champion as Lance Armstrong or Tonya Harding.
According to Red Bull Max was only slow at the end because of tyre damage incurred when Lewis ran into the back of him, so he had to nurse the car home because all the shenanigans plus the penalty meant there wasn’t enough of a gap to Ocon.
The Mercedes was clearly the faster car, but it’s impossible to say who would have won without all the interference from the FIA. Mercedes was clearly faster in Austin and Max won. Mercedes locked out the front row in Mexico and Max won. Max was robbed of the opportunity to compete at Qatar by a penalty and Brazil was easy mode for Lewis with the new engine and trick rear wing.
Whenever there is no outside interference, collisions or tricks, Max has pretty much a 100% record for beating Lewis regardless of being in a slower car, he always makes better starts and maximises strategy to keep track position, so I wouldn’t rule out the same thing happening again for Abu Dhabi but it will certainly be difficult.
Not sure I agree but we of course don't have to :)
I still think the plan for RB was pole and then just match the Merc, the speed difference was compounded with different tires. Max was making the time up in the first sector to then compensate the DRS. He fell foul of the Virtual Safety car when it was lifted after the sector he made the most time in. Not saying he would have been able to hold onto that with the mediums, but RB had no choice really but to go on them for the restart.
I still think they are close on raw pace, had Max gotten the pole, Toto said the gap would have been 4-5 tenths, so there is still a performance balance between the two teams.
Max had zero chance of making that overtake stick at Monza, but instead of doing what a standard, experienced 7-year professional F1 driver would do, he thinks the rules don't apply to him and that everyone has to get out of his way.
Like in Brazil and Saudi, he saw he was losing out and he lost the head.
And Max gained from crashing both of them out at Monza, as Hamilton could have won that race and Max was struggling.
I don't see how anybody with eyes can, to this day, claim Hamilton intentionally tried to kill Max at Silverstone but you always ignore that when it's put to you. One of the most bizarre takes on any incident that anyone has posted on this forum.
You're deluded and a laughing stock, and then you accuse others of blind bias. The neck on you to have a go at other peoples viewpoints when you have an obsessive hatred for someone you never met to the point that you will excuse another driver for taking him out of a race and say it was fine.
And now you're comparing Hamilton to a drug cheat and someone who literally had their rival assaulted to take them out of competition? You're insane. Like, clinically insane to make those comparisons. Hamilton and Verstappen are giving it as good as they have and yet you think the fault lies with only one person every single time.
And not one of the other fools who have a bizarre hatred for Hamilton will call you out on it, yet they'll pick up on my posts just because I'm talking about Max's dirty behaviour.
What on earth is wrong with you? Where did Lewis touch you?
The Woolshed maybe?
Spot on, cheers. It's listed on their website under other sports sections.
There are a couple of pantomime posters on here regurgitating the same lines over and over again. It's getting boring at this stage.
Just on the map of Abu Dhabi posted above. Is that straight really that long ?
The main straight is c.1.2km long.
I also feel there are plenty others here with options they would like to post but not bothering because they're just going to be shouted out of it by the very same crowd you're talking about.
Favours Lewis ?
I don't think they would if they were genuinely neutral and don't lead with "I'm not a Hamilton fan but...." before writing an essay on how Verstappen tries to intentionally crash into anyone who makes a move on him.
Says the one who has excused everything Verstappen has done this season.
I will be keeping an eye on the battle for fifth in the consructors championship, something I have been doing for the last few races. Alpine who are 5th at the moment with 149 points and Alpha Tauri are 6th with 120 points. I'm hoping Alpine will hold onto 5th.
There's a lot of this about now on both sides of the fence. "I have no skin in the game here but how has Verstappen not gotten everyone killed?" type of thing. I don't know if its because they think that by saying they're not a fan they feel their opinion holds more weight because it's not formed out of bias, or if its just trolling. Either way it's annoying.
I think, either you are genuinely new to the sport and haven't watched enough to form a solid opinion, or you will have watched it a fair amount and have formed your opinions and biases. You'll know which drivers you like and you will be more kind to them in any non black and white situations(indeed, even in black and white scenarios you may accept the driver mistake but ask why another driver you don't like hasn't received the same punishment). I think if you want to have genuine discussion you probably need to accept that you can see the same situation in a completely different way to someone else.
But the majority of the discussions now are basically one person good, other person bad.
Personally, I can't stand this new pervasive attitude that Max has been so dangerous this year that when someone crashes into him, it's his own fault. It seems to be a reaction or justification to the title race being so close. I think it's fair to say he's looking more desperate in recent races as the car he's in is at its most disadvantaged against the Merc as it has been all year, but that seems to have turned into some revisionism that he's basically been like that all year and there would have been loads of other crashes if other drivers were insane like him. Most of the time he's won corners with good, aggressive driving, helped by being lightning quick off the line.
Does anyone know the exact changes to the Yas Marina circuit this year ?
Anyone seen a map showing the new layout ?
Shall we try a neutral post then and see how we get on?
I am not a Hamilton fan, or a Verstappen fan. Hamilton is a fantastic driver and an 8th championship would be an incredible achievement but I think Max has edged it this year, he would be a worthy and deserving champion and can count himself unlucky if he doesn't win it. But...
I do think Max's driving at the last couple of races and at times earlier in the season has been over the line. To assess this, and the occasions where Hamilton has been at fault too, you need to get beyond the personalities of the drivers involved and any favouritism or enmity towards them, and try to consider what is good for the sport. If drivers are allowed to defend overtakes the way Max did in Brazil, and similarly in Saudi Arabia where Max and Lewis were both guilty of it, would that encourage exciting, close, wheel-to-wheel racing, or would it make or make it even more difficult and risky than it already is? I think the latter.
Others have already commented that for such a close championship season there has been very little good on track battling between the 2 drivers, and this is because as soon as they get close on track they collide, or someone is forced to yield to avoid a collision or is run off the track. Neither is innocent in this regard but on balance I think it is more often Max who has been at fault, he is certainly the more aggressive and never seems to yield. Silverstone is sure to rankle with many, the collision was not Max's fault but he could have avoided it, let Hamilton through, and still won the race as the Red Bull was clearly faster there. If he gains that cool headedness and maturity he will be an even better driver than he already is.
I agree with a lot of this, but on the last paragraph I'd argue that Max has been like this all year. Imola, where they made contact and forced hamilton off the road, Silverstone prior to Stowe where they made contact, Spain where he forced hamilton off the road, Monza sprint where he forced hamilton off the road, Brazil where he forced Hamilton off the road. The outlier of course to this is Stowe at Silverstone, coincidentally it is the only time Max found himself on the outside of all the above moves.
I don't like either of the drivers involved, but it's not fair to say that Max hasn't been overly aggressive this season. He showed a maturity in his driving last year that has evaporated this year, enabled by Horner (who's behaviour has been disgraceful) and inconsistent penalties by the FIA.
Hamilton is the same as he's always been, when things don't go his way, its a big conspiracy to stop him. Weak at wheel to wheel racing and always capable of a brain fade moment at any opportunity.
Regardless of who wins, next Monday I'll have to get up and go to work. Max or Hamilton are not going to pay my mortgage, no matter how many 3000 word essays I write on here defending every ridiculous action taken.
Imola and Spain are the only 2 I really disagree with, that get brought up a lot. I've watched them both again and both times he's gotten his car on the inside far enough up to consider the corner his. He runs slightly wide but if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash and he would be at fault for it. When the contact happened at Silverstone, Toto was trying to argue that it was Max' fault for moving in as Lewis had been alongside him enough for him to be able to consider the corner his(but the replays showed he wasn't near enough beside him).
Since Brazil, as I've said I definitely think he's been more erratic as he tries to get some sort of foothold in each race. The FIA have almost abdicated responsibility for fear that they will wreck the title run in.
Overall though I find people are really looking for examples of him being dangerous to fuel the narrative that any and all contact he's involved in is his fault.
You are absolutely right and the key point is ' if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash'. So when Hamilton doesn't yield and Max comes off second best, lets apply the same standards.
Imola and Spain are both the same move, take a massively early apex so you purposely run wide and run out of road. I said at the time that Hamilton's mistake at Silverstone was dropping too much speed, trying to make the corner on the tighter line, when he's been given a lesson all season that the FIA consider it legal if your on the inside to just run it wide and force the guy on the outside out of road.
What Max has achieved this season is phenomenal, in what has been a slower car for most of the year, combined with unforced errors and bad strategy by Hamilton and Mercedes, but to say that he's not been over the limit with a lot of his driving this year is not exactly true. What I would like to see is some consistency by the FIA, not applying arbitrary penalties for the sake of it, and Toto and Horner to stop badgering the FIA every time something doesn't go their way.
Getting away from the Hamilton-Verstappen argument for a while:
I think Michael Masi proved in Saudi Arabia once and for all that he isn't fit to do the job and he needs to be replaced.
He may know the rule book inside out, but he's not a racer and never was. Charlie Whiting was in F1 when it evolved in to what it is today, but he always kept a handle on it. Yes there was a lot happening in Saudi, but some of his decisions there and over the past couple of years are odd.
He's very inconsistent and that's the worst accusation you can make about a sport referee/steward.