Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

There's a lot of this about now on both sides of the fence. "I have no skin in the game here but how has Verstappen not gotten everyone killed?" type of thing. I don't know if its because they think that by saying they're not a fan they feel their opinion holds more weight because it's not formed out of bias, or if its just trolling. Either way it's annoying.

I think, either you are genuinely new to the sport and haven't watched enough to form a solid opinion, or you will have watched it a fair amount and have formed your opinions and biases. You'll know which drivers you like and you will be more kind to them in any non black and white situations(indeed, even in black and white scenarios you may accept the driver mistake but ask why another driver you don't like hasn't received the same punishment). I think if you want to have genuine discussion you probably need to accept that you can see the same situation in a completely different way to someone else.

But the majority of the discussions now are basically one person good, other person bad.

Personally, I can't stand this new pervasive attitude that Max has been so dangerous this year that when someone crashes into him, it's his own fault. It seems to be a reaction or justification to the title race being so close. I think it's fair to say he's looking more desperate in recent races as the car he's in is at its most disadvantaged against the Merc as it has been all year, but that seems to have turned into some revisionism that he's basically been like that all year and there would have been loads of other crashes if other drivers were insane like him. Most of the time he's won corners with good, aggressive driving, helped by being lightning quick off the line.

Shall we try a neutral post then and see how we get on?

I am not a Hamilton fan, or a Verstappen fan. Hamilton is a fantastic driver and an 8th championship would be an incredible achievement but I think Max has edged it this year, he would be a worthy and deserving champion and can count himself unlucky if he doesn't win it. But...

I do think Max's driving at the last couple of races and at times earlier in the season has been over the line. To assess this, and the occasions where Hamilton has been at fault too, you need to get beyond the personalities of the drivers involved and any favouritism or enmity towards them, and try to consider what is good for the sport. If drivers are allowed to defend overtakes the way Max did in Brazil, and similarly in Saudi Arabia where Max and Lewis were both guilty of it, would that encourage exciting, close, wheel-to-wheel racing, or would it make or make it even more difficult and risky than it already is? I think the latter.

Others have already commented that for such a close championship season there has been very little good on track battling between the 2 drivers, and this is because as soon as they get close on track they collide, or someone is forced to yield to avoid a collision or is run off the track. Neither is innocent in this regard but on balance I think it is more often Max who has been at fault, he is certainly the more aggressive and never seems to yield. Silverstone is sure to rankle with many, the collision was not Max's fault but he could have avoided it, let Hamilton through, and still won the race as the Red Bull was clearly faster there. If he gains that cool headedness and maturity he will be an even better driver than he already is.

Imola and Spain are the only 2 I really disagree with, that get brought up a lot. I've watched them both again and both times he's gotten his car on the inside far enough up to consider the corner his. He runs slightly wide but if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash and he would be at fault for it. When the contact happened at Silverstone, Toto was trying to argue that it was Max' fault for moving in as Lewis had been alongside him enough for him to be able to consider the corner his(but the replays showed he wasn't near enough beside him).

Since Brazil, as I've said I definitely think he's been more erratic as he tries to get some sort of foothold in each race. The FIA have almost abdicated responsibility for fear that they will wreck the title run in.

Overall though I find people are really looking for examples of him being dangerous to fuel the narrative that any and all contact he's involved in is his fault.

You are absolutely right and the key point is ' if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash'. So when Hamilton doesn't yield and Max comes off second best, lets apply the same standards.

Imola and Spain are both the same move, take a massively early apex so you purposely run wide and run out of road. I said at the time that Hamilton's mistake at Silverstone was dropping too much speed, trying to make the corner on the tighter line, when he's been given a lesson all season that the FIA consider it legal if your on the inside to just run it wide and force the guy on the outside out of road.

What Max has achieved this season is phenomenal, in what has been a slower car for most of the year, combined with unforced errors and bad strategy by Hamilton and Mercedes, but to say that he's not been over the limit with a lot of his driving this year is not exactly true. What I would like to see is some consistency by the FIA, not applying arbitrary penalties for the sake of it, and Toto and Horner to stop badgering the FIA every time something doesn't go their way.

You see, we don't really know that. We've only been introduced to the team radio to Race control this year. The closest we've ever seen as to how Charlie operated was when cameras rolled in the drivers meetings a few years back. For all we know, the umming and ahhhing happened under Charlie as well and who can forget when Seb basically told Charlie to eff off over the radio. There was a very good debate over this by the BBC team on the Chequered Flag podcast that's worth checking out.

McLaren to use a modified livery this weekend:

Mercedes sponsorship with Kingspan has been terminated.

“Mercedes end controversial £4m-a-year deal with Grenfell firm”

https://mol.im/a/10285663

Not fair play to them for putting theie money where their mouth is on the issue they can control? Mercedes has influence but they don't decide where they race, but they do decide their own sponsors.

Dare I suggest a little honourable mention to Lewis? Well see what they say later.

Petronas? Malaysian govt owned company. A country with a fairly poor human rights record. A company for whom Hamilton appears in an advert for and has no problem promoting

Y'all want to talk about dodgy sponsors?

Ferrari and McLaren are still sponsored by nicotine suppliers, the Red Bull energy drink can cause cardiac issues if over consumed, all those fancy stats sponsored by a multi billionaire who flies his 🍆 into space, Haas being taken over by Russians and before that possibly the most contentious sponsor in the history of Formula 1. Rich Energy.

Exactly - practically nobody in this part of the world gives a **** about Malaysia, and have no direct experience of what happens in Saudi etc. But the F1 circus and the media that covers it is completely and totally UK centric in the way everything is reported, and Grenfell is a major UK issue, so that's why Mercedes have backed down to public pressure in this instance as the PR damage is not worth the monetary gain. If enough of a stink is kicked up about other sponsors, they would also be dropped. But if the sponsorship money outweighs the PR damage, there is literally nobody they wouldn't take money from.

You should probably look into the accusations against Kingspan. Very serious if true.

Ya the kingspan line is that they didn't design any of the systems in the tower and that their product was used without their knowledge in a small percentage of the facade.

They don't mention the fraudulent certification of their products and their company attitude around that.

For a company like Mercedes to walk blindly into this PR disaster would suggest that they didn't do even the most basic due diligence prior to signing up.

As for kingspan, being dropped like this must be the ultimate advertising disaster.