Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2021/2022 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

  • 29-11-2021 3:01pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Mod Note


    This thread is for posting/discussing/analyzing FI CHARTS ONLY i.e. Charts in the unreliable time frame, generally long range +T120 onward for Winter 2021/2022.


    If your post does not specifically relate to a Fantasy Island chart (extended long range charts) then it doesn't belong here - Off topic posts will be moved or deleted.


    Thanks

    With only a day left in Autumn I thought it would be a good idea to open the Winter FI Extended Range Thread a day early since all FI charts are December based.

    After a very mild and dry Autumn how is the first few weeks of Winter shaping up in the run up to Christmas?

    We finally ended the very prolonged unbroken streak of very mild weather with a chilly weekend. This cold air has now shifted to our east and we are briefly back into mild Atlantic air once again till about Wednesday.

    The next 2 weeks look set to alternate between brief mild south westerlies and cooler zonal north-westerlies. For now everything looks mostly Atlantic driven but there are hints that we could get a cold spell around the middle of December.

    The GFS 06z tries to raise the heights over Scandinavia but nothing really comes of it.

    We finish up on 15th December looking on the cool side and fairly unsettled.

    The Control run in extended range is more successful at raising the heights over Scandinavia and we start to drag in really chilly air from the east from the middle of December in the run up towards Christmas. Very unlikely to verify but hopefully we will see more GFS runs run with this idea over the next 2 weeks.

    This does get -10C uppers into the country in a very chilly airflow.

    The cold air stays with us till about the 22nd of December and then a battleground situation between the Atlantic and the colder air to our east leaves Ireland fairly mild for Christmas. All of these charts are of course in the completely unreliable timeframe but I thought it would be nice to open the Winter FI Thread with something seasonal. I feel much of December will alternate between mild and cool with nothing too extreme in terms of cold. At the same time I think the excessively mild domination that we saw throughout Autumn has ended it's run and December could well end up being a fairly average month in terms of temperatures.

    Post edited by Gonzo on


«13456714

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GEM 12z hints at an easterly towards the end of it's run. Unfortunately on this run Ireland is just too far west to tap into the real cold and snow. Wouldn't take much of an adjustment to bring us into a cold unstable easterly.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    CFS 06z also has an easterly for same time period as the GEM, just that this also includes Ireland in the firing line for some cold and possibly snow.

    This cold easterly doesn't last long but interesting to see both GEM and CFS cooling things down considerably by the end of the first week of December.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    ECM following suit! Hopefully a sauced up pub run rescues the GFS!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The ECM not as cold as the GEM or the CFS but it's looking promising. Once we get tomorrows mild weather out of the way, the ECM has us colder than average from Wednesday right up to the end of the run at 240 hours.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ECM 12Z looks very interesting with a series of slider Lows moving into the cold air over Ireland. Very cold and wintry looking on the prediction charts with frosty nights. Very wet on the latest run for the SW and Southern half of the country.







  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ECM and GEM showing the Storm again for around next Tuesday, UKMO at the earlier stages of development looks like following the ECM and GEM. GFS and ICON not showing it. Time will tell.


    Continues with the cool theme, possibly wintry and blustery at times.







  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭almostthere12


    The 18z CFS run gives the Scandinavian high and the easterly comes into play at +150. Outlier at the moment but the more reliable charts are all over the place anyway so I am going with this one!! 😎



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    Yeah, just looked at the CFS, and will post in more detail on the White Christmas thread, but it basically has a very wintry set up for two weeks from next Tuesday - i.e. 6 Dec until about 20 Dec. Then it is milder for the run in to, and the day of, Christmas, but by Stephen's day we start off another extended cold spell. I'd take that.....



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    CFS 06z is back to zonal dominance. Each run chops and changes like crazy from as soon as 120 hours out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    All aboard 🚆



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Interesting spill of cold air down from Scandinavia PokeHerKing and it has been very cold there now for some time.

    Cold Easterlies at the end of the ECM 12Z, some cold days in there and very frosty nights. GFS much more zonal. ???





  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58



    Re the deep area of LP / storm that has been showing up around next Tuesday : ECM 12Z taking a Southerly route and missing Ireland, showing a very wintry day over Ireland.

    UKMO 12Z clipping the SW, S coasts with strong winds, dump of snow further North.

    GFS 12Z was further North and missing Ireland on earlier runs but now showing making contact and very windy on the latest 12Z

    GEM further North, windy over Ireland but not extreme.

    ICON 12Z has a deepening area of LP approaching

    So a big spread but something knocking about in the neighborhood.







  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭pauldry


    GFS now picking the storm up

    It wasn't there on the pub run



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I feel the next few weeks may begin to trend slightly milder and more stormy with a very active jetsteam. Models are still up in the air from next week but I feel we're in for a typical run up to Christmas with very Atlantic driven setup with the PV becoming very strong at least for a while.

    GEM has the storm right over us next Tuesday:

    This is followed a few days later by another possible storm.

    The other models keep the above storm more towards Iceland rather than dropping south near Ireland/UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭esposito


    Ah yes, the inevitable milder stormy spell is almost upon us thanks to the strengthening PV which ruins most of our winters for us coldies. Hopefully this won’t last too long and we’ll get a major change to blocking/colder come late December but luck is never really on our side is it so not holding out much hope.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I am hoping the turn to a very mobile and potentially stormy period over the next few weeks will only last 2 to 3 weeks tops before a more seasonal change around Christmas or the final week of December.

    GFS 12z really looks quite nasty for next week.

    The GFS 12z also now picking up on the second storm shown in this mornings Gem run.

    We finish up with a battleground scenario between a Scandi High and a raging jetstream with more storms to our north-west.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    ECM 12z delivers a battering on Tuesday.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭pad199207


    That’s GFS and ECM both showing this over or near Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,958 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I could be wrong, but i suspect we will see it diluted on future ECM and UKMO runs.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z showing up 3 potential storms over the next 10 days with southern and western coasts taking a battering.

    The one on Monday night/Tuesday looks fairly nasty and could feature quite a bit of rain with it too.

    Gusts up to 100km/hour across most of the country.

    Saturday 11th of December could be the second storm with another very windy day.

    Gusts over 100km/h if this verifies.

    Sunday 13th could also be quite stormy on southern coasts.

    A 3rd potentially nasty storm around the 16th of December.

    If all the above verifies we could be in for a very stormy and wet December and relatively mild most of the time.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Almost a week into Winter now how are things looking in the run up to Christmas? Right now the models are in a great state of uncertainty as the wind/storm event on Tuesday is causing alot of problems in terms of where do we go next. At the moment it looks like we have a relatively cool and unsettled week to come with regular bouts of wind, rain and showers. Temperatures at night may get low enough for some patchy frost during the week if skies clear and winds die off.


    We may get another very windy spell around next weekend or early into the following week. Everything after this Tuesday is rather uncertain so difficult to pinpoint when the next storm will happen.

    The GFS is looking at a big lift up in temperatures for next week starting from about the 13th of December as an area of high pressure moves up from the south or south-west. If this happens we should turn alot drier and far more settled. On paper we should turn alot milder too, however if this high pressure sits right over us and skies clear, it could become very cool to cold with frost and fog keeping temperatures at ground level much lower than the upper air temperatures suggest. If the high pressure ends up producing lots of cloud and spots of drizzle then temperatures on the surface may be average or higher than average.

    On the GFS 12z the high never really sits over us and the high instead ridges towards Scandinavia, drawing up very mild south-westerlies over Ireland in the run up to Christmas.

    We finish up on 21 December still fairly dry but there are signs that the Siberian High over northern Russia will march westwards perhaps merging with the Scandinavian high.

    Once we get Tuesdays wind event out of the way, we may have a better idea of what the weather will be in the run up to Christmas. These charts could look very different in a few days time.

    Post edited by Gonzo on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The ECM 12z is fairly similar to the GFS but is potentially stormy on Tuesday 14th December.

    ECM finishes up wiht another potential storm on it's way. At the same time the Siberian High over Russia is beginning to march westwards...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Atm it looks like once we get the more unsettled Atlantic driven pattern out of the way ,high pressure will become more dominate in the run up to Xmas.

    If there is for example any chance of a decent cold spell before this month is out ,it will probably have to get mild first of all as can often be the case with winds coming up from a mild direction. Then hoping for high pressure to align into decent position thereafter.....

    So in other words a mild and mostly dry run up to Xmas with a chance of something much colder during the last week of the month would be my best guess atm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Think once Tuesdays storm is out of the way we can focus on Christmas as there appears very little weather-wise on the horizon after that bar mild bland and sometimes breezy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    It's looking like a fairly quiet period to come once we get the next few chilly and unsettled days out of the way. We will either get a flat westerly, warm south-westerly or an area of high pressure moving over us in the run up to Christmas. Christmas to New Years week is possibly when things will start to change and become more seasonal.

    The sort of charts we're seeing on the ECM and GFS at the moment are very similar to what CFS was predicting over a month ago. Latest CFS see's no change in it's recent output for the run up to Christmas, mostly mild and becoming dryer as we move into Christmas. Turns colder after Christmas and first week of January see's the first easterly. From early January to mid March we alternate between mild, cool and cold with easterlies and northerlies from time to time but the Atlantic always having a go at getting rid of the cold, so a bit of a battleground. This seems fairly realistic so our chances of getting some cold and snow does seem a bit higher this winter, but at the same time it may be a bit much to expect a January 1987, February 1963 and March 2018 all in the one winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭esposito


    That's fine Gonzo. I'll be expecting a February 1991 then 😉

    Latest EC 46 just out has HP over us for Christmas so possibility of frosty weather.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭pad199207




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,958 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It certainly seems from the EC46 that the proposed block after Mid December is going to be around for a while! Also the UKMO long range forecast, as well as GFS extended, has suggested things settling down in the second half of December too.

    Even if we do get a mild high, we should get cold and frosty nights. Also sometimes the precursor to something colder is a mild high at first which leads to more robust blocking to the North East. A cold and frosty Christmas would be much better than a conveyor belt of lows off the Atlantic.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    It's looking more and more likely we are heading into a very quiet and settled period in the run up to Christmas. Cool/chilly and unsettled over the next 3 to 4 days and then a big lift up in upper air temperatures taking place from this weekend and into next week as winds switch into a mild or very mild south-westerly direction.


    Turning potentially much dryer from next week as a big area of high pressure will ridge from the south as the Azores High will try to link up with a Scandinavian High. The placement of this high will be critical to how temperatures respond on the surface. warm air advection may also take place and this could also determine how mild we will get next week.

    GEM is almost idential to the ECM with a Scandi high developing next week and very warm uppers across Ireland and the UK.

    Cloud cover or clear skies would play a big part in how mild or how cold we get. If we get clear skies then night frosts and fog could form causing ground temperatures to be much lower than the upper air temperatures suggest, but if this ends up being a cloudy high with warm southerly winds then we would remain very mild on the surface.

    GFS also going for a scandi high to develop next week.

    Temperatures by next Friday also set to be significantly above average by next weekend. Temperatures of 14 or 15C a real possibility.

    Where the high goes after this is the great unknown. Will the high get flattened off and back into Russia with the Atlantic coming back or will the high move even further northwards allowing a chilly easterly to form?

    After a chilly and unsettled week, a settled and milder week will be most welcome.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,958 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    As long as it does not become a Bartlett! The EC46 looks blocked out to week 3. If a big block does persist beyond Christmas it may have a positive effect on the pv eventually. By positive I mean weakening it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Potential for some very mild days ahead, at least it will feel like it shortens the winter



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭esposito


    Wrong month for very mild temperatures 🙄 Can we get lucky for once? Usually the high stays close to us and then just sinks allowing the westerlies to take over 🙄 Rant over 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Its looking like a Euro high and lets face it, we all know a Euro high is not going to drift north and will most likely stay put for weeks on end.

    I’ll take a balmy 14c southerly with windows open and nice lenticulars over wind and rain any day so a 1988/89 winter may not be a bad thing really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Me too. Couldn't sleep the other night for the cold 13 or 14c will be most welcome. Especially if it stops the daily rains.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    Good old pub run.




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭almostthere12


    This morning's run looks good as well, -8 uppers over Ireland for Christmas Eve and the big day itself (well early morning anyway).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Only 360 hours to go, what could possibly go wrong 😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭almostthere12


    Bah humbug.......6z doesn't quite make it but at least something to keep an eye on!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I think we will see more interesting charts for Christmas develop over the next few days hopefully. A definite rapid cooling trend is beginning to show up now with the GFS as it may turn much colder around Christmas or during the week between Christmas and New Years Day. Fingers crossed this comes to something for us.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Yes heights attacking the PV from both sides and we still only end up with 0 degrees 850s!

    Still though, massive potential starts to build from the not so crazy FI timeline, so tickets bought and fingers crossed!



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I think there will be numerous attempts of blocking over the next 3 to 4 months so several chances of tapping into real cold, however Ireland is a tiny area surrounded by water that is too far west and getting the cold with instability to line up perfectly for us takes alot of luck and several tries usually. All we need is one of them to line up perfectly for us between now and end of February and it would make this winter a success.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    It's definitely a pattern emerging the last few runs with the large blocking high attempting to make a move north west to more favourable positions to unleash cold. As with the 6z, the 12z is a case of nearly - but the high collapses back over us. It's been a dull few weeks for coldies and model watching but there's finally a bit of interest starting to crop up in the reaches of FI again.

    GEM 12z making the same attempts but we stop at Day 10.

    Not sure where this all fits in with teleconnections/background signals, I'll leave that for someone else to discuss...



  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Snowbiee21


    White Christmas anybody?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    I am waiting to see myself on how everything evolves as there's nothing 100% to suggest to me that we'll see wave breaking occur during mid to late December with possibility of a high latitude block setting up by January time whether Greenland or Scandinavia. The MJO is projected to slowly move through a decently strong amplified phase 7-8 progression path. La Niña winters with phase 8 MJO are typified by a negative NAO signal so increased risk of Greenland blocking there.

    Meanwhile further aloft, the stratospheric polar vortex (SPV) continues to rage with stronger than normal zonal mean zonal winds in the upper strat. A weakening is forecast but this is expected to bring the winds back towards their climatological average than anything and we are coming up to the most active time of year for the SPV anyway so average is strong. So if there was to be any blocking any time soon, it wouldn't be stratosphere related and would entirely be the result of external drivers like the MJO/tropical amplification. There has been some suggestion I've seen that a strong SPV would cancel out any chance of a -NAO or "traditional impacts" of a phase 8 MJO La Niña which I am not sure whether to believe or not, as never heard of the stratosphere affecting the MJO - I've heard about the opposite before and makes sense as particular phases correlate with Ural blocking or Aleutian troughing which disrupt the SPV.

    Anyway we'll see... the trend is for an anticyclonic period starting later next week and maybe for a while after that too if the long range is correct. Any possibility of frost will depend on where the high sits. If it sits to the east/southeast of the country, Ireland would likely be in a southerly to southwesterly flow with mild and cloudy conditions - we seen this very pattern in late December 2018 and 2019. If it's more over the country, the chance increases with possibility of inversions under windless conditions (what some like to call "faux cold") and wouldn't it be very 2021 to end on a calm note?



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Tony Manero




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭sicknotexi


    Another near snorter from the pub run tonight. Things are looking interesting at least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭icesnowfrost


    it’s a tease at this stage but something ill be watching with excitement. Slight adjustment is all that’s needed to put us in the freezer for Christmas



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    CFS 6z turns us very cold after Christmas and places us in the freezer for first week of January and again later in January with an even colder freeze up. The GFS keeps us high and dry keeping the proper cold limited to the eastern half of Europe with Scandinavia and Greece turning bitterly cold over the next few weeks. Hopefully the GFS will trend more towards todays CFS.


    CFS has us high and dry up to about the 27th of December and quite chilly from frost/fog. The high begins to move towards Iceland/Greenland as we head towards New Year Eve.

    By New Years Eve winds are biting in from the east with -10C uppers heading westwards across Ireland.

    January 2nd looks rather unsettled and bitterly cold, Potential for plenty of snow and blizzard conditions in places.

    It remains cold and snowy up to the 6th of January and then a possible Storm Emma style situation as a low tries to move in across Ireland to introduce milder air but we remain on the cold side with winds screeching in from a bitter continent driving bands of snow across Ireland.


    The milder air eventually wins out by January 10th but not for long on this particular run as there is another bitter freeze up occurring one week later which if if verified would be brutal cold.

    Fingers, toes and everything else crossed that we will at least get one of these freeze ups for January.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Can't post charts for some reason, but a ssw is on the cards according to the gfs.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Not sure I'm finding any SSW on the GFS. There does appear to be a slight to medium warming occurring over Russia in the run up to Christmas but compared to a SSW it's very weak in comparison. For an SSW you would need the warming to be in the red colours, particularly the darker reds towards the core. In this chart we only have the yellows. It is a warming but not a warming which would displace or split the PV in 2.

    On a completely different note it looks as if the next 10 days will be mostly dry if not completely dry in some places. There is some rain due tomorrow but after that we will be high and dry until either the Atlantic comes back or we get an unstable cold plunge after Christmas. If neither of those happens we could be completely dry till 2022 if the high pressure sticks around for several weeks.

    I hope we're not spending the next two to 3 weeks chasing high pressure watching cold unstable plunges go everywhere except Ireland. At the moment all options are on the table and even Christmas Day itself is far from decided upon. The CFS is still playing around with a cold north-easterly around Christmas and some GEM and GFS members also turn us bitterly cold from around Christmas. The majority of the model runs keeps us high and dry until the new year so let's hope for once we get luck on our side and get a direct hit from a very unstable and bitter setup over at some stage over the next month.



  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement